Suffolk Downs Casino?

with 2 casino's, i don't think we are exactly tailoring our economy towards gambling.

Ct has casinos, and is also in the top 3 wealthy states. Their economy isn't gambling.

We have been focusing our economy on the future. Perhaps you heard of the film tax credit? maybe the Life Sciences bill? Its not like we are ending all these and trying to convert MA into one of the nations top gaming destinations.

We already live with the social costs of gaming, yet are receiving 0 benefits. Twin river is a 50 minute drive, roughly what it would take me to get to Suffolk Downs give or take 10 minutes, and Foxwoods is only another 40 after that.

I could go either way on Casino's in MA, but some of you are making it seem like MA is going to explode into a detroit/AC if casinos are passed.
 
I could also argue that for every one idiot dumb enough to gamble his life away and get thrown out on the street, another person can get a job and not get evicted. To me the greatest perk is the jobs it will create. Restuarants and hotels have plenty of dead end jobs, too. I don't hear anyone complain about them.
 
palindrome said:
I could go either way on Casino's in MA, but some of you are making it seem like MA is going to explode into a Detroit/AC if casinos are passed.
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I'm not worried so much about the State. I'm plenty worried about my community.
 
Shepard said:
So which is it, traffic or degenerates?
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The lion's share of my concerns are about traffic, and its direct impact on the quality of life in the communities that surround Suffolk Downs. The current road infrastructure (in piss-poor condition) was overtaxed during the first Reagan administration. A casino on this site will only exacerbate the existing problems.

I also don't buy into the concept that casinos in Massachusetts will pull us out of our current fiscal mud-puddle, but that's just table-stakes.

I make no value-judgments about people who gamble, unless their conduct harms their family, and their ability to sustain themselves as functioning members of society.
 
Beton Brut said:
The lion's share of my concerns are about traffic, and its direct impact on the quality of life in the communities that surround Suffolk Downs. The current road infrastructure (in piss-poor condition) was overtaxed during the first Reagan administration. A casino on this site will only exacerbate the existing problems.

I also don't buy into the concept that casinos in Massachusetts will pull us out of our current fiscal mud-puddle, but that's just table-stakes.

I make no value-judgments about people who gamble, unless their conduct harms their family, and their ability to sustain themselves as functioning members of society.
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I am not looking at Casinos as a way to fix out state's budget, we need new leadership with brains to do that. But, I am looking at Casinos as keeping tax revenue in our state, and not CT or to a lesser extent LV and AC.
 
Come on people. The revenue to the state is not what's at stake. More entertainment options to keep a young talented workforce is what this is about. Stodgy Boston must end if we want to stem the braindrain.
 
palindrome said:
We already live with the social costs of gaming, yet are receiving 0 benefits.
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This is the most intelligent comment in this thread and the number 1 reason why I support two or so resort style casinos in Massachusetts (not necessarily Suffolk Downs but at least 1 casino somewhere in Eastern Massachusetts).

Also, I don't think anyone is this thread or even any of our state leaders are arguing that the addition of casinos will cure all of the state's economic problems. That is far from true. But we could really use the hundreds of millions that our residents are already spending in our border states to the south.
 
Beton Brut said:
I'm not worried so much about the State. I'm plenty worried about my community.
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that is more than understandable and 100% a legitimate concern. I don't understand why the racetracks de facto get slot machines/full casino licenses in this bill. (Well, based on the bill's creator, i do)

They should, in fact, be auctioned off to the highest bidder. This would maximize state revenue the license auctions.

Somewhere in eastern MA would be ideal. Would make Boston a more attractive convention destination at the very least.
 
I've never heard any of my 'young talented workforce' friends lament the lack of a casino in our local entertainment mix. We may be stodgy, but the way to fix that is to emulate Austin, not Las Vegas and Atlantic City.
 
Ron Newman said:
I've never heard any of my 'young talented workforce' friends lament the lack of a casino in our local entertainment mix. We may be stodgy, but the way to fix that is to emulate Austin, not Las Vegas and Atlantic City.
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How about we emulate New Orleans?


Can we please stop comparing Vegas and AC to MA. It is an absurd comparison with really no merit what-so-ever. (Not specifically directed at you Ron. I have heard more than a handful of people make this argument on and off various boards.)
 
palindrome said:
with 2 casino's, i don't think we are exactly tailoring our economy towards gambling.
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Every piece of industrial policy is either good policy or bad policy. Casinos is crap industrial policy.

palindrome said:
Ct has casinos, and is also in the top 3 wealthy states. Their economy isn't gambling.
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CT is a bedroom community for Wall Street and that skews things a lot. Moreover, CT isn't doing so much high tech manufacture as it used to, so see my top point. (also see: http://www.allbusiness.com/north-america/united-states-connecticut/4060088-1.html)


palindrome said:
We have been focusing our economy on the future. Perhaps you heard of the film tax credit? maybe the Life Sciences bill? Its not like we are ending all these and trying to convert MA into one of the nations top gaming destinations.
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Good point. Let's see more of that!


palindrome said:
I could go either way on Casino's in MA, but some of you are making it seem like MA is going to explode into a detroit/AC if casinos are passed.
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Little known fact, MA is one of the most conservative states in the nation. Big surprise we react strongly to gambling.
 
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I'm 100% for this state becoming even less puritan. This sin will help. I guess I don't need it at Suffolk Downs, it's just I like the idea of a casino and a horse race track.
 
I went to the casino in New Orleans in 2004. It was so depressing, my brother and I walked in one end and out the other.
 
singbat said:
Every piece of industrial policy is either good policy or bad policy. Casinos is crap industrial policy.
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Is it industrial policy or entertainment policy? The industrial side certainly wouldn't benefit mass as there are no slot machine producers, computer manufacturers etc etc...really probably nothing used for building/stocking the casinos would be made in MA.

However, in terms of entertainment, I see casinos as making MA a more attractive place to do business, hold conventions and retain young, qualified college grads.

CT is a bedroom community for Wall Street and that skews things a lot. Moreover, CT isn't doing so much high tech manufacture as it used to, so see my top point. (also see: http://www.allbusiness.com/north-america/united-states-connecticut/4060088-1.html)
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very good point indeed. Still, the casinos produce about $400m in taxes for the state though.

I honestly wonder how much of that comes from MA residents, and how much our state pays to help gamblers.

Good point. Let's see more of that!
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Absolutely agree!

Little known fact, MA is one of the most conservative states in the nation. Big surprise we react strongly to gambling.
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I have always found it funny that MA can be both such a progressive state (gay marriage, health care) and at the same time be such a prudent state (no liquor at grocery stores etc....)

I can say for myself, one of the main reasons i support casinos is the personal freedom. I don't need a nanny state telling me what to do, but this all needs to be balanced with what those in the host communities desire. I can respect the fact that communities do not want a casino located in their cities/towns, and that should override my personal desires, especially in lieu that there isn't a casino being proposed in my town.

At the end of the day, I most certainly respect the argument you are making. You make some good points. Again, I could go either way on Casinos in MA, but i am enjoying this dialogue hearing from both sides. Its much more than you hear in the news. :)

I probably make little sense in any of these posts, its still early, and i need another cop of coffee.
 
Interesting way of thinking of this:

The state won't collect 25 percent of money gambled at the casinos in taxes, it will collect 25 percent of the money LOST by people gambling.

How can anyone in good conscience support this?
 
JohnAKeith said:
Interesting way of thinking of this:

The state won't collect 25 percent of money gambled at the casinos in taxes, it will collect 25 percent of the money LOST by people gambling.

How can anyone in good conscience support this?
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The "lost" money doesn't go into a hole and get burned and burried. It goes back into the economy. It's going to pay employees, pay other companies contracted by the casino (landscapers, etc, unless they're doing it themselves and it goes right to employees), it goes in to food distributors, it goes towards construction companies, etc.

I don't see how real money is ever lost without being physically destroyed.

EDIT: No, I don't like the idea of a casino at Suffolk Downs, just seems like a bad spot. And I support the idea of a couple casinos in MA. I'm not pushing for it, but I'm not against it.
 
BostonUrbEx said:
The "lost" money doesn't go into a hole and get burned and burried. It goes back into the economy. It's going to pay employees, pay other companies contracted by the casino (landscapers, etc, unless they're doing it themselves and it goes right to employees), it goes in to food distributors, it goes towards construction companies, etc.

I don't see how real money is ever lost without being physically destroyed.

EDIT: No, I don't like the idea of a casino at Suffolk Downs, just seems like a bad spot. And I support the idea of a couple casinos in MA. I'm not pushing for it, but I'm not against it.
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If you put it like that... does that mean it is a redistribution of wealth? By my understanding, gambling is a zero-sum game, you don't "create" money like other things. It just a way to get people to spend (and in this case, majority lose with a few winners or the house) which the state get a piece.

The money is not lost, but nothing is being created, and the money is going to move from one group to another. This may give some concern of where it is moving from...
 
It is absolutely a redistribution of wealth from the poor to the rich. With that said, I certainly enjoy gambling.
 
Some of that money collected goes to pay for workers paychecks. It allows individuals make a living. With their paychecks they can pay rent, buy groceries, contribute to their local economy. That is not economic nothingness, it lets people support themselves, thats a good thing. And if anything I'd say it is more of rich giving there money away, not the poor.
 
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