Widett Circle Development, so it begins.

[JeffDowntown]

Major parts of flood prone developable lands should be made into wetlands. This should have happened at Cambridge Crossing and should now happen at Widett Circle. This mad rush to zip up areas that were historically marshlands, wetlands and creeks is extremely short-sighted given the reality of worldwide climate change. And besides, it benefits a city (and developments) to have some natural open space to break up the sprawlsville.

I am not quite sure what you are suggesting here. We cannot exactly turn Southampton and Cabot Yards back into marshland! There really isn't any seriously developable land here, at least not without decking (and that means it's not land, it's air rights).

 

[Charlie_mta]

I am not quite sure what you are suggesting here. We cannot exactly turn Southampton and Cabot Yards back into marshland! There really isn't any seriously developable land here, at least not without decking (and that means it's not land, it's air rights).

You're right; we can't undo decades of zero planning with regards to flood management. After all, Boston's entire history has been one of filling in vast areas of marshes, rivers and wetlands with no thought to potential long-term flooding consequences. But at least now, when new developments come up, this should be looked at. We can't completely undo the past, but we can at least move forward a bit more wisely.

 

[DrFreewind]

Hope this has not been said before, but I would love to see the relocation of the USPS facility here. Perfect place, easy highway access, no residential areas closeby for NIMBYs to complain, already an area of heavy trucking.
Would free up that prime fort point real estate

 

[Stlin]

You're right; we can't undo decades of zero planning with regards to flood management. After all, Boston's entire history has been one of filling in vast areas of marshes, rivers and wetlands with no thought to potential long-term flooding consequences. But at least now, when new developments come up, this should be looked at. We can't completely undo the past, but we can at least move forward a bit more wisely.

Out of curiosity.... This is definitely crazy pitch material, but if we're looking at restoring Widett to wetlands and keeping it available for CR yard space, is there any possibility of basically putting the yard tracks on stilts over marsh or other permeable surface? Runoff and maint would be a massive concern in this scenario though.

 

[Stlin]

@F-Line; This should make you happy: this is in the new funding section of todays CIP preview:

 

[Aprehensive_Words]

The T wants about 25 percent of the site for MBCR rail yards, with an eye towards South Coast Rail:

MBTA Moves to Buy Part of Widett Circle

What was once floated as the site for an Olympic stadium could, in part, find its future as a rail yard for Greater Boston's expanding fleet of regional rail trains.

bankerandtradesman.com

In a statement today, the MBTA said the layover facility at Widett Circle would lessen congestion and provide opportunities to upgrade the frequency of service on the Fairmount commuter rail line. It also would increase capacity for the future South Coast rail project to Fall River.

EDIT: found the press release: https://www.mbta.com/news/2022-12-1...tt-circle-property-commuter-rail-layover-yard

The MBTA Board of Directors today authorized the T to begin negotiations for the purchase of approximately 24 acres of land at Widett Circle, located one mile from Boston’s South Station, for a new commuter rail layover yard to service and store trains overnight and between trips.

Existing layover facilities utilized by the MBTA are at or beyond capacity and impose significant operating inefficiencies. This is particularly challenging today due to the limited rail space available near South Station. Locating the layover facility at Widett Circle will reduce the time that trains must layover at South Station, which will increase capacity for additional rail services at the station, such as the future South Coast Rail.

Use of Widett Circle as a layover facility will also lessen congestion on the Fairmount line and provide the opportunity to increase service along that line. While the MBTA plans to use all 24 acres on the Widett Circle site, it anticipates future conversations with the City of Boston regarding the City’s adjacent properties and collaborations with the City’s nearby assets and interests.

As part of the South Station Expansion (SSX) project, the MBTA identified Widett Circle as a critical location to provide layover functions on the south side of the Commuter Rail network, and a yard at Widett Circle was included in the SSX State and Federal environmental filings that won approval in 2016 and 2017.

 

[Charlie_mta]

The T wants about 25 percent of the site for MBCR rail yards, with an eye towards South Coast Rail:

MBTA Moves to Buy Part of Widett Circle

What was once floated as the site for an Olympic stadium could, in part, find its future as a rail yard for Greater Boston's expanding fleet of regional rail trains.

bankerandtradesman.com

EDIT: found the press release: https://www.mbta.com/news/2022-12-1...tt-circle-property-commuter-rail-layover-yard

I'd prefer the MBTA yard be further out in a low density area. But if they have to build it here, at least lay it out so that future air rights can feasibly be developed over it, integrated with the rest of the future development of the Widett Circle area,

 

[stefal]

I'd prefer the MBTA yard be further out in a low density area. But if they have to build it here, at least lay it out so that future air rights can feasibly be developed over it, integrated with the rest of the future development of the Widett Circle area,

Would work best if they coincide the construction of the yard and the development together..

 

[393b40]

The T wants about 25 percent of the site for MBCR rail yards, with an eye towards South Coast Rail:

Lets use up prime real estate for SCR... a train service that has like 10 total passengers.

Brilliant!

 

[stellarfun]

MBTA owns about 40 acres for the existing Cabot Yard. City of Boston owns about 18 acres for public works and towed car storage. Private developers were buying 25 acres that was the site of the food warehouses, which were relocating.

That was where things stood 4-5 years ago. It would seem that the MBTA wants to buy the development site.

 

[king_vibe]

Lets use up prime real estate for SCR... a train service that has like 10 total passengers.

Brilliant!

This is a flood-prone area of land completely encircled by rail tracks and elevated highways. It's a miserable 15 minute walk to the nearest train station. By what measure is this prime real estate?

 

[393b40]

This is a flood-prone area of land completely encircled by rail tracks and elevated highways. It's a miserable 15 minute walk to the nearest train station. By what measure is this prime real estate?

Location is central to several districts, your complaints are addressable

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

MBTA owns about 40 acres for the existing Cabot Yard. City of Boston owns about 18 acres for public works and towed car storage. Private developers were buying 25 acres that was the site of the food warehouses, which were relocating.

That was where things stood 4-5 years ago. It would seem that the MBTA wants to buy the development site.

The private developers who did buy it (see first post of this thread) haven't even filed any proposals after making much noise about warehousing and this and that. They're just cynically land-parking it. Because of that bit of nastiness, it would make more sense to put the state in charge of development. It's pretty much the only way it's going to return any value now.

I don't know about the maintenance buildings that were shown on one of the T Board presentation's renders (those were under study to go to Readville instead), but if it's pure train storage there's absolutely no reason why it couldn't be easily laid out to support the mythical air rights decking.

 

[real_EthanHunt]

The private developers who did buy it (see first post of this thread) haven't even filed any proposals after making much noise about warehousing and this and that. They're just cynically land-parking it.

thats not accurate. even the first post of this thread does not go back far enough to include the entire process of whats been attempted.

 

[shmessy]

…………Because of that bit of nastiness, it would make more sense to put the state in charge of development. It's pretty much the only way it's going to return any value now…..

I feel better about this scenario days away from slow-rolling Gov Studebaker packing up his horse and buggy and taking his 2040 West Station Study plans out of the State House in favor of a Governor who, at least at this juncture, is making positive noises about moving things towards the 20th and maybe 21st centuries.

 

[Equilibria]

Instead of a train yard, Boston's Widett Circle could have hosted 24 million square feet of development and a new city hall.

What Widett Might Have Been

The real estate investor that controls Boston’s Widett Circle once envisioned a 24 million-square-foot development spanning approximately 100 acres off Interstate 93, including a new Boston City Hall and 30-acre central park.

bankerandtradesman.com

I'm sure Able Development has all sorts of things they obviously would have built at Widett if the evil MBTA hadn't stopped. Them. Widett could have hosted a soccer stadium! A addiction treatment center! A paddock for unicorns!

 

[stefal]

What Widett Might Have Been

The real estate investor that controls Boston’s Widett Circle once envisioned a 24 million-square-foot development spanning approximately 100 acres off Interstate 93, including a new Boston City Hall and 30-acre central park.

bankerandtradesman.com

I'm sure Able Development has all sorts of things they obviously would have built at Widett if the evil MBTA hadn't stopped. Them. Widett could have hosted a soccer stadium! A addiction treatment center! A paddock for unicorns!

The Able Co. described a Widett Circle development that would have dwarfed New York’s Hudson Yards: a “full neighborhood, including office, manufacturing, worker housing, civic buildings (including proposed new city hall) with central 30-plus acre park with playing fields and performance space.”

Kinda silly to compare anything that could-be in Boston to Hudson Yards.

Sure, decking is expensive, but this really isn't the end of the world. If anything, decking above the new rail yard might work better in terms of decreasing the isolation that will be inherent on this site.

 

[Equilibria]

Kinda silly to compare anything that could-be in Boston to Hudson Yards.

Sure, decking is expensive, but this really isn't the end of the world. If anything, decking above the new rail yard might work better in terms of decreasing the isolation that will be inherent on this site.

Beyond the absurdity that you even can "dwarf" Hudson Yards - a development made up of many 1,000+ foot buildings, Hudson Yards isn't seen as a success by people who aren't in high-end real estate.

 

[king_vibe]

There shouldn’t be anything of value built here except for marshland.

 

[curcuas]

Kinda silly to compare anything that could-be in Boston to Hudson Yards.

Sure, decking is expensive, but this really isn't the end of the world. If anything, decking above the new rail yard might work better in terms of decreasing the isolation that will be inherent on this site.

Plus, until the Pike is decked all the way out to the Newton line, I don't see any reason you'd build decks elsewhere.