Raffles Boston (40 Trinity Place) | 426 Stuart Street | Back Bay

Yeah, in the original announcement it stated that it would be a residence with lots of hotel-like amenities, branded by St. Regis. So, there will be no lobby bar for you to buy a $25 jack and coke.
 
Nice artist renders up on TAT's 40 Trinity site....

http://www.architecturalteam.com/projects/40-trinity-place/







atlantaden said:
Haha, I think it's about damn time to get this project moving especially since it was approved back on 11/20/2013! Seriously, and the PNF was presented to the BRA on 10/30/2012!
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yes but after the notice of project change was filed, it was another 2 and a half years (April 14th 2016) for final BPDA approval.

Most puzzling; the building permit was granted on Nov 21st 2016.

Still; going on 3 years to get u/c? wtf??

Were they unsuccessful getting their construction financing?
 
 
stoweker said:
As of early december, they were still looking for money. What i've heard is that they are having trouble getting investors to sign off on the Raffles flag as there's limited US exposure / not much in way of brand contribution so it is a tough deal to underwrite.
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Ok so I'm not the only one who has never heard of the brand. When it was first announced I was ready to complain about naming a hotel after a bag of Ruffles chips. Had to do some research to see what it was all about.

Then again, I don't think I'm their target audience...
 
You guys need to get out and travel more often.

Raffles is owned by Accor, which owns the Fairmont Brand as well as hotels more popular in Europe, such as Sofitel, Ibis, Novotel and Mercure.

Investors may be concerned that this hotel will be a block from the Fairmont, the other Accor luxury hotel in Boston.

Raffles is big in Asia, but has a limited presence in Europe and none in the US. I think Asian business and wealthy leisure travelers would definitely select Raffles and with the tight hotel market in Boston, I am sure many others would follow suit.

Select "Our Brands" to get an idea of Accor's portfolio.
https://www.accorhotels.com/gb/usa/index.shtml
 
Czervik.Construction said:
You guys need to get out and travel more often.

Raffles is owned by Accor, which owns the Fairmont Brand as well as hotels more popular in Europe, such as Sofitel, Ibis, Novotel and Mercure.

Investors may be concerned that this hotel will be a block from the Fairmont, the other Accor luxury hotel in Boston.

Raffles is big in Asia, but has a limited presence in Europe and none in the US. I think Asian business and wealthy leisure travelers would definitely select Raffles and with the tight hotel market in Boston, I am sure many others would follow suit.

Select "Our Brands" to get an idea of Accor's portfolio.
https://www.accorhotels.com/gb/usa/index.shtml
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Yeah, Raffles is a big name in the Far East. I understand there being some apprehension by investors since this is the first foray into the Americas, but you gotta start somewhere. Once it established itself, I have no doubt it would be extremely popular.
 
The original Raffles is in Singapore dating from colonial times, but you all you travel vets knew that!
 
tobyjug said:
The original Raffles is in Singapore dating from colonial times, but you all you travel vets knew that!
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Yeah, I find it surprising that the ultra-luxury crowd in a global city like boston wouldn't at least recognize the name.

I think they might be pitching this to the wrong investors.

The luxury end of Boston's hotel market might be saturated, but there's such a lack of supply at the lower end that staying in more expensive hotels doesn't look so bad when rooms at a much lower quality hotel are only slightly cheaper. I would know, I live just far enough away where I frequently decide to spend a weekend in Boston rather than day trips. All qualities of hotels within Boston proper are usually in a very similar price range with each other, despite drastic differences in quality, with a few outliers at the very top end with the likes of the Mandarin Oriental and Four Seasons. But in general whenever I'm looking at 4 star hotels in good locations seem to be in the same price range as a 3 star in a God awful location.

And in comparison with other major cities it's not because the rooms are cheap. I stayed in an extremely nice hotel in DC (the Jefferson, I highly recommend, luxurious without feeling stuffy) for about the same price as I pay for average rooms in Boston.

We have so few hotel rooms in Boston I sincerely doubt another luxury hotel would have trouble filling rooms outside of the low occupancy months of January and February.
 
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It seems weird they would have shut down the old (conceivably profitable) hotel without the financing for this all lined up.
 
stoweker said:
Also set aside the fact that the Boston luxury hotel market is pretty saturated as-is, I'm personally not really sure if there's need for a new 5 star hotel in the city.
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You have clearly never tried to book a hotel room in Boston if you think the hotel market is pretty saturated. I paid $300 for a night at the Courtyard North Station (which is actually pretty nice). Any hotel room in Boston at any rate is expensive and hard to get.
 
navigator4 said:
You have clearly never tried to book a hotel room in Boston if you think the hotel market is pretty saturated. I paid $300 for a night at the Courtyard North Station (which is actually pretty nice). Any hotel room in Boston at any rate is expensive and hard to get.
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Room cleaners (chambermaids) start at $28/hour plus tips. Also hotels are taxed to the hilt by the city. That's Boston!
 
The developer should seek a partner.

Millennium Partners are tough negotiators.... but obscenely rich.
 
That is exactly my point. I stayed at the Loews not too long ago and it was over $400 / night. I know the Loews on the upper end, but it is not 4 Seasons / Ritz / Mandarin level. I think there is room for more luxury hotels in Boston (as well as just more hotels in general).

navigator4 said:
You have clearly never tried to book a hotel room in Boston if you think the hotel market is pretty saturated. I paid $300 for a night at the Courtyard North Station (which is actually pretty nice). Any hotel room in Boston at any rate is expensive and hard to get.
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stoweker said:
Not really.... hotel business is highly cyclical and there's limited demand growth right now / flattening RevPAR growth. Boston has a healthy market right now, no need to dump a ton of new supply into it.
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I'm pretty sure there would be plenty of demand if prices weren't insane. Like I mentioned before, I can stay in far more luxurious hotels in most other major cities for what I pay for the average room in Boston. And I spend weekends in Boston during the offseason!

Anyone who's casually looking for a destination to visit (rather than obligated to as with business travel) will probably look at a different city after looking at hotel prices in Boston.

I don't think a market that has been chronically under-supplied to the point of unaffordable prices will behave the same when you dump supply into the market as cities that don't suffer from the same problem.

It's like the housing market, once prices become unaffordable to a middle class income sales will slow, but demand for anything below that financial cut off point is still high.

With the numbers you brought into the picture, that's even further proof of my point. $196 ADR isn't cheap and is probably around the upper price limit for middle class, upper middle class, travelers.

The flat RevPAR would indicate that with all new supply coming online there is not flat demand. That's more visitors, bringing more overall money into the market.

Also those numbers vary depending on where you get info:

http://www.pkfboston.com/publications/trends-in-the-hotel-industry/q3-2018/

and a comparison of U.S. cities using 2017 numbers:

https://www.statista.com/statistics...ities-in-the-us-ordered-by-hotel-prices-2010/

This has monthly comparisons:
https://www.bostonusa.com/media/statistics-reports/hotel-openings-statistics/

We're too damn expensive for the average tourist and businesses are sending their travelers further and further out into the boonies to save money.
 
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Terrible situation.

Boston market could probably handle the equivalent of 2 more Four Seasons
and 1 or 2 MT scaled projects in the coming years.

To see a developer performing so poorly in a strong good market is disappointing.
 
I was initially optimistic but I think if there was demand for more luxury hotels you’d have had Marriott, Hilton and Hyatt fighting to slap one of their luxury flags on this.
 
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