Urban Ring

(The Tremont Street Subway feeds into a separate Green Line track pair from all the current services, so there's capacity.)



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It's four-track from Boylston to Park but goes back to only two from Park to Government Center. All four existing lines pre and post Government Center being closed for construction use the two-track segment between Park and Government Center.
 
It's four-track from Boylston to Park but goes back to only two from Park to Government Center. All four existing lines pre and post Government Center being closed for construction use the two-track segment between Park and Government Center.

Well, yeah, some trains would turn at Park, but the point is that south of Park, the Tremont Street Subway trains would not be at the expense of any preexisting Green Line capacity. Which branches end up turning at Park and which get to go farther north is a different question.
 
Taking from the Volpe Redevelopment Thread



GLX doesn't help Red's crush loads at Kendall unless it's brought from Union to Porter. The Urban Ring is dormant. If Boston-metro is choking on its own success, then Kendall Square is getting crushed.

We are talking 15 years out for full Volpe redevelopment and the Urban Ring won't stay dormant much longer since it is relatively inexpensive as a BRT project done in segments. Basically just need to pave next to the existing tracks on the Grand Junction and MIT and Kendall businesses would probably help pay for some stations. The Grand Junction segment could happen sooner than GLX and much less expensively with the right pull. Grand Junction would essentially tie together Red (with a short walk), Green and Orange lines and possibly a new West Station.

I actually see grand junction as light rail as more likely especially with the GLX moving along. And it would be higher capacity by a lot. I doubt after watching the silverline debacle that Cambridge would be very supportive of Grand Junction BRT.

The issue with BRT at this point is "what's it going to tie into on the North-side? There won't be any room on the rail ROW north of Medford Street for a bus ROW. Will BRT street-run to the new Lechmere and loop there? If it is to get to Sullivan, what routing?

The concept always worked better as LRT because of its ability to tie into the existing system. As BRT it would be an isolate.
 
Taking from the Volpe Redevelopment Thread










The issue with BRT at this point is "what's it going to tie into on the North-side? There won't be any room on the rail ROW north of Medford Street for a bus ROW. Will BRT street-run to the new Lechmere and loop there? If it is to get to Sullivan, what routing?

The concept always worked better as LRT because of its ability to tie into the existing system. As BRT it would be an isolate.


Multiple options for street run to Sullivan. They should be talking about dedicated BRT lanes for the grounding the McGrath highway planning.

Too many at grade crossings and too expensive to do a trolley. How many decades has GLX taken and still counting? Another GLX branch to West Station would take 40 years to work out.

A bit of asphalt, a few traffic lights and a few buses and you have yourself a critical segment of the urban ring in three years partially funded by MIT and Kendall businesses. And you can still run your trains at night like they do now. The Urban ring is getting built... It is just being done in phases as BRT.
 
The Urban Ring BRT idea was shot down in flames long ago. It was basically shitty Silver Line service running along city streets with a fleet of buses that would have backed up traffic for days. Not that there shouldn't be improved bus service around the urban core, jut that the BRT plan floated a decade ago is dead in the water. And BRT works for a certain segment of transit needs. I feel like with all the new development happening in Kendall the needs will be much greater than what BRT can handle. Just look at whats going on in SBW, pretty soon they are going to have to address the short commings of the Silver Line and when actual residences start opening up out there forget about BRT.
 
Multiple options for street run to Sullivan. They should be talking about dedicated BRT lanes for the grounding the McGrath highway planning.

Too many at grade crossings and too expensive to do a trolley. How many decades has GLX taken and still counting? Another GLX branch to West Station would take 40 years to work out.

A bit of asphalt, a few traffic lights and a few buses and you have yourself a critical segment of the urban ring in three years partially funded by MIT and Kendall businesses. And you can still run your trains at night like they do now. The Urban ring is getting built... It is just being done in phases as BRT.

The grade crossings can technically stay and not have a huge impact on service especially if signal priority is used as you say it would be for BRT on the same route. Also the stations can be simpler if they decide that is feasible and just use a POP system instead of prepay and again provide equal service to the other light rail branches. It just makes a lot more sense especially since the upper capacity limit of BRT would become an issue since the Kendall/MIT area is Cambridge's downtown and is becoming denser.
 
The grade crossings can technically stay and not have a huge impact on service especially if signal priority is used as you say it would be for BRT on the same route. Also the stations can be simpler if they decide that is feasible and just use a POP system instead of prepay and again provide equal service to the other light rail branches. It just makes a lot more sense especially since the upper capacity limit of BRT would become an issue since the Kendall/MIT area is Cambridge's downtown and is becoming denser.


It isn't an either/or. Or at least it shouldn't be from a practical standpoint. A BRT or even just dedicated bus lane has potential to happen almost immediately at very low cost.
 
The Urban Ring BRT idea was shot down in flames long ago. It was basically shitty Silver Line service running along city streets with a fleet of buses that would have backed up traffic for days. Not that there shouldn't be improved bus service around the urban core, jut that the BRT plan floated a decade ago is dead in the water. And BRT works for a certain segment of transit needs. I feel like with all the new development happening in Kendall the needs will be much greater than what BRT can handle. Just look at whats going on in SBW, pretty soon they are going to have to address the short commings of the Silver Line and when actual residences start opening up out there forget about BRT.

Urban ring BRT is proceeding. In the current phase that means a Silver Line extension to Chelsea. Silver Line running on city streets isn't ideal. No. But the cost of a dedicated bus way through Chelsea is just $33 million. Nobody is talking about it because it isn't a big budget item like GLX.

Once the right of way and usage is (re) established, then sure go ahead and lay some tracks and overhead wires if it is cost/capacity justified.
 
But the chelsea BRT and the Grand Junction BRT are pretty different and on the Grand Junction rail would likely be cheapest as it just involves adding a second rail and rehabbing/ replacing the existing one and electrifying which can't be that much more than tearing up existing rail to replace with a busway.

It is not reasonable to look at one site and say well BRT works here so it should work just as well in X location without careful consideration of how it ties into the overall transit network.
 
But the chelsea BRT and the Grand Junction BRT are pretty different and on the Grand Junction rail would likely be cheapest as it just involves adding a second rail and rehabbing/ replacing the existing one and electrifying which can't be that much more than tearing up existing rail to replace with a busway.

It is not reasonable to look at one site and say well BRT works here so it should work just as well in X location without careful consideration of how it ties into the overall transit network.

Why can't you keep the rail? Just build the busway around the rail. There has to be a good/better way for tracks and road to commingle where there isn't room to have them side by side. Grand Junction is currently only used at night for moving trains around.

The tracks provide the only North South link through the city, so they need to stay. But trolleys have been sharing roads for a century. I know there are maintenance issues with tracks embedded in roads, but having dual mode rail/road infrastructure gives us the flexibility to utilize either type of vehicle depending on needs and resources available.

I'm not saying don't look forward to rail service and stations on Grand Junction, but that is likely decades out at the rate new lines get planned and built in this system. Better to fill the gap than hold out.
 
Why can't you keep the rail? Just build the busway around the rail. There has to be a good/better way for tracks and road to commingle where there isn't room to have them side by side. Grand Junction is currently only used at night for moving trains around.

That isn't true. My office overlooks the Grand Junction (@ Broadway). I'm in the office until 6pm daily and I hear at least one train every day, sometimes 2 in a day.
 
To some extent any proposal for the Grand Junction other than DMU's is impossible until there is a Southside maintenance facility or the North South link and electrification happens.
 
Multiple options for street run to Sullivan. They should be talking about dedicated BRT lanes for the grounding the McGrath highway planning.

McGrath/O'Brien isn't much of a bus corridor. The 87 out of Lechmere makes only 2 stops on it before turning out at Somerville Ave. to Union; 80 and 88 out of Lechmere make only 3 stops on it before turning out at Medford St.. And those are the routes that are going to see the biggest changes in ridership away from that corridor when GLX Union and Washington open.

The Sullivan routes all intersect it at Washington or Broadway. McGrath doesn't interface with Sullivan at all or trap any of those routes into an effective conduit, because McGrath doesn't connect any square-to-square travel patterns. The whole parkway is strictly a creation of the auto era for reaching the suburbs nonstop; it was proto- I-93. There's no BRT corridor to make of it because GLX immediately paralleling it, and Washington and Broadway intersecting it are the sum total of square-to-square routes. It doesn't go where the transit trips go.

Just because it's wide doesn't mean it's a ready-made transit corridor in the making. If the MDC hadn't mistaken itself for a highway-building agency in the 1930's it's a road that wouldn't exist in any way, shape, or form because 93 would've come along all the same 20 years later as the much better means of skipping over Somerville to get in/out of Boston.

Too many at grade crossings and too expensive to do a trolley. How many decades has GLX taken and still counting? Another GLX branch to West Station would take 40 years to work out.
And defeatism makes a BRT Urban Ring happen faster...how? Hate to break it to you, but they already pulled the cut-and-run on both the Crosstown bus network that was Phase I of the UR and further planning on Phase II. It's not proceeding at all. Silver Gateway is not an intended first step on the UR, as much as it should be. It's only happening because Eastie Haul Road was pre-built for trucks with all-Massport money doing the more expensive half the build work to the Mall, so the modest construction cost is low-hanging fruit for improving access to nearly inaccessible Chelsea. If it were intended as a down payment on the UR they wouldn't have stuffed the whole rest of the study in a file cabinet, taken down the UR website, left it off the TIP, and forgotten that the CT4 thru CT9 implementation plans that should've been implemented 12 years ago ever existed on paper. They put their head firmly in the sand on phasing the UR. Just because that head is twitching here doesn't mean it's coming out of the sand as far as corridor-wide planning is concerned.

Also, don't bet on this busway ever being extended 1 inch further west into Everett. That's where construction gets even more expensive with the flyover ramps required to get around the freight junction. Not even the casino has enough juice to push that along.

A bit of asphalt, a few traffic lights and a few buses and you have yourself a critical segment of the urban ring in three years partially funded by MIT and Kendall businesses. And you can still run your trains at night like they do now. The Urban ring is getting built... It is just being done in phases as BRT.
See above. That's not what's happening at all, and not how this is being pitched. The Urban Ring isn't spoken of by name any more.

The grade crossings can technically stay and not have a huge impact on service especially if signal priority is used as you say it would be for BRT on the same route. Also the stations can be simpler if they decide that is feasible and just use a POP system instead of prepay and again provide equal service to the other light rail branches. It just makes a lot more sense especially since the upper capacity limit of BRT would become an issue since the Kendall/MIT area is Cambridge's downtown and is becoming denser.

This is correct. The problem with the Grand Junction right now, and why the Indigo plan for it is such a nonstarter, is that traffic priority can't be shared between modes: the railroad gets 100% of the crossing priority. On LRT or BRT you can tie the transit line into the roadway signal cycle. For Main and Broadway, since it's at an existing signal, that works perfectly. Mass Ave...still some disruption...but not the same as with a train. With a RR the inability to share imposes a sharp upper limit on frequencies before it starts doing more harm than good to overall congestion (e.g. with the 1 and CT1, which carry more riders than Indigo ever will). And that ceiling gets hit well before the frequencies can get high enough to make that big a difference around Kendall.

What they studied for Worcester Line-North Station commuter rail is pretty much the only thing that would work on the current mode. 5 rush hour trips in the commute direction the hours Red out of SS and Orange out of BBY are at their most congested were the only times of day it made sense. Every other hour of the day when the subway wasn't suffering under load the travel times on a subway transfer out of BBY and SS were nearly equal to the one-seat and demand ended up being worse diluting CR service with a fork at West to 2 terminals vs. keeping the stiffest possible off-peak headways to 1 terminal only.

That's going to end up ringing true on an Indigo branch when that branch is probably going to fall a lot closer to 25-30 min. frequencies through those gates than the 15-20 doable on the higher-capacity lines. They end up better off keeping stiffer BBY/SS-only frequencies to Allston and fixing @#$% Orange and Red so their performance stops collapsing under load. Frequencies matter, and on that corridor you can't hit the frequency threshold without conversion to LRT or BRT mode. Beware any statements from spokesflaks who try to pitch Indigo as some sort of "good enough" analogue for the Ring. The best headways they can do within the constraints of not being able to share signaling is nowhere near good enough for more than a drop in the bucket and useful niche for its low cost. It doesn't save a single Red Line or bus trips; those keep growing much too fast for any permutation of Grand Junction choo-choo to have an effect. You would only see real load-shifting movement and some semblance of a 'corridor' take shape with a total change in modes off the RR.

Why can't you keep the rail? Just build the busway around the rail. There has to be a good/better way for tracks and road to commingle where there isn't room to have them side by side. Grand Junction is currently only used at night for moving trains around.

CSX runs to Everett mid-afternoon 6 days a week. The T's north-south equipment swaps happen any hour of the day on-demand, but usually during daytime off-peaks when BET is fully-staffed. I don't known when Amtrak does Downeaster equipment moves these days. For at least a couple years you could always walk to Kendall after work and see Amtrak go by at 6:00pm Friday on-the-dot. Nighttime moves are rarest. What staff is assigned to the graveyard shift is at premium for track work out the field or repairs indoor in the shop, not shunting stuff around or making dispatch work non-revenue hours. There's good reason they set their equipment balance in the daytime and evening off-peaks and not overnights.

The tracks provide the only North South link through the city, so they need to stay. But trolleys have been sharing roads for a century. I know there are maintenance issues with tracks embedded in roads, but having dual mode rail/road infrastructure gives us the flexibility to utilize either type of vehicle depending on needs and resources available.
Are you talking paving the Grand Junction for street-running RR tracks? That doesn't work. Under FRA regs it stops being a branchline under those circumstances and gets grouped under the same regulatory authority as industrial tracks. Limits to what it can carry, limits to speeds, etc. And regulations that the train must constantly be blowing the horn while it is in mixed traffic, which puts a giant damper on any chance of segregating train traffic through the heart of Cambridge to the graveyard shift. The only place in the country that has an exemption to the regs on this is the South Shore Line's hundred year old street-running segment in Michigan City, IN which officials have desperately been trying to get rid of for decades. Everywhere else street-running RR's are something you only see in industrial parks, ports, and really short-length anachronisms. It's not practical to do. Functionally it seals any chance of that "only North South link through the city" ever being used, and boots the equipment swaps out to Worcester County all the same.

There's no dual use to be had with the current mode. The ROW isn't wide enough for busway next to rails, and paving means the rails are gone...functionally or literally. You're either building the Urban Ring or you're not. There's no half-step or RR mode sharing as far as the Grand Junction is concerned.

You can absolutely share modes between BRT and LRT. That's exactly what the Transitway was envisioned for. The UR was never envisioned to be a route mixer of diverging routes...just a single ride tying together all of the critical transfer points on the system with quadrant-to-quadrant turnover in the ridership. So you really wouldn't approach the build as a "we need both BRT and LRT to share". There aren't any plausible scenarios where it would need to share that end up juicy enough to spend even more on a dual-mode Ring. That said, for the very short length of busway they're building in Chelsea it's no big deal to lay tracks if they choose to make the rest of the circuit rail. And yes, you could keep the existing pavement too if not ripping it up for future Chelsea bus considerations was worth doing. It's not going to weigh into the Ring-wide modal decision at all; it's simply too short a construction length to tangibly influence that future decision.

But you'd never build new for both modes elsewhere. And that means the mode you do choose has to have choice shaped by capacity and frequency...as we found with the Silver Line. If an articulated bus can't be packed on tight-enough headways to handle the ridership loads at Kendall, you better strongly consider whether 2-, 3-, or 4- car trolley lashups are the flexibility you need to scale to any per-headway demand. I don't think we've studied well enough here to peg that demand to anywhere near enough accuracy to make that call, so it's still a wide open question which mode fits better. But BRT is not "like a trolley but on rubber tires" as if that's the safety blanket to cling to in any situation. That myth has unfortunately been bitterly disproven in this very same city. Know thy ridership projections, and get it right the first time.

(To do that, of course they first have to pull the UR studies out of the file cabinet and give them a second, more thorough, pass.)

I'm not saying don't look forward to rail service and stations on Grand Junction, but that is likely decades out at the rate new lines get planned and built in this system. Better to fill the gap than hold out.
See all above. There's no gap-filling choice to make here. You can't provision for dual RR use, and there is no further planning being done for the UR or down payments therein. They are holding out. That's the entire problem. They have to stop holding out, because there's no gap-filler that addresses the UR need as long as they're holding out.

Keep in mind...the totally on-street boring old CT# express bus network IS Urban Ring Phase I. And they're holding out on that. CT1-2-3, the only ones that ever did get implemented, are half-assed and buried in wayfinding literature like a shameful secret. The whole city was supposed to be blanketed with CT routes. And the CT routes were supposed to interact with each other at transfer points for fast CT-to-CT trips corridor-to-corridor. That's just how extensively they're holding out on the Ring. The express bus system alone would've been a big f'n deal at tying stuff together that's just not reachable today. We're at a way more rudimentary Square One with gap-filling than worrying about dual-use dedicated ROW's if the dual-use streets can't even get something as basic as an express bus network standard-issue for nearly any city this size.
 
McGrath/O'Brien isn't much of a bus corridor. The 87 out of Lechmere makes only 2 stops on it before turning out at Somerville Ave. to Union; 80 and 88 out of Lechmere make only 3 stops on it before turning out at Medford St.. And those are the routes that are going to see the biggest changes in ridership away from that corridor when GLX Union and Washington open.

The Sullivan routes all intersect it at Washington or Broadway. McGrath doesn't interface with Sullivan at all or trap any of those routes into an effective conduit, because McGrath doesn't connect any square-to-square travel patterns. The whole parkway is strictly a creation of the auto era for reaching the suburbs nonstop; it was proto- I-93. There's no BRT corridor to make of it because GLX immediately paralleling it, and Washington and Broadway intersecting it are the sum total of square-to-square routes. It doesn't go where the transit trips go.

Just because it's wide doesn't mean it's a ready-made transit corridor in the making. If the MDC hadn't mistaken itself for a highway-building agency in the 1930's it's a road that wouldn't exist in any way, shape, or form because 93 would've come along all the same 20 years later as the much better means of skipping over Somerville to get in/out of Boston.

So, what I am looking at is Grand Junction ROW interfacing with the road network at Medford St or with an overpass into the current Somerville Avenue Extension where it would follow McGrath at least for a short stretch up to Washington St or perhaps up 28 (But that is a big loop to Sullivan just to avoid Washington St, so it would only be worth it if you intended to connect up to Wellington instead of Sullivan.)

And defeatism makes a BRT Urban Ring happen faster...how? Hate to break it to you, but they already pulled the cut-and-run on both the Crosstown bus network that was Phase I of the UR and further planning on Phase II. It's not proceeding at all. Silver Gateway is not an intended first step on the UR, as much as it should be. It's only happening because Eastie Haul Road was pre-built for trucks with all-Massport money doing the more expensive half the build work to the Mall, so the modest construction cost is low-hanging fruit for improving access to nearly inaccessible Chelsea. If it were intended as a down payment on the UR they wouldn't have stuffed the whole rest of the study in a file cabinet, taken down the UR website, left it off the TIP, and forgotten that the CT4 thru CT9 implementation plans that should've been implemented 12 years ago ever existed on paper. They put their head firmly in the sand on phasing the UR. Just because that head is twitching here doesn't mean it's coming out of the sand as far as corridor-wide planning is concerned.

I think you have that backwards. I am looking at the glass as a quarter full instead of 3/4 empty. The Silver Gateway was indeed intended as the current phase of the most recent Urban Ring project and it is proceeding where they can just pave a ROW and put in a few basic stations/bus stops.

The website is very much still up: http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/theurbanring/

LPA_Figure_thumb.jpg


Or are you talking about previous visions of the Urban Ring?

Also, don't bet on this busway ever being extended 1 inch further west into Everett. That's where construction gets even more expensive with the flyover ramps required to get around the freight junction. Not even the casino has enough juice to push that along.

You are probably right about the flyover ramps, but that doesn't mean the cheaper segments can't get built. That is my overall point. Build the parts that can be done cheaply first and run the buses on the streets in segments where it can't be done sooner rather than later. If ten years from now you have a bus getting stuck in traffic and you need $30 million for an overpass that is going to be an easier sell than than a couple billion to make the whole thing light rail and build it all at once. Projects wait decades for that kind of money.



See above. That's not what's happening at all, and not how this is being pitched. The Urban Ring isn't spoken of by name any more.

Nobody talks about "Urban Ring" or the Inner Belt because the project isn't ever going to get funded as a single project. Especially if you are talking about new tunnels being dug through Boston (and/or Brookline).

This is correct. The problem with the Grand Junction right now, and why the Indigo plan for it is such a nonstarter, is that traffic priority can't be shared between modes: the railroad gets 100% of the crossing priority. On LRT or BRT you can tie the transit line into the roadway signal cycle. For Main and Broadway, since it's at an existing signal, that works perfectly. Mass Ave...still some disruption...but not the same as with a train. With a RR the inability to share imposes a sharp upper limit on frequencies before it starts doing more harm than good to overall congestion (e.g. with the 1 and CT1, which carry more riders than Indigo ever will). And that ceiling gets hit well before the frequencies can get high enough to make that big a difference around Kendall.

According to fattony they run one maybe two trains during the day on Grand Junction. Even if you give trains a two hour window during the day ((and overnight) to run then you have the rest of the day to run BRT. If you are talking about a policy or turf issue, then change the policy and carrot and stick the turf issues. There is no reason a ROW through Cambridge should sit idle most of the time when it could do a lot more good while retaining the existing uses.


Are you talking paving the Grand Junction for street-running RR tracks? That doesn't work. Under FRA regs it stops being a branchline under those circumstances and gets grouped under the same regulatory authority as industrial tracks. Limits to what it can carry, limits to speeds, etc. And regulations that the train must constantly be blowing the horn while it is in mixed traffic, which puts a giant damper on any chance of segregating train traffic through the heart of Cambridge to the graveyard shift. The only place in the country that has an exemption to the regs on this is the South Shore Line's hundred year old street-running segment in Michigan City, IN which officials have desperately been trying to get rid of for decades. Everywhere else street-running RR's are something you only see in industrial parks, ports, and really short-length anachronisms. It's not practical to do. Functionally it seals any chance of that "only North South link through the city" ever being used, and boots the equipment swaps out to Worcester County all the same.

There's no dual use to be had with the current mode. The ROW isn't wide enough for busway next to rails, and paving means the rails are gone...functionally or literally. You're either building the Urban Ring or you're not. There's no half-step or RR mode sharing as far as the Grand Junction is concerned.

That is exactly what I am saying. Get an exemption to the FRA regs. If there was ever a place to do it it is on the Grand Junction. With one or two trains per day it (but a need to continue to retain the rail link for that use) it seems like a very obvious need.

You can absolutely share modes between BRT and LRT. That's exactly what the Transitway was envisioned for. The UR was never envisioned to be a route mixer of diverging routes...just a single ride tying together all of the critical transfer points on the system with quadrant-to-quadrant turnover in the ridership. So you really wouldn't approach the build as a "we need both BRT and LRT to share". There aren't any plausible scenarios where it would need to share that end up juicy enough to spend even more on a dual-mode Ring. That said, for the very short length of busway they're building in Chelsea it's no big deal to lay tracks if they choose to make the rest of the circuit rail. And yes, you could keep the existing pavement too if not ripping it up for future Chelsea bus considerations was worth doing. It's not going to weigh into the Ring-wide modal decision at all; it's simply too short a construction length to tangibly influence that future decision.

But you'd never build new for both modes elsewhere. And that means the mode you do choose has to have choice shaped by capacity and frequency...as we found with the Silver Line. If an articulated bus can't be packed on tight-enough headways to handle the ridership loads at Kendall, you better strongly consider whether 2-, 3-, or 4- car trolley lashups are the flexibility you need to scale to any per-headway demand. I don't think we've studied well enough here to peg that demand to anywhere near enough accuracy to make that call, so it's still a wide open question which mode fits better. But BRT is not "like a trolley but on rubber tires" as if that's the safety blanket to cling to in any situation. That myth has unfortunately been bitterly disproven in this very same city. Know thy ridership projections, and get it right the first time.

So you are declaring Silver Line a failure? You have to look at it systemically. I don't think ridership numbers or projections count as much when you are building on spec for developments that are 30 years out. In the Silver Line case we are talking about supporting the Convention Center and the build out of the Seaport which is still ongoing for at least the next decade. Silver Line will be a failure if it has low ridership in 20 years.

In the case of Grand Junction we are talking about tying Kendall/MIT to Beacon Yards/Harvard and BU via (West Station). Harvard is investing hundreds of millions or billions even in building science labs in Allston and tying the two areas together, as directly as possible, is worth a lot.


See all above. There's no gap-filling choice to make here. You can't provision for dual RR use, and there is no further planning being done for the UR or down payments therein. They are holding out. That's the entire problem. They have to stop holding out, because there's no gap-filler that addresses the UR need as long as they're holding out.

Keep in mind...the totally on-street boring old CT# express bus network IS Urban Ring Phase I. And they're holding out on that. CT1-2-3, the only ones that ever did get implemented, are half-assed and buried in wayfinding literature like a shameful secret. The whole city was supposed to be blanketed with CT routes. And the CT routes were supposed to interact with each other at transfer points for fast CT-to-CT trips corridor-to-corridor. That's just how extensively they're holding out on the Ring. The express bus system alone would've been a big f'n deal at tying stuff together that's just not reachable today. We're at a way more rudimentary Square One with gap-filling than worrying about dual-use dedicated ROW's if the dual-use streets can't even get something as basic as an express bus network standard-issue for nearly any city this size.

I agree that they would need to overcome a significant regulatory obstacle, but getting across Cambridge from East to West with just four or five road crossings on a dedicated busway is too good to pass up even if it does mean a bit of red tape in an FRA exemption.

The rail alternative on Grand Junction is not going to be an Urban Ring however. It would just be either DMU or a GLX Branch to West Station and stopping there. But more likely neither or at least not in our productive lifetimes.

So yes the Urban Ring is dead in its many previous incarnations, but long live the Urban Ring.
 
So, what I am looking at is Grand Junction ROW interfacing with the road network at Medford St or with an overpass into the current Somerville Avenue Extension where it would follow McGrath at least for a short stretch up to Washington St or perhaps up 28 (But that is a big loop to Sullivan just to avoid Washington St, so it would only be worth it if you intended to connect up to Wellington instead of Sullivan.)

What would it interface with. You can't get it to Medford St. from any point in Cambridge; it's too narrow vs. abutting buildings to do rail-with-busway. It's one or the other...not both. The buses down Washington...already go down Washington: 86, 91, CT2. There's no tie-in that would yank them down McGrath without pulling them a mile off-course. It's not a bus corridor. It never was. Just because it's wide doesn't mean there's demand for transit trips down it. It doesn't connect the squares like a trip through Union does. That's why the buses have never gone on McGrath before.


I think you have that backwards. I am looking at the glass as a quarter full instead of 3/4 empty. The Silver Gateway was indeed intended as the current phase of the most recent Urban Ring project and it is proceeding where they can just pave a ROW and put in a few basic stations/bus stops.
Says who? Who at the state level is saying this? Who is calling it a phase of the UR? No wishful thinking...who is outlining a plan that the UR will be continued when the UR has been struck from the TIP and all studies halted? Names, agencies.

The website is very much still up: http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/theurbanring/

LPA_Figure_thumb.jpg


Or are you talking about previous visions of the Urban Ring?
So how'd that March 3, 2010 meeting at City Hall go? Are they ever gonna get the minutes from that posted on the site so we can see?


You are probably right about the flyover ramps, but that doesn't mean the cheaper segments can't get built. That is my overall point. Build the parts that can be done cheaply first and run the buses on the streets in segments where it can't be done sooner rather than later. If ten years from now you have a bus getting stuck in traffic and you need $30 million for an overpass that is going to be an easier sell than than a couple billion to make the whole thing light rail and build it all at once. Projects wait decades for that kind of money.
Such as? You can't go anywhere else without contending with the flyover ramps. There are no ready-to-go segments you can do a block at a time anywhere else on this project. Including your proposal to somehow connect the Grand Junction to McGrath. There are no mini-builds that serve as a trap for any known transit service. EVERY build going forward is a multi- 9 figure build. We're not paving 1-block strips of busway.

Nobody talks about "Urban Ring" or the Inner Belt because the project isn't ever going to get funded as a single project. Especially if you are talking about new tunnels being dug through Boston (and/or Brookline).
No. It gets funded as whole quadrants because that's the bare minimum you can build that will actually serve a transit trip. Again...every 1 block of extra busway pavement is not a down payment. It has to go somewhere. Innerbelt doesn't go somewhere unless you build it across the river. Everett isn't going to be justifiable vs. an on-street routing to the casino unless you link it across the river. Grand Junction isn't going to be justifiable unless it reaches both Lechmere and BU. Those are builds with $B's.

You're vastly underestimating the size of these "down payments". This isn't an amalgamation of 50 micro-projects. It's 3 or 4 megaprojects to do anything more than this. Hence, they are not pitching this as a UR down payment...because they've stopped UR planning. This is a bootstrap off SL1 and a pre-existing Haul Road to give Chelsea some transit relief. A very sensible plan they can reappropriate for other things later, but it's not the Urban Ring. And nobody is saying so.


According to fattony they run one maybe two trains during the day on Grand Junction. Even if you give trains a two hour window during the day ((and overnight) to run then you have the rest of the day to run BRT. If you are talking about a policy or turf issue, then change the policy and carrot and stick the turf issues. There is no reason a ROW through Cambridge should sit idle most of the time when it could do a lot more good while retaining the existing uses.
No, you don't. Because on street-running track you must treat all pavement as street. Meaning they lay on the horn constantly, go 5 MPH, and stop-and-protect at every intersection. You think Cambridge is going to allow that? At night???

But feel free to Washington and lobby the FRA yourself. I'm sure they'll say, "Well duh...why didn't we think of that? Approved!" They do not make national rules about street-running industrial tracks because they hate the idea of one person's view of optimal utilization of a ROW in Cambridge, MA. It's national policy for national reasons. You're gonna have to make a way, way better argument than that. To the feds, not to ArchBoston.

That is exactly what I am saying. Get an exemption to the FRA regs. If there was ever a place to do it it is on the Grand Junction. With one or two trains per day it (but a need to continue to retain the rail link for that use) it seems like a very obvious need.
The South Shore Line has had continuously operating commuter rail service since 1903. Back when there were no regs. It grandfathered in Michigan City because its service predates the regs entirely, not because NICTD made a great PowerPoint presentation to the FRA board to claim itself an exemption.

You cannot say "Me too!" and extend out hands like an exemption is free candy. It doesn't work that way. There's the matter of a small mountain of federal caselaw you need to disprove to get your exemption for an entirely new installation of mixed-traffic street-running free from the restrictions imposed on those setups.

This will never happen in the real world. To borrow a well-worn phrase, even if every other FRA reg preventing us from having a "first-world" rail network got busted down...this street-running one would with absolute certainty be one of the regs that is still left standing. Because "first-world" countries don't do new installations of street-running mainline rail for expressed purpose of sharing the tracks with bus transit.

So you are declaring Silver Line a failure? You have to look at it systemically. I don't think ridership numbers or projections count as much when you are building on spec for developments that are 30 years out. In the Silver Line case we are talking about supporting the Convention Center and the build out of the Seaport which is still ongoing for at least the next decade. Silver Line will be a failure if it has low ridership in 20 years.
The Silver Line on Washington St. is not BRT, doesn't replace the mode it was supposed to "equal or better" replace, and access to the city's largest bus terminal is poorer than it was 28 years ago as a result. That is an abject failure. The Transitway does not do what it was supposed to do at circulating riders around downtown because Phase III was never built...and unlike Urban Ring "down payments", will never be built as long as BRT is the mode. It also is not keeping up with the ridership demands of the Seaport because the articulated buses don't have tight enough headways to swallow the BCEC crowds at crush load (that thing I said about choosing wisely between 2+ car trolleys and articulated buses when peak demand outstrips the shortest possible headway). That's not a failure of the Transitway segment, but definitely a failure of the lack of downtown connection as it puts so much additional stress on it as a Red Line people-mover. As an Airport connection, however, it's been an unqualified success.

Taken together, though...it's not doing what it was originally tasked with doing. Nor is there a plan to fix this, because they canceled the connecting segment. Not postponed...canceled, because it's impossible to build. It's not getting dusted back off at a later date in BRT form because it can't.

In the case of Grand Junction we are talking about tying Kendall/MIT to Beacon Yards/Harvard and BU via (West Station). Harvard is investing hundreds of millions or billions even in building science labs in Allston and tying the two areas together, as directly as possible, is worth a lot.
And the fact that Harvard is spending money--a lot of money--makes the build feasible and convinces the FRA to grant you the free-candy waiver....why?

I agree that they would need to overcome a significant regulatory obstacle, but getting across Cambridge from East to West with just four or five road crossings on a dedicated busway is too good to pass up even if it does mean a bit of red tape in an FRA exemption.
There's no red tape. Because there will never be an exemption. If this is the linchpin of your plan...there is no plan. Because this is something that will never be allowed.

The rail alternative on Grand Junction is not going to be an Urban Ring however. It would just be either DMU or a GLX Branch to West Station and stopping there. But more likely neither or at least not in our productive lifetimes.
I already explained why the Indigo plan is not a "down payment". It cannot produce the frequencies to make it useful enough. It isn't a useless plan if they can wring out enough slots, because there are some unique destination pairs served and it would be low-cost to operate. But it's a niche at best; it doesn't prime the UR corridor because the frequencies will never ever be good enough. Don't believe me...read the Worcester-North Station study, which lays out the demand profile in stark terms. Red SS-Kendall and Orange BBY-North Station on a multi-seat trip will always...always beat a Grand Junction one-seat on demand every hour of the day Orange and Red aren't paralyzed by rush hour loads. Because frequencies matter too much and more train frequencies to South Station will always generate more demand than diluting frequencies at West.

You can't get those frequencies on the Grand Junction without converting it to a different mode. And as has been explained ad nauseam here, you can't mix RR and BRT modes. Or expect a waiver to do so.

So yes the Urban Ring is dead in its many previous incarnations, but long live the Urban Ring.
It isn't the Urban Ring if it doesn't connect the stuff the Urban Ring was to connect. You might actually want to sit down with the scoping study and see where the ridership is. It's between multiple transfer stations, not a bypass for local square-to-square roots to get 2 blocks of traffic relief at a time. If that's what you're thinking of as the Urban Ring...yeah, I agree. That's not the old plan. It's something else entirely. Unfortunately, the old plan is the thing we most need to build and the only thing that really serves the demand. Including the Phase I Crosstown routes.
 
Says who? Who at the state level is saying this? Who is calling it a phase of the UR? No wishful thinking...who is outlining a plan that the UR will be continued when the UR has been struck from the TIP and all studies halted? Names, agencies.

I'll even second you F-Line and state that at ALL the SLG meetings, it was positioned as totally separate project from the UR.

They did on a number of occasions explain where the idea for the SLG came from, and yes it's apart of the old UR project, but not being built as one.

But is UR alive today.. not at all. Was killed a few years ago. But a few different sections (i.e. SLG) are being built regardless.

I do, however, beg to differ about completing one arch of the UR to Wellington (as a continuation of the busway from Market Basket). It was hinted in the meetings that this could be done when funds are avaliable. It's all about ridership on the SLG. So it's possible. But remember this is the same agency that has been planning the GLX since the 1940s.. :)
 
No, you don't. Because on street-running track you must treat all pavement as street. Meaning they lay on the horn constantly, go 5 MPH, and stop-and-protect at every intersection. You think Cambridge is going to allow that? At night???

But feel free to Washington and lobby the FRA yourself. I'm sure they'll say, "Well duh...why didn't we think of that? Approved!" They do not make national rules about street-running industrial tracks because they hate the idea of one person's view of optimal utilization of a ROW in Cambridge, MA. It's national policy for national reasons. You're gonna have to make a way, way better argument than that. To the feds, not to ArchBoston.

It is a dumb policy if it were to be mindlessly applied to GJ. Grand Junction is a barely used rail link and it would be simple to accommodate the one or two trains on the Grand Junction during clearly specified times. Unless you get an exception to allow street running without the BS requirements, then I think the better alternative is to just rip up the rail on the Grand Junction and go with pavement.
 
This is what I am talking about. Not pipe dreams about ten billion dollar projects. Just looking to pick up the pieces on a few key segments:

Therefore, MassDOT intends to proceed with aspects of the project following a three-part strategy:

(a) the implementation of bus rapid transit (BRT) service in high-value segments of the Urban Ring in a manner consistent with the recommendations of the November 2008 Revised Draft Environmental Impact Report;

(b) the pursuit of other BRT elements, such as the MBTA's ongoing Key Bus Routes initiative, as part of a coordinated strategy of achieving BRT levels of service on other routes in the corridor; and

(c) continued planning, analysis, and civic engagement for the full Project as an integrated system.
 
This is what I am talking about. Not pipe dreams about ten billion dollar projects. Just looking to pick up the pieces on a few key segments:

You do realize that the CT#'s are the Urban Ring Phase I. And are not a ten-billion dollar project, like CT1, CT2, and CT3 weren't ten-billion dollar projects.

  • CT1 - Central Square (Cambridge) to Andrew Station via Massachusetts Avenue
  • CT2 - Sullivan Square to Ruggles via Union Square (Somerville), Kendall Square and Boston University Bridge
  • CT3 - Longwood Medical Area to Airport Station and terminals via Ruggles, Boston Medical Center, and Ted Williams Tunnel
  • CT4 - Ruggles Station to UMass Boston Campus via Dudley Square and Uphams Corner
  • CT5 - Logan Airport to Sullivan Square via Downtown Chelsea, Wellington, and Assembly Square
  • CT6 - Downtown Chelsea to Kendall/MIT via Community College and Lechmere
  • CT7 - Kendall/MIT to Franklin Park via Mass Ave Bridge, Kenmore, Longwood Medical Area, Ruggles, Dudley, and Grove Hall
  • CT8 - Sullivan Square to Longwood Medical Area via Union Square Somerville, Central Square Cambridge, Cambridgeport, Boston University Bridge, and Fenway Station
  • CT9 - Kenmore to Harvard Square via Commonwealth Ave and Allston
  • CT10 - Kenmore to JFK/UMass via Longwood Medical Area, Ruggles, and Boston Medical Center
  • CT11 - Longwood Medical Area to Fields Corner via Ruggles, Boston Medical Center, and Uphams Corner
  • EC1 - Anderson Regional Transportation Center to MIT at Mass Ave via Sullivan Square, Lechmere, and Kendall
  • EC2 - Riverside to Lechmere via Mass Pike, Central Square, and Kendall
  • EC3 - Natick to Copley Square via Mass Pike
So when's the next CT5 coming? Inquiring minds in Chelsea want to know.
 
Just a clarification on use of the Grand Jct:

1) CSX operates Sunday through Thursday to Everett.
On duty in Framingham 130PM.

2) Amtrak Downeaster equipment moves operate as
needed. Until the recent PAR trackwork related
service downgrades, they would normally run moves
once of twice during the week. These moves come in
on the tail end of No.686.

3) MBTA moves happen six days a week. The Readville
Switcher Monday-Friday usually after 11PM to BET
& return. Saturday is usually a dead day on the GJ.
Sunday afternoon usually brings a Southside Terminal
Switcher or Readville Switcher.

However, the Northside Work Train does occasionally
go over to Beacon Park during the day. There are also
power moves from or to BET. Even some Test Trains for
the Worcester Line were run out of BET earlier this year.

Dave
 

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