Volpe Transportation Center Development | Kendall Sq | Cambridge

They WON'T but if it was they owned they building and a contractor built it, then it could be done. Will NEVER happen (as much as I wish it would).
 
equilibria, my suspicion is that MIT will be part of a joint development team. And that was/is one of the reasons this is so under wraps. Another reason for the secrecy could be security factors.
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tysmith and tallisgood, land owned by the Federal government is not subject to zoning. The rights and powers of the sovereign are not to be infringed by a lesser power. The Federal government also need not adhere to local building codes.

But as a matter of practice, the Federal government typically will adhere to local zoning and codes. It does so in an attempt to be a good neighbor.

The following is speculation: As part of the development package, the Federal government might specify that no residential housing have line-of-sight into the new Volpe building, and that any building with line of sight have controlled access. The government might also specify that no building be taller, or appreciably taller the new Volpe.
 
stellarfun said:
The following is speculation: As part of the development package, the Federal government might specify that no residential housing have line-of-sight into the new Volpe building, and that any building with line of sight have controlled access. The government might also specify that no building be taller, or appreciably taller the new Volpe.
Click to expand...

Is there anybody who honestly believes that the Volpe Center is a target? I am sure that much more sensitive high-security stuff goes on in Draper right next door, and they don't have the crazy requirements.

Modern terrorists don't have their sights set on federal office buildings. That sort of thinking is so pre-9/11.
 
stellarfun said:
equilibria, my suspicion is that MIT will be part of a joint development team. And that was/is one of the reasons this is so under wraps. Another reason for the secrecy could be security factors.
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tysmith and tallisgood, land owned by the Federal government is not subject to zoning. The rights and powers of the sovereign are not to be infringed by a lesser power. The Federal government also need not adhere to local building codes.

But as a matter of practice, the Federal government typically will adhere to local zoning and codes. It does so in an attempt to be a good neighbor.

The following is speculation: As part of the development package, the Federal government might specify that no residential housing have line-of-sight into the new Volpe building, and that any building with line of sight have controlled access. The government might also specify that no building be taller, or appreciably taller the new Volpe.
Click to expand...

I don't think security from espionage is a factor for building design. Anything with secret or higher classification is done in windowless rooms anyway.
 
JumboBuc said:
Is there anybody who honestly believes that the Volpe Center is a target? I am sure that much more sensitive high-security stuff goes on in Draper right next door, and they don't have the crazy requirements.

Modern terrorists don't have their sights set on federal office buildings. That sort of thinking is so pre-9/11.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the OKC and 9/11 victims' families will be comforted to know that the form of terrorism their loved ones died from has gone the way of bell bottoms and flannel shirts. Oh wait, those are popular again, aren't they...

The fact is that no form of terrorism goes out of style. That also means that changing all the rules to react to a specific terror attack is more or less futile. You can't protect from every possible threat.

Personally, I don't believe federal buildings need higher security than any other building, but the federal government doesn't agree. That means that having federal buildings in your city sucks and there isn't much any of us can do or say about it.
 
I don't believe that VLOPE would require a higher security clearance than the JFK federal building for example. A few large towers just got approved to be built right next to the JFK federal building.
 
fattony said:
I'm sure the OKC and 9/11 victims' families will be comforted to know that the form of terrorism their loved ones died from has gone the way of bell bottoms and flannel shirts.

The fact is that no form of terrorism goes out of style. That also means that changing all the rules to react to a specific terror attack is more or less futile. You can't protect from every possible threat.

Personally, I don't believe federal buildings need higher security than any other building, but the federal government doesn't agree. That means that having federal buildings in your city sucks and there isn't much any of us can do or say about it.
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Not a single GSA security requirement would do anything to stop a 9/11 style attack. That's my entire point.

And security guidelines absolutely should and do change to reflect the times. That's why new municipal buildings don't have fallout shelters and nothing in London is built with black-out curtains. The current bunker requirements of federal buildings should go the way of the fallout shelter.

"There isn't much any of us can do or say about it" applies to the majority of topics discussed on this forum.
 
The security consideration is more electronic eavesdropping. And as the government will occupy this new building for decades, current-day security needs and considerations could be supplanted by future ones. In any event, all communications conduit lines within a building would likely be shielded by design.

Fattony, top secret and compartmentalized top secret is usually done in window-less rooms. Lesser security levels, not necessarily.
 
DigitalSciGuy said:
I would presume that requirements for building distance from vehicular traffic varies by security level of the federal facility: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_building_security

US DOT does some pretty important research here, but I don't think any of it qualifies for such stringent security requirements. You could achieve required distance from street by narrowing the lanes on Binney St and removing the center median that makes it feel like a highway like Seaport Boulevard - should happen anyway. Then set back the building from Third and Munroe Sts. OR put it in the northern corner along Binney St as part of the L-shaped building, displacing the residential or office to Binney and Third.
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DigitalSciGuy --Have you ever been inside any of the secure areas inside Volpe -- well I have, and I can assure you that there are things going on inside that need the highest levels of security -- they mostly occur in an underground bunker

Volpe not only does research on core technology for DOT -- but it does research using advanced technology on solving real-time problems for other Federal Clients -- such as tracking every government shipment, and displaying in real-time all of the air traffic, rail, ship and road commerce taking place within north america and some beyond

Those kinds of real-time, high value, mission-critical data need very stringent protection -- that's why the bunker -- you can't put that kind of information out in full view of someone on top of a parking garage with equipped with "telescopes"

In addition -- being a government high value facility the Murrah Building Bombing engendered criteria for facility security / occupant safety will apply even more than they currently do -- and that jsut means space
 
JumboBuc said:
Is there anybody who honestly believes that the Volpe Center is a target? I am sure that much more sensitive high-security stuff goes on in Draper right next door, and they don't have the crazy requirements.

Modern terrorists don't have their sights set on federal office buildings. That sort of thinking is so pre-9/11.
Click to expand...

JumboBuc -- Draper is a private corporation -- except if they are doing work for a government agency they will tell their customers what they have in the way of security facilities and the customer will either say yea or nay.

But Draper does indeed conduct high security work for the Federal Governmnet inside their facility and so they have made the necessary provisions

By the way ---- its remarkable what a few meters of earth will do to provide that kind of secure work environment where ease dropping is fairly difficult. Note that for a lot of things such as presentations to groups on mildly sensitive topics a few dark really heavy curtains do a fairly good job at containing both sights and sound. For the "important stuff" you need a fully interior auditorium with no external walls and of course no windows. And for the stuff that Hillary had on her server you need a special space called a SCIF [Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility] -- often in a "bunker"

Volpe would need all of those kinds of facilities to deal both with discussions and design work and also the real-time BiG and Sensitive Data
 
tysmith95 said:
I don't believe that VLOPE would require a higher security clearance than the JFK federal building for example. A few large towers just got approved to be built right next to the JFK federal building.
Click to expand...

TySmith -- ever since th FBI moved out of the JFK -- I doubt that much of anything inside the JFK involves anything except the usual Bureaucratic cover our arses level of security

Back a few decades ago my father's older brother was involved with security for Federal Facilities in the Boston Area -- even then when the FBI was still in the JFK building -- the major threat was junkies stealing typewriters to be pawned

Today they are probably stealing Mac's and MacBooks loaded with Senator Warren's appointment calendar
 
fattony said:
That means that having federal buildings in your city sucks and there isn't much any of us can do or say about it.
Click to expand...

So, looking at the US DOT headquarters I don't see anything particularly obvious from the outside to make it much of a burden on the streetscape. A few extra granite bollards. A bit of a sizable setback from the street by Boston standards, but one which invites people to sit outside along the sidewalk. Some trees along the street. Heck they even have ground level retail (with that herald of civilized city life: Starbucks):

DOT Headquarters
 
DigitalSciGuy --Have you ever been inside any of the secure areas inside Volpe -- well I have, and I can assure you that there are things going on inside that need the highest levels of security -- they mostly occur in an underground bunker.

Never mind that there is a research nuclear reactor (whose chief scientist I have met), quietly working basically across the street. This area was bulldozed for NASA before Kennedy was assassinated. There are things that go on here that are not discussed publicly.
 
tangent said:
So, looking at the US DOT headquarters I don't see anything particularly obvious from the outside to make it much of a burden on the streetscape. A few extra granite bollards. A bit of a sizable setback from the street by Boston standards, but one which invites people to sit outside along the sidewalk. Some trees along the street. Heck they even have ground level retail (with that herald of civilized city life: Starbucks):

DOT Headquarters
Click to expand...

And if you 'Google' drive a bit further on M. St., you come to this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.876...4!1sVyQ3Qhxt_f2j6at28lxonw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
 
Cortes said:
DigitalSciGuy --Have you ever been inside any of the secure areas inside Volpe -- well I have, and I can assure you that there are things going on inside that need the highest levels of security -- they mostly occur in an underground bunker.

Never mind that there is a research nuclear reactor (whose chief scientist I have met), quietly working basically across the street. This area was bulldozed for NASA before Kennedy was assassinated. There are things that go on here that are not discussed publicly.
Click to expand...

Cortes --
you left off the bit about Draper
DigitalSciGuy --Have you ever been inside any of the secure areas inside Volpe -- well I have, and I can assure you that there are things going on inside that need the highest levels of security -- they mostly occur in an underground bunker

Volpe not only does research on core technology for DOT -- but it does research using advanced technology on solving real-time problems for other Federal Clients -- such as tracking every government shipment, and displaying in real-time all of the air traffic, rail, ship and road commerce taking place within north america and some beyond
Click to expand...

JumboBuc -- Draper does indeed conduct high security work for the Federal Government inside their facility and so they have made the necessary provisions

By the way ---- its remarkable what a few meters of earth will do to provide that kind of secure work environment where ease dropping is fairly difficult. Note that for a lot of things such as presentations to groups on mildly sensitive topics a few dark really heavy curtains do a fairly good job at containing both sights and sound. For the "important stuff" you need a fully interior auditorium with no external walls and of course no windows. And for the stuff that Hillary had on her server you need a special space called a SCIF [Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility] -- often in a "bunker"

Volpe would need all of those kinds of facilities to deal both with discussions and design work and also the real-time BiG and Sensitive Data
Click to expand...

Sarcasm or is it imitation is the most sincere form of flattery -- thanks

By the way -- while I have been inside the nuclear reactor containment -- you could have been just as well -- it was on a public tour during the last MIT Open House
 
The setback is 75' from any location where a non screened vehicle would be located.
 
tangent, the Volpe site is 14 acres. GSA has said it will retain four (about 175,000 sq ft). New Volpe is to be a 390,000 sq ft building. 10 floors and a floorplate of 40,000 sq ft will give you that, potentially leaving 135,000 sq ft, more or less, as a buffer.

Where existing Federal buildings are too close to a road, the Federal government will take the road, in whole, or in part.

23rd St NW, west side of State Department

https://goo.gl/maps/G9kr1CaXnQN2

^^^From 2007. Lousy aesthetics when taking the curb lane.

https://goo.gl/maps/vhi7BGAZ1E12

From more recently, flower power. The street at frame right was closed, and access is controlled.
 
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