State to take closer look at tolls on I-93

TEA-21, the current federal funding allocation, ends in about a year, after which a new bill and new rules will take place. Tolls are the wave of the future, which everyone in DC pretty much realizes. There are already tolls being imposed on expressways that were built originally with funds from the Feds. "Congestion pricing" tolls are being placed on car pool lanes in several parts of the country.

The Federal gas tax funded trust fund is going into a deficit situation soon for the first time in its history. Tolls will be used to close the funding gap.
 
TEA-21, the current federal funding allocation, ends in about a year, after which a new bill and new rules will take place. Tolls are the wave of the future, which everyone in DC pretty much realizes. There are already tolls being imposed on expressways that were built originally with funds from the Feds. "Congestion pricing" tolls are being placed on car pool lanes in several parts of the country.

The Federal gas tax funded trust fund is going into a deficit situation soon for the first time in its history. Tolls will be used to close the funding gap.

Charlie, I respectfully disagree. The shortfall in the highway trust fund is due largely to a drop in gas and diesel fuel consumption from the projected levels made back in the day of $2 or less gas. (Its also due to the Federal tax (18+ cents a gallon) being constant for the past 15 years, while the total of yearly funding grants to the states steadily increased.)

The gasoline tax shortfall can only become worse with gas nearing $4 a gallon. And this shortfall will not be made up by tolls. As nearly 3 cents of the Federal gas tax is siphoned off to fund mass transit programs, and given current demand for mass transit, Congress will be more inclined to increase the Federal tax to fund more mass transit grants, rather than keeping all the Federal tax strictly for highways. IMO, the extent of the shortfall at both the Federal and state levels can only be made up by raising fuel taxes.

I still have doubts about a state's unilateral ability to introduce new tolls on previously free Federally financed interstates. California is rebuilding the Bay Bridge, an extremely expensive seismic retrofit. You would think that California might have gotten some Federal funds to help defray the cost: not so; a third is being funded by special state bonds, a third by a toll surcharge on all Bay area bridges, a third by state fuel tax receipts.

BTW, the Golden Gate bridge is proposing to increase the toll to $6 (for a two axle vehicle) next year, and is looking at additional peak hour pricing surcharges, both weekday and weekend. Nice to have a monopoly on routing (which is not the case in Massachusetts, can you imagine the volume at the Allston tolls at $6 a pop?).
 
Los Angeles was recently given a large sum of money (which new york lost) to make their HOV lanes into toll lanes. They have an extensive, high quality system of HOV lanes which include segments which are two lanes wide for entering and exiting.

Miami is planning on repainting the I-95 with narrow lanes to add a enw toll lane, as well as make the current HOV lane a toll.

I hate the idea of getting rid of the HOV lane, but unfortunately it is the future.


Also, new york bridges charge around 5$ to get into the Manhattan.
 
The Port Authority now charges $8 to drive from NJ into NYC. The most recent increase is supposedly to finance future new construction projects.

As for converting HOV lanes into HOT lanes, the rationale for doing so may be undercut by $4 or $5 a gallon gasoline, which is likely to increase the number of HOV users as carpooling increases.
 
I've always wondered why we don't have a more extensive system of HOV lanes, particularly on I-90. This would not only encourage carpooling, but would be a huge boon for the MBTA buses that use the highways. If you wanted to make them HOT lanes some or all of the time, that would be fine too.
 
The way I understand it, I-93 South used to be closed every morning, during rush hour. The only ways into the city from the North were over the Tobin Bridge, the tunnels, or Route 99. This was true until the mid-1970's?

Well, I'd think closing down I-93 south during the morning rush hour would be equivalent to the MWRA shutting down Deer Island during the Super Bowl halftime. but I found this tidbit on Bostonroads.com

The final three-mile section of I-93 was completed on February 1, 1973 to little fanfare, but plenty of derision. Initially, full use of the highway was delayed because of an apparent engineering oversight that created a potentially hazardous situation where drivers from right-hand lanes sought to make left-hand exits.

http://www.bostonroads.com/roads/northern/

I'll assume "full use of the highway was delayed" meant lane closures or restrictions during rush hour. I do recall the Tobin shutting down for several weeks in late 1973 after a southbound section collapsed on the Charlestown side. This forced northeast commuters to use the tunnels and route 99. It must have been a boomtime for Mike's Donut's in Everett.
 
I've always wondered why we don't have a more extensive system of HOV lanes, particularly on I-90. This would not only encourage carpooling, but would be a huge boon for the MBTA buses that use the highways. If you wanted to make them HOT lanes some or all of the time, that would be fine too.


At a minimum, the Pike should get a zipper lane like the SE Expressway. I only drive in to town on rare occasions (today being one of them) and am always amazed that the Pike Authority does nothing to alleviate the morning traffic bottlenecks, like 14 (or whatever) inbound toll booths feeding into a three lane overpass at 128, or the congestion that backs up the Pike all the way from some of the Newton exits to 128.
 
Dusting this forum off…
Now that we can slap EZ pass gantries anywhere, I have a politically savvy idea. We could start tolling N-S 93 drivers while lowering tolls a for E-W 90 drivers. This raises revenue while making burbers fight each other.
 
Dusting this forum off…
Now that we can slap EZ pass gantries anywhere, I have a politically savvy idea. We could start tolling N-S 93 drivers while lowering tolls a for E-W 90 drivers. This raises revenue while making burbers fight each other.

Why 93 and not 95? Tolling 93 only hurts people who live due north of the city or in Boston proper, a pretty small fraction of the metro area geographically and definitely an urban population moreso than “burbers”.
 
Why 93 and not 95? Tolling 93 only hurts people who live due north of the city or in Boston proper, a pretty small fraction of the metro area geographically and definitely an urban population moreso than “burbers”.
Every expressway inside Rte. 128, plus Storrow Drive, should be tolled, with the revenues totally dedicated to new rail transit extensions.
 
You can’t just put up new tolls on existing Interstates. FHWA won’t allow it. Plenty of states have tried and failed.

There are some limited circumstances where it is allowed (e.g., new tolls on new additional lanes, dedicated tolls for a finite period to fund major rehabilitation of the road that is being tolled, etc.) but you have to meet pretty strict Federal requirements. A state DOT can’t just slap up new tolls on an Interstate and think the Federal DOT won’t notice and stop them.
 
Every expressway inside Rte. 128, plus Storrow Drive, should be tolled, with the revenues totally dedicated to new rail transit extensions.

Can't do that - toll revenue can only be used specifically for that particular road.
 
You can’t just put up new tolls on existing Interstates. FHWA won’t allow it. Plenty of states have tried and failed.

There are some limited circumstances where it is allowed (e.g., new tolls on new additional lanes, dedicated tolls for a finite period to fund major rehabilitation of the road that is being tolled, etc.) but you have to meet pretty strict Federal requirements. A state DOT can’t just slap up new tolls on an Interstate and think the Federal DOT won’t notice and stop them.

This caught me by surprise because l was under the same impression, but the Feds will allow/ potentially pay for existing general purpose lanes to be converted to HOT if certain hoops are jumped through. HOT lanes on the SE Xway have been studied by MassDOT in the past and outright running afoul of FHWA was determined not to be an issue (meeting those hoops could still be enough to prevent installation though).

EDIT: That said, the 100% correct and prudent installation of tolls at the border with NH is still unfortunately a no go.
 
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You can’t just put up new tolls on existing Interstates. FHWA won’t allow it. Plenty of states have tried and failed.

There are some limited circumstances where it is allowed (e.g., new tolls on new additional lanes, dedicated tolls for a finite period to fund major rehabilitation of the road that is being tolled, etc.) but you have to meet pretty strict Federal requirements. A state DOT can’t just slap up new tolls on an Interstate and think the Federal DOT won’t notice and stop them.
Yeah, I pretty much knew that, but Congres and the White House should start moving on changing the law. Transit funds are short nationally, and a change in the law along these lines would serve well the construction of transit routes in a lot of metro areas.
 
Yeah, I pretty much knew that, but Congres and the White House should start moving on changing the law. Transit funds are short nationally, and a change in the law along these lines would serve well the construction of transit routes in a lot of metro areas.

Even assuming for the sake of argument that a policy change along these lines is a good idea, the time to attempt it was two years ago, not now, because right now there's zero chance of it happening. Not when you have an incoming GOP majority in the House that's still reflexively anti-tax, usually anti-transit, and with a big strain of political-ideological disdain for (blue-leaning) metro areas and a concomitant desire to 'punish' the same. Not to mention the fact the (substantially more bipartisan) Congressional tendency to heavily preference road vehicles over transit (which, to be fair, does tend to reflect a good chunk of the views of many constituencies). I don't know to what extent the administration could effect changes without legislative action, and even if there's some room for them to do so, I wouldn't expect to see much on account of that being where things get messy (stretching the definitions of what laws permit is one thing, i.e. when Massport has to haggle with the feds about what they can use the airport dollars on in terms of transit service to Logan, but wholesale policy changes tend to be where the courts get ornery about the White House doing Congress's job...and where the smarter administrations accordingly tread carefully.)

As a sidebar, I'm not entirely certain I agree that it's necessarily a good change to be made, at least from the federal perspective. Allowing states a lot of leeway to put up tolls on interstates opens up a lot of currently-unavailable wiggle room for shenanigans, as well as imposing direct economic costs on users. You can limit shenanigans if the feds say "you can put tolls, but can't exempt or discount in-state users", which would keep, say, Maine and NH from mooching off MA vacationers, or keep New York from socking it to commuters from NJ and CT (though they already manage that fine with the MTA and the Port Authority, some would say). Problem with that is that it screws anyone in your state who regularly uses the road you've now slapped big extra costs on. If the federal perspective is that the interstate highways are supposed to be (notionally, anyway) facilitators of interstate commerce, allowing the states to toll them for their own purposes kind of goes against that basic federal purpose. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea if a federal policy was "we're going to federally toll the interstates, to fund additional transit priorities and encourage more-efficient transportation methods", but that would require that the feds a.) decide to do that (see the political quandary discussed above) and b.) didn't appropriate the funds for other pet projects (and this is Congress we're talking about).

On the other hand, if we move away from the federal entanglements that make dealing with the interstates a problem, it's certainly a very interesting idea to discuss the idea of tolling some of our own state (and local) routes as a proto-road pricing endeavor (or, you know, full-on road pricing wherever Washington's preemptions don't make doing so legally dubious absent "cue the flying pigs"-level Congressional action) and mandatory-linking that to transit funding. Might be more successful than the ill-fated attempt to fund transportation priorities with a gas tax increase, especially if it's planned out well (i.e. you don't clog every street from Leverett Circle to Kenmore because you set the price too high on Storrow), something that goes double if you limit it to specific arteries (and therefore can dodge the worst of the surveillance concerns).
 
Every expressway inside Rte. 128, plus Storrow Drive, should be tolled, with the revenues totally dedicated to new rail transit extensions.

Maybe. But the poster I was responding to was specifically trying to siphon money from “burbers”. Putting tolls on every road inside 128 will overwhelmingly hurt city-dwellers more so than suburbanites.
 
Maybe. But the poster I was responding to was specifically trying to siphon money from “burbers”. Putting tolls on every road inside 128 will overwhelmingly hurt city-dwellers more so than suburbanites.
I would love to see numbers on that.
Also, I’m okay with tolls going to fix the respective tolled roads. It means we can steer previously highway targeted MassDOT money to transit instead of highways.
 

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