The recession is over, let's spend money! Boston Development 2010

How is it depressing? It's a country over 3 times the size of the US whose economy is booming. It seems only natural that, as their economy grows, they will get tall buildings to accompany it. And they were able to do it by taking advantage of the technologies today. We built our cities over decades, gradually building higher as new engineering practices allowed. China didn't. Frankly, comparisons on how vertical our cities are shouldn't be made with China, or even India for that matter.

If you want to get depressed about the stagnation of our cities, read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_International_Business_Center; a cluster of about a dozen buildings (not factoring in those that have been cancelled), none of which are shorter than 650 ft. Russia, with a population of 150 million, or half that of the US, with a robust-but-not-Chinese economy, in a country that has had the ability to build skyscrapers for a long time now. That's a more apt comparison.

Anyway, it's just a bump in the road. No, the US (or most of the developed world, for that matter) won't see a construction boom like they're seeing in places like Shanghai, Mumbai or Dubai. But we will see a resumption of tall(-er, in Boston's case) buildings, probably in about 7-10 years, once the economy starts growing with any sort of purpose and the glut of office space on the market today is swallowed up.

And to sum it up, the lack of tall construction doesn't make the US 'second rate'. I'll take Chicago or New York with their "stumps" over Shangvegas or any of these Chinese cities that are being rebuilt at break-neck speed without an ounce of urbanity in these redeveloped districts.
 
Boston02124 said:
depressing!
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The Chinese live under a communist regime. Look at our city planning, we can't even build up the Seaport District or a downtown building.

Whatever happened to vision, dreams, Innovation? Have the American people lost their way.
 
erikyow said:
How is it depressing? It's a country over 3 times the size of the US whose economy is booming. It seems only natural that, as their economy grows, they will get tall buildings to accompany it. And they were able to do it by taking advantage of the technologies today. We built our cities over decades, gradually building higher as new engineering practices allowed. China didn't. Frankly, comparisons on how vertical our cities are shouldn't be made with China, or even India for that matter.
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Very Depressing the Chinese Engineering is becoming more superior than the United States Engineering.

We are losing the edge.


"China claims another world record: fastest bullet train‎."

A Chinese Train Just Went Twice As Fast As Anything In America
A Chinese passenger train has set a speed record during tests on a new track from Shanghai to Beijing.

From a standing start, the Chinese-built train reached a top speed of 302 mph in 22 minutes. When opened next year, the high-speed track will cut travel time between the two cities from ten hours to four hours.

The train set a record for unmodified conventional rail. The fastest train period is a Chinese mag-lev train, which can hit 311 mph.

How does that high-speed ACELA compare? It maxes out around 150 mph
 
TheRifleman said:
Very Depressing the Chinese Engineering is becoming more superior than the United States Engineering.

We are losing the edge.


"China claims another world record: fastest bullet train‎."

A Chinese Train Just Went Twice As Fast As Anything In America
A Chinese passenger train has set a speed record during tests on a new track from Shanghai to Beijing.

From a standing start, the Chinese-built train reached a top speed of 302 mph in 22 minutes. When opened next year, the high-speed track will cut travel time between the two cities from ten hours to four hours.

The train set a record for unmodified conventional rail. The fastest train period is a Chinese mag-lev train, which can hit 311 mph.

How does that high-speed ACELA compare? It maxes out around 150 mph
Click to expand...


Wouldn't this be nice to build from NYC to BOSTON or Chicago? Making society more efficient and building a better American infrastructure. Nah instead our public officials invest trillions in Bankrupt Bankers and give tax breaks to insurance companies to build in the backbay.
 
Interesting stat
"1990 North America had 90% of the world's skyscrapers by 2012 we will have 18%"
 
We're doomed!

DOOOOOOOMED!!!!!

Doomed, I say!
 
TheRifleman said:
Interesting stat
"1990 North America had 90% of the world's skyscrapers by 2012 we will have 18%"
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You do know that the NA makes up about...oh I don't know...only 5% of the world population and with the rest of the world catching up it's not surprising that NA will have a smaller portion of skyscrapers.
 
KentXie said:
You do know that the NA makes up about...oh I don't know...only 5% of the world population and with the rest of the world catching up it's not surprising that NA will have a smaller portion of skyscrapers.
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The real question is how much wealth does NA make up compared to the rest of the world?
 
Wealth does not necessarily translate into more skyscrapers. You have to be able to fill those skyscrapers with business and people.
 
OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD. DOOM! DOOM! DOOM!



How long can China sustain it's tremendous expansion rate? Not too long, methinks.
 
The fastest train period is a Chinese mag-lev train, which can hit 311 mph.
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Not quite. The Japanese JR Maglev hit 361 mph in the same year (2003). Both were test runs.

The Shanghai Maglev does reach a ridiculous top speed of 268 mph in actual operation.

Anyway, if you care so much, shouldn't you be rooting for that Los Angeles-Las Vegas Maglev pipe dream that has been kicked around recently?
 
First off, wealth does not translate into skyscrapers. For the past few years, London has been said to have regained its title as the number one financial city in the world (from New York). London is building some tall buildings but its skyline pales in comparison to New York.

Second, the US has the engineering, it just doesn't have the money or the desire to build those engineering projects. Not to mention, it's a lot easier in places like China to throw up a skyscraper or put in a new high speed rail line. The ideas of NIMBYism and having to offer fair market pricing for expropriated properties aren't very common over there. Not to mention labour costs.

It's time to accept that the 'American century' is over. The US is now a mature economy. The period of unbridled growth is over and things can't be done the same way they used to. I agree that Americans are starting to lose their edge. I'm curious why the numbers that show American students' performance in the maths and sciences domains are slipping drastically amongst OECD countries isn't making headlines. The US used to be number one in the OECD in terms of the percentage of students who went on to pursue a post-secondary education. Now, the US isn't even in the top 10.

So while shiny skyscrapers and bullet trains are nice, right now I think the US should focus on investing in education, since ultimately that's what matters the most. One thing the US has going for it vis-?-vis a lot of the world's economic engines (Europe, China, Japan) is that the US's population demographics are favourable. Those places have rapidly aging populations and they're going to have some real headaches (particularly Europe and Japan where there's a developed welfare state) in the coming decades. The US is in a better position than others as the baby boomers start retiring. However, to maintain economic supremacy, you need to have a dynamic, educated workforce. Educate the children, and the US will continue to need skyscrapers and fast trains.

The downside to that is that until that happens it makes a board like this useless. We can critique the architecture at new schools. :)
 
I don't know, if you're no longer doing the great engineering feats, you're no longer doing the great engineering feats. And that IS saying something. If our kids don't see these great achievments with they're own eyes they will be less inticed to persue. I'm sure in '69 when we landed on the moon, that very moment a whole bunch of kids instantly decided to get involved in space related science. You can call it dick measuring contests, but it's been a defining part of America since the get go. So if your saying the times are a changing, ok they are. But I do find it depressing we don't have the balls (or maybe it is just entirely money) to build true HSR in the NEC. Or even another tunnel to augment the 100 year old one in Jersey. Ofcourse an enourmous reason why we are short on cash is b/c we over extend our military (much like the British and Roman empire).
 
GW2500 said:
I don't know, if you're no longer doing the great engineering feats, you're no longer doing the great engineering feats.
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But, in general we are doing those feats in engineering and architecture. Just not in construction. Many of the oversees icon projects are designed by and engineered by US firms. As in the article, Gensler is out of SF, and is doing a ton of high rise work in China. SOM is doing a ton of overseas work, as well as HOK. Many of my firms larger jobs over the last handful of years have been in the Middle and Far East.

Many of the points already made explain this. We have our skyscrapers, so the demand may not be there for a bunch more. We are at a trickle, while those who have none but are expanding economically are at full blast (or were). There are 400 Americans and there are supposedly 2 billion Chinese. 5 times the people in very similar amounts of space, sounds like a recipe for many more highrises.

China and India are the economic forces of the future. They will level off like the US and Japan, but it will take time. The Middle East seems like folly to me. They are building on oil money with the hope of staying a economic center after the dinosaurs run out under the sand. They are trying to create a destination (an oasis even) to keep the money pumping. Big gamble.

I won't get into what the US needs to do to regain some market share, but that would take me weeks to write, would accomplish nothing, and hurt my fingers.
 
SeamusMcFly said:
I won't get into what the US needs to do to regain some market share, but that would take me weeks to write, would accomplish nothing, and hurt my fingers.
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Actually write it I find your post very intriguing. I like getting other peoples views on our global economy.
 
I don't know, I've been in some new apartment buildings in China and the building standards are really poor compared to here. A lot of what you see over there is crap and when you do see good stuff, it's usually because it was designed and engineered by Europeans and Americans.
 
I get much more depressed looking at city like this one than looking at Chinese cities. This is a link to all of the new projects/construction going on in one of Boston's sister cities, Melbourne, Australia. Their skylines were comparable about 10 years ago, but now Boston has fallen behind, and it looks like Melbourne's next boom is going to blow what we have out of the water...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=718618&page=3
 
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