Urban Ring

Officials are also considering adding an underground station on the Green Line?s D branch between Kenmore and Park Street as part of the project.
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What's this?
 
I think that is a reporter who doesn't know what they are talking about.
 
A $2 billion bus route. Pathetic.

There is a total absence of vision, leadership, and competency when it comes to our public transit. I don't know why people put up with it.
 
I don't get it, if you're gonna build a tunnel, why not have rails in it? Seems like a giant waste of money. Several people have stated bus tunnels are more expensive than underground rail. any proof on that one? Seems like busses in the tunnels are still cheaper, and its gotta be why they'd do that.
 
Briv -- Putting up the meeting & event info for us has become really important. We need to have a presence at the T's public comment meetings and tell Grabauskas and his minions they need to try harder. If our pal Neddy and a few neighbors could give the Heisman to Columbus Center, then perhaps a few of the folks here can at lest discredit the T's ill-conceived plans publicly (and hopefully the cameras will be rolling).
 
^ And they're popping the tunnel up at Fenway/Longwood because they don't have the will for fight to go under Brookline. It would make sense to push this tunnel all the way to Harvard's new Allston campus, creating a direct connection to the LMA/Harvard Medical School.
 
I'm honestly surprised that the experience and cost of the Silver Line does not preclude any future bus tunnels or BRT again in Massachusetts, ever. The buses are better than the average bus, but it is not rapid and it was absurdly expensive. It's a failure, res ipsa loquitur. I honestly think that any politician or bureaucrat that would promote a similar project must be mentally defective or corrupt.
 
Beton Brut said:
Briv -- Putting up the meeting & event info for us has become really important. We need to have a presence at the T's public comment meetings and tell Grabauskas and his minions they need to try harder. If our pal Neddy and a few neighbors could give the Heisman to Columbus Center, then perhaps a few of the folks here can at lest discredit the T's ill-conceived plans publicly (and hopefully the cameras will be rolling).
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I made it to the interview round of the selection process for the Citizens Advisory Council to the MBTA. Wish me luck!
 
Charlie_mta said:
Why is it that other US cities in Boston's size category are planning light rail lines, but Boston is opting instead for expensive and ineffficient bus tunnel systems? Is Boston that provincial and out of touch?
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And I wonder if those in other cities planning at-grade light rail are wishing they could be more like Boston and get awesome tunnels.

Why is it that other US cities in DCs size category are planning tunnels, but DC is opting instead for expensive and ugly elevated rail systems? Is DC that provincial and out of touch?

Why is it that other US cities in Miami's size category are planning tunnels, but Miami is opting instead for expensive and inefficient streetcars with tons of grade crossings? Is Miami that provincial and out of touch?
 
Each city is different, each has different transportaiton patterns. Also funding is hard to get for certain things. The last point is why the T is doing BRT like crazy, cause it's what the Feds will pay for. It's a terrible system that needs to be fixed at the top.

Conversely, the state needs to find a way to pay for transporation projects as well. How are we supposed to expand our systems when what we have is falling apart?
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
Conversely, the state needs to find a way to pay for transporation projects as well. How are we supposed to expand our systems when what we have is falling apart?
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Expansion projects and maintenance come from different budgets. Building a new tunnel will not take away money to fix a bridge elsewhere. It's stupid, but that's how it works.
 
jass said:
Expansion projects and maintenance come from different budgets. Building a new tunnel will not take away money to fix a bridge elsewhere. It's stupid, but that's how it works.
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I don't think it's stupid, I think neither are properly funded.
 
jass said:
And I wonder if those in other cities planning at-grade light rail are wishing they could be more like Boston and get awesome tunnels.

Why is it that other US cities in Miami's size category are planning tunnels, but Miami is opting instead for expensive and inefficient streetcars with tons of grade crossings? Is Miami that provincial and out of touch?
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I'm sorry, I've gotta call B.S. on this one. Being from South Florida, and being very aware of SoFlo politics, I insist on shedding some light to you about Miami's dilemma. If Miami was able to, they would install a subway system. It obviously makes the most sense for heavy transit in a developed area because you don't need to worry so much about land acquisition for your system like you would for other modes of transit (i.e. elevated rail, monorail, etc.).

Unfortunately, Miami's geography prohibits subterranean construction. For the entire state of Florida south of Lake Okeechobee, the water table from the Florida Aquifer is literally 3-4 feet below the surface (which is already at sea level). This is why you don't find basements in much of the state, along with a number of reservoirs/retention ponds in suburbanized development built to strengthen the foundations for buildings.

Miami's only refuge for the foreseeable future is to bring back streetcars and install BRT at grade and on roads. It requires the least amount of land acquisition and is not nearly as expensive as extending the current Metrorail system (*which they have allotted funds to expand, BTW).

Sorry for digressing off from the real topic, though: Boston's Urban Ring.

I don't remember who said it, but they're right: if they're going to tunnel between Ruggles and Kenmore, they may as well install rail service. Just 20 minutes ago I was eating at a sidewalk cafe @ NU and counted the number of people getting off green line trains vs. the 39 bus.

Between 5PM and 5:30PM @ the Huntington Ave. Northeastern University T stop:
4 green-line trains ==> 46 total passengers getting off trains.
6 T Busses (RT 39) ==> 18 passengers getting off busses.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that Bostonians (and the masses for that matter) prefer rail-oriented travel over bus.
 
Then how would the transbay tunnel to Miami Beach work?

Anyway, replace tunnel with elevated rail. Miami is planning a streetcar, which is a huge waste. Either elevate it (extend the awesome people mover) or use trackless trolleys. Actually, scratch that, how is any overhead power system for trains or buses a good idea in Miami?

And while I hate to go offtopic, I hope the moderators here can allow for a free flowing discussion which will eventually return to Boston Urban Ring unlike the lock-monsters at the other forum.
 
jass said:
Then how would the transbay tunnel to Miami Beach work?.
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It won't work! That's why they haven't built one yet! Currently, while the demand exists for better mass transit between downtown Miami and Miami Beach, there is no need for a tunnel. They're better off building elevated rail along one of the causeways connecting the two cities.

I think they tunnel you're thinking of is the Port of Miami Tunnel they're building... that's not a rail tunnel, though. They're building a tunnel that goes from the Macarthur causeway north of the port and connecting it to the port via a tunnel that goes under the cruise ship channel. The whole goal of this is to relieve downtown congestion from port traffic because currently about 36,000 trucks a day drive from the port through downtown and over to I-95. The tunnel to Macarthur causeway will provide a direct link for these trucks, freeing up noise and air pollution in downtown Miami and making it a more pedestrian friendly atmosphere. (Think of it as South Florida's Big Dig)

The link below takes you to the port tunnel website:

http://www.portofmiamitunnel.com/
 
Youre right, I was confused with the truck tunnel. I think the planned rail project to Miami Beach is also elevated (and wont be happening in our lifetimes)
 
dshoost88 said:
Between 5PM and 5:30PM @ the Huntington Ave. Northeastern University T stop:
4 green-line trains ==> 46 total passengers getting off trains.
6 T Busses (RT 39) ==> 18 passengers getting off busses.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that Bostonians (and the masses for that matter) prefer rail-oriented travel over bus.
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Out of curiosity, how do you think these numbers might change if passengers could board the 39 bus in East Cambridge, the West End, Bulfinch Triangle, Government Center, Downtown Crossing, and the Theatre District before reaching its current point of origin in Copley? And what if that 39 bus also operated in an exclusive grade separated right of way for the entire trip from Lechmere to Northeastern? And what if the E train only started at Copley Station and ran in mixed traffic on surface streets (as it does beyond Brigham Circle) from Copley to Northeastern? Would people still choose the train over the bus? If they would, I would suggest they have an unhealthy fixation with rail.
 
^^
Good point - exclusive right of ways are probably of paramount importance.
 
If an exclusive surface right of way or tunnel is going to be built, then light rail is a better use of that facility than a bus. Light rail has a much higher passenger capacity, is smoother and less polluting. Also, tunnels and elevated structures for light rail are narrower than those required for buses, offering some cost savings there.

The only segment of the Urban Ring requiring busses is the section going through the Ted Williams tunnel. The rest should be light rail.
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
I think that is a reporter who doesn't know what they are talking about.
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It's Park Drive that runs over the Fenway stop. It would be nice if they built the stop so that after a Sox game it was a bit easier to get through the area.
 
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