Thompson's Point, Portland

Corey said:
From earlier this month:

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Happy to see a sidewalk/path finally being built here:

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Glad there finally putting a sidewalk there.It will make easier when I'm riding there.Amazing what they did to that area I remember when it was the eight track and hobo jungle
 
I went down to TP this past weekend, it is all blocked off beyond the 1st line of buildings FY. Not worth the trip anymore.
 
I did get to the Hub Furniture sale, and while I didn't buy anything (I would have if they had what I wanted) I did get some shots of the inside of "Brick South" with my phone.

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Corey said:
Per this time-lapse video by Todd Burgess, they are starting to do some work on the "pavilion" area.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdDsyNHv9bI
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They are getting that area ready for the annual Sierra Nevada Beer Camp Tour. 7 Tour locations in the U.S. for 2014. Chico CA, San Diego, Denver, Chicago, Portland ME, Philadelphia & Mills River NC. The date for Portland is Friday, August 1st from 5 to 10 pm. Tickets are $65.
 
I noticed today that they have started putting a roof on the train shed. It looked appx. half done this afternoon. Sorry, no pics (I was driving).
 
I've seen photos on Facebook of the train shed roof being complete. Also, I found this page on the Circus Conservatory website that shows what they're planning to do with the "Brick South" building. I believe that the part to be kept is in the 4th photo above.
 
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Plans are afoot for artisanal fruit trees.
For the Tree of 40 Fruit project, Van Aken has painstakingly cultivated an array of long-forgotten stone fruit varieties and forced them to bloom together on single trees. A slow process by nature, many of his trees have already fruited, a multicolored bounty of yellow, purple, maroon and orange.

In October, Van Aken plans to plant a grove of his creations in Portland at the Thompson’s Point development, the first time multiple trees that he has assiduously nurtured will take root in one place. Other trees grow in California, Arkansas, New York state and Massachusetts, among other locations.
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Interesting, this project seems to be getting more and more artsy soft as time goes by... It sounds like the investors are having second thoughts on the initial proposal. Ten years from now this place could be covered in dust and weeds with the only thing happening being a Burning Man type of summer event. I could see that.
 
this sounds very concerning. Pulled out of the arena aspect of the development?? Are the Red Claws still interested? Can't say I am surprised.
 
Seanflynn78 said:
this sounds very concerning. Pulled out of the arena aspect of the development?? Are the Red Claws still interested? Can't say I am surprised.
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What makes you say that, about the arena? All the plans I've seen posted still include it, but it's been moved to the Suburban Propane site (the current brick SP building will become the ticket window and offices) and will depend on Suburban moving out to Riverside St.

I, too, was hoping to see a significant white-collar office complex on the Point, but apparently they couldn't find enough tenants, and it's not surprising that once the Circus Conservatory came in they would want to retain the old railroad structures (at least in part).

If anything still on the table bugs me at this point, it's that they're apparently planning for the outdoor concert space (the Union Station train shed area) to be small-scale, rather than serious enough to compete for decent big-name acts.
 
markhb said:
What makes you say that, about the arena? All the plans I've seen posted still include it, but it's been moved to the Suburban Propane site (the current brick SP building will become the ticket window and offices) and will depend on Suburban moving out to Riverside St.

I, too, was hoping to see a significant white-collar office complex on the Point, but apparently they couldn't find enough tenants, and it's not surprising that once the Circus Conservatory came in they would want to retain the old railroad structures (at least in part).

If anything still on the table bugs me at this point, it's that they're apparently planning for the outdoor concert space (the Union Station train shed area) to be small-scale, rather than serious enough to compete for decent big-name acts.
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The article in today's Press Herald about the State Theatre managing a 5,000 capacity concert venue at Thompson's Point next Summer also states that the venue will be part of the redevelopment of 30 acres of former industrial land on Thompson's Point, which eventually will include retail space, offices, residences, a hotel and the Circus Conservatory of America.
NO Arena mentioned. It appears that they have scrapped the plan for a 3,500 seat arena for the Red Claws. If true, I wonder what lead to the decision to scrap the plans for arena.
 
portlandneedsnewarena said:
NO Arena mentioned. It appears that they have scrapped the plan for a 3,500 seat arena for the Red Claws. If true, I wonder what lead to the decision to scrap the plans for arena.
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If true, then I'd venture a guess that it may be due to waning attendance at Red Claws games. The Red Claws were selling out every game when this whole development was first proposed. They've been in decline ever since now that the "newness" factor has dissipated.

This is the average attendance per season:

2009-2010 = 3,047
2010-2011 = 2,918
2011-2012 = 2,969
2012-2013 = 2,663
2013-2014 = 2,517

Could a new arena turn that around? Maybe, but probably only for a year or two. If this trend continues into this season or even remains flat at around 2,500 per game, then I just don't see a new arena being economically viable for the long-term, even as a part-time convention center. There would be more financially prudent uses of that space.

I'd rather see a cluster of high-rise towers over there than an arena anyway, especially an arena that looks like the one shown in some of the last renderings that were released.
 
I have had very little confidence in the overall scope of this project from the beginning but I support the developer's efforts to improve an eyesore parcel of land that is very visible from the interstate. Have been in the "anything is an improvement" mindset for the past year and have always felt that the required financial backing for a massive plan like this was questionable.

My thoughts on the latest idea for an outdoor concert venue is positive only if it at least equals the capacity of Bangor's waterfront facility. To limit the venue to a modest 5000 seats is as clueless as not choosing to expand the seating capacity of the civic center when we had the opportunity during renovations. Their approach should be "go big or stay home" when it comes to the final plans.

I also am not sure if there is much of a market niche for outdoor summer concerts that would only draw 5000 or less attendees. If the region wants big name entertainment to stop off in Maine's largest metropolitan area, you have to provide a facility for them to play instead of bypassing Portland on the way to Bangor.
 
Here's their current website. A few things I noticed:
  • The Circus Conservatory is now listed as a tenant in the "Event Center" (aka Red Claws arena, referred to as "the Pavilion" last time before the Planning Board). No sign of the Red Claws themselves on the site although the Bangor Daily News story still mentioned them.
  • They've changed the work on "Brick South" (the building I posted photos of the interior of) yet again... with CCA not in it, it looks like the renovations will be less extensive. Hotel and two restaurants are still on the site plan.
  • One of the tenants is a "maker space" that's financing via Indiegogo.
In short, the latest map of the property probably bears close scrutiny.

Dr. StrangeHat said:
If true, then I'd venture a guess that it may be due to waning attendance at Red Claws games. The Red Claws were selling out every game when this whole development was first proposed. They've been in decline ever since now that the "newness" factor has dissipated.

This is the average attendance per season:

2009-2010 = 3,047
2010-2011 = 2,918
2011-2012 = 2,969
2012-2013 = 2,663
2013-2014 = 2,517

Could a new arena turn that around? Maybe, but probably only for a year or two. If this trend continues into this season or even remains flat at around 2,500 per game, then I just don't see a new arena being economically viable for the long-term, even as a part-time convention center. There would be more financially prudent uses of that space.

I'd rather see a cluster of high-rise towers over there than an arena anyway, especially an arena that looks like the one shown in some of the last renderings that were released.
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Granted, the arena was pretty weak looking (a beige version of the Riverside Ice Arena). But I wonder how much of the attendance dropoff is due to the poor fan experience at the Expo. They're getting an awful lot of money for the privilege of sitting on collapsible wooden high school bleachers (not to mention the not-great-but-what-else-could-they-do handicapped seating).
 
Portlander said:
My thoughts on the latest idea for an outdoor concert venue is positive only if it at least equals the capacity of Bangor's waterfront facility. To limit the venue to a modest 5000 seats is as clueless as not choosing to expand the seating capacity of the civic center when we had the opportunity during renovations. Their approach should be "go big or stay home" when it comes to the final plans.

I also am not sure if there is much of a market niche for outdoor summer concerts that would only draw 5000 or less attendees. If the region wants big name entertainment to stop off in Maine's largest metropolitan area, you have to provide a facility for them to play instead of bypassing Portland on the way to Bangor.
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I disagree. Neither of Northern New England's two large outdoor music venues - Meadowbrook and Darling's - began at their current size. Both were smaller, more temporary venues in the beginning and only grew and gained more permanent structures once they became more established, more viable and more dialed-in. I think that's the track they're taking here – start with a nominal-sized venuw, iron out the wrinkles and then expand if it works - and a higher-up at Pollstar (which is the preeminent expert on the music industry) was noted in the Press Herald article as saying this was a good approach.

Mind you, it didn't take long for Darling's to grow and become more permanent, so I see a similar path working with Thompson's Point. "If you build it, they will come" does not necessarily work in the outdoor concert industry, especially if you build huge venue that nobody local has any experience or expertise in running. Attendees, promoters and/or artists having a bad experience at a venue early on can and will lead to a quick demise. Lauren Wayne at the State Theater is very good at her job, but even she had to bring in outside people with experience and expertise in producing large events to help plan, organize and produce the Mumford & Sons shows on the Eastern Prom.

markhb said:
Granted, the arena was pretty weak looking (a beige version of the Riverside Ice Arena). But I wonder how much of the attendance dropoff is due to the poor fan experience at the Expo. They're getting an awful lot of money for the privilege of sitting on collapsible wooden high school bleachers (not to mention the not-great-but-what-else-could-they-do handicapped seating).
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They upgraded the bleachers in the Expo as part of the renovations to land the team. They're not the same old wooden high school bleachers that used to be in there.

That said, this proposed arena wasn't going to have permanent seats either, was it? I thought the idea was to also have collapsible bleachers so the space could be used for conventions and concerts?
 
Dr. StrangeHat, I always enjoy reading your posts and consider your knowledge and input on this site as top notch and we are normally on the same page. My point with my previous post is that if Bangor, which is the country's #264 largest metropolitan area with 153,000 people has already proven that it's market can support a 16,000 capacity outdoor concert venue, why would Greater Portland at #104 and 520,000 people have any problems being successful?

Is it possible that the Thompson's Point plans are showing 5,000 covered permanent seats and not counting the additional general admission capacity in it's numbers? I am also not sure where the serious risk lies in the construction of a seasonal outdoor venue. Whether you can accommodate 5,000 or 16,000 you still need to have an acceptable sized stage that meets the touring industry standards.

So the additional costs have to come from the installation of permanent seats (Meadowbrook) and any type of protection from the elements which Darling's Waterfront Pavillion does not even have along with no permanent restrooms and concessions. And from what I hear, Bangor's stage is dismantled in the off season so back to my question, where is the financial risk?

I also agree that Lauren is outstanding at what she does which gives me even more confidence in doing it big from the start. If Portland can throw together a concert for 13,000 on the Promenade in a fairly short amount of time it will be able to organize and produce quality shows at a more permanent venue at TP.
 
Portlander said:
I have had very little confidence in the overall scope of this project from the beginning but I support the developer's efforts to improve an eyesore parcel of land that is very visible from the interstate. Have been in the "anything is an improvement" mindset for the past year and have always felt that the required financial backing for a massive plan like this was questionable.

My thoughts on the latest idea for an outdoor concert venue is positive only if it at least equals the capacity of Bangor's waterfront facility. To limit the venue to a modest 5000 seats is as clueless as not choosing to expand the seating capacity of the civic center when we had the opportunity during renovations. Their approach should be "go big or stay home" when it comes to the final plans.

I also am not sure if there is much of a market niche for outdoor summer concerts that would only draw 5000 or less attendees. If the region wants big name entertainment to stop off in Maine's largest metropolitan area, you have to provide a facility for them to play instead of bypassing Portland on the way to Bangor.
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The waterfront concert's on the pier seemed to be very successful and they are of 5,000 or less attendees. The shipyard beer fest, reggae fest, morrisette, 3 doors down and dirks bentley all did quite well, i'm sure zz top would have done well too. But your right thompsons point can support much bigger audiences and they should not hamstring themselves to that low number. I attended beerfest and I ran into zero parking issues and traffic, very well run, Although people left at different times.
I have to wonder why a competing place hasn't been built like bangors, the price for the infrastructure seems relatively small compared to the payout.
 
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