MBTA Buses & Infrastructure

FK4 said:
All this boils down to a lot of propaganda/image making that IS in effect designed to minimize the absence of real transit reforms that were promised. Is it better than a regular bus? Yes. And if they simply said, “we’re putting in a deluxe bus route and that’s it for now” then that would have been honest. But slapping a bunch of paint and calling something a line when it’s not does not make it so. I hate saying “lipstick on a pig” since for whatever reason that’s something people are obsessed with saying on here, but it’s an apt description in this case.
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I entirely agree, as-implemented every one of your criticisms is warranted.
 
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Brattle Loop said:
It's not a bad idea to revise how the branding is done, though I don't know that scrapping the Silver Line only to replace it with transit-line-size yellow for BRT-ish necessarily is the best solution (though that might only be because I'm having trouble visualizing it in my head and don't have time at the moment to mock up what it might look like to actually be able to see).

I think it's exaggerating a bit to say that the Silver Line was clearly a bullshit move by the T. It was never completed properly because Phase III collapsed under the weight of the enormous engineering difficulties blowing the cost out beyond all recognition. If it had been built, it would still be a fairly-cruddy line, especially on Washington Street and outside the Transitway, but it probably would have worked as a functional (if somewhat subpar) transit line. Of course, those engineering difficulties were the result of them shotgun-marrying two unrelated transit needs, which was a cynical decision and unforced error, and the fact that Phase III wasn't built means that now the Silver Line label is meaningless, so I agree that as-implemented it is bullshit, but I would at least in part disagree with the implication that it always was (though I agree that it was stupidly designed from the get-go and an inherently inferior Elevated replacement).
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Even in the transitway, the SL is slower than stalled traffic on the surface. It is a total clusterf*** -- and does not deserve any suggestion that it is rapid transit. It was a BS snow job from the start.
 
Brattle Loop said:
I think it's exaggerating a bit to say that the Silver Line was clearly a bullshit move by the T.
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The half-ass busline on Washington Street (aka Silverline) was absolutely and totally a political ploy to subdue the Roxbury community and transit groups who really wanted an LRV Green line branch from Tremont tunnel to Dudley. The bait and switch with the aborted bus tunnel between South Cove and South Station was BS from the start. Nobody really cared about a one-seat ride to Logan from Roxbury. They did care about an LRV line tied into the Green Line. The whole Silverline bus thing on Washington St really fries me, especially because Roxbury is a community of color and transit planning in the 20th (and 21st) centuries has always been: how can we route lines so that the Roxbury people aren't on the transit lines feeding into other parts of the metro area? How can we stop "crime trains" from coming into our prissy, provincial villages? I truly believe the Green Line to Dudley was shot down because the politicians didn't want a lot of people of color on the Green Line system, which has historically served pretty much white areas. Sorry to bring the race thing into this, but it was a significant piece to the way things developed.
 
Charlie_mta said:
Sorry to bring the race thing into this, but it was a significant piece to the way things developed.
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We should all apologize for not bringing race and income into transportation discussion and planning. We pay a heavy fare every day for the purposeful actions and inactions of past Bostonians in regard to race and class. Redlining isn’t just a way to get suburbanites downtown from Alewife. It’s what defined who would win on whose back.
 
Even in the transitway, the SL is slower than stalled traffic on the surface
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You might as well add capacity to that list as well. I was a day 1 rider of the SL from South Station to the WTC stop. This was when the Seaport was still full of parking lots and, had I wanted to, I could park across the street from my office at WTC West for $8/day. My experience was that the buses were overcrowded during commuting hours, and virtually empty at any other hour.
 
Has anyone been paying attention to the transitway proposal for Western Ave (in Allston-Brighton)?

It’s really ambitious and exciting (imo). To make room for protected bike lanes and the transitway, on-street parking will be eliminated (along western Ave.) and cars would be limited to one lane. (The lane for cars would be east bound for half the length of the transitway and westbound for the other) I'm hoping we can get something so ambitious!
 
Urban_Hermit said:
Has anyone been paying attention to the transitway proposal for Western Ave (in Allston-Brighton)?

It’s really ambitious and exciting (imo). To make room for protected bike lanes and the transitway, on-street parking will be eliminated (along western Ave.) and cars would be limited to one lane. (The lane for cars would be east bound for half the length of the transitway and westbound for the other) I'm hoping we can get something so ambitious!
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Link?
 
Riverside said:
23, 28, and 29 will run fare-free for two years starting in March, covered by federal Covid relief funds.

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I can see an issue with so explicitly making this an issue for specific ethnic groups common in just the specific neighborhoods in question.

As a pilot program, fine, but if they’re going to do this, they should roll it out to the entire system.
 
DominusNovus said:
I can see an issue with so explicitly making this an issue for specific ethnic groups common in just the specific neighborhoods in question.

As a pilot program, fine, but if they’re going to do this, they should roll it out to the entire system.
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MadMax_ThatsBait.gif

But I'll bite.

First, nowhere in the City's press release, nor in any of the quotes in the article, does any City official "make this an issue for specific ethnic groups". Neither the article nor the press release once mention "black, African-American, Latino, Hispanic," or "ethnic"; the sole mention of such things comes as the Globe cites LivableStreets in noting the well-known fact that the bus routes in question serve a lot of low-income people of color. The only person in this discussion so far who has "made it an issue for specific ethnic groups" is, well, you.

And even if they were making this about specific ethnic groups (which, again, they are not): countless American institutions, from the 1600s up to this very day, public and private, already "make it about specific ethnic groups", but do so in order to harm the individuals in those groups. And not just in the South!

In living memory, white Bostonians have violently attacked and assaulted Black people to enforce racial segregation. Look up the Boston school desegregation crisis, look up Carson Beach -- and note that in that second article we learn that some white folks in Southie still feel entitled to yell slurs at Black people and tell them to "go back to Roxbury".

Even if you believe that the Civil Rights Movement solved all the problems of segregation, Jim Crow, and slavery (which it did not), that still means that white families in Boston had three hundred years to build up wealth, during which Black families in Boston (who have been here from the beginning) were legally, socially, and violently excluded from doing the same. I'm not saying that all white people in Boston have three centuries' worth of wealth -- but nearly everyone who does is white, and even more modest levels of wealth were explicitly denied to Black Bostonians for centuries.

Something as simple as home ownership was deliberately and intentionally denied to Black Bostonians; if it weren't for redlining, many more Black millennials in Boston today might own a home, bequeathed by their grandparents. Instead, the median net worth for non-immigrant Black families in Greater Boston is almost non-existent, or at least otherwise radically less than their white neighbors.

(And let's not even get into the BPD.)

Boston has a long tradition of racial segregation, racial violence, and racial injustice. (And it doesn't matter if we're "not as bad" as other places; bad is still bad.) We have an obligation to stop the acts of ongoing harm and an equal obligation to undo the harm that was caused by centuries of oppressing our own residents.

The law can be tricky with regard to racial justice, especially programs that are geared explicitly toward undoing harm that was done to particular groups. I'm no expert on that.

But from a moral standpoint: if Boston did decide to eliminate fares on some bus routes that serve majority-minority neighborhoods, intending it as a small form of reparations (which, again, is not what is happening here), that would fucking be okay.
 
Vagabond said:
Didn't really read the rest. Sounds like it will benefit the livability of the city. Sounds good- let's try it!
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Oh yeah, absolutely. And I saw someone arguing with @shmessy over in the Globe comments about this "only" being for three routes for two years, and I'm just like, "Nah, that sounds f-bleep-ing amazing to me."

(Also -- and this is much nerdier, but -- all-door boarding!)
 
Vagabond said:
Didn't really read the rest. Sounds like it will benefit the livability of the city. Sounds good- let's try it!
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There's some more info on some of the research and advocacy that they've done on this topic on their website. I think some of the base line research was started by MAPC, too.

These three fare-free bus routes will be an amazing benefit to riders, not just due to fares but also because of the time-savings to @Riverside's point. All-door boarding + bus lanes can really provide a virtuous effect in terms of improving the service in a real way. It'll be interesting to see how the 29 does with this pilot since it also travels along the new Columbus Ave bus lanes near Egleston.
 
Riverside said:
Oh yeah, absolutely. And I saw someone arguing with @shmessy over in the Globe comments about this "only" being for three routes for two years, and I'm just like, "Nah, that sounds f-bleep-ing amazing to me."

(Also -- and this is much nerdier, but -- all-door boarding!)
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Yeah, Bostonians can be a pretty grumpy bunch. Name me one other city in the history of our planet that ever told the Summer Olympics “Go Away!”

I hope Mayor Wu can expand this to many more routes going forward. The big effect would be to ease the mobility of city workers to jobs and economic opportunity. It’s no give away. It’s giving people a step ladder. This is why I’d be willing to bet that the business community (which is having trouble filling job openings) would be strong supporters of this.

And yes to the all door boarding. Let’s keep the people moving throughout the city quickly and efficiently.
 
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shmessy said:
Name me one other city in the history of our planet that ever told the Summer Olympics “Go Away!”
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Didn't Hamburg have a referendum on the prospect of hosting in 2024 where they rejected a bid as well?

shmessy said:
And yes to the all door boarding. Let’s keep the people moving throughout the city quickly and efficiently.
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Watch the T find some way to screw up such a no-brainer improvement.
 
Riverside said:
MadMax_ThatsBait.gif

But I'll bite.

First, nowhere in the City's press release, nor in any of the quotes in the article, does any City official "make this an issue for specific ethnic groups". Neither the article nor the press release once mention "black, African-American, Latino, Hispanic," or "ethnic"; the sole mention of such things comes as the Globe cites LivableStreets in noting the well-known fact that the bus routes in question serve a lot of low-income people of color. The only person in this discussion so far who has "made it an issue for specific ethnic groups" is, well, you.

[snip]

But from a moral standpoint: if Boston did decide to eliminate fares on some bus routes that serve majority-minority neighborhoods, intending it as a small form of reparations (which, again, is not what is happening here), that would fucking be okay.

But from a moral standpoint: if Boston did decide to eliminate fares on some bus routes that serve majority-minority neighborhoods, intending it as a small form of reparations (which, again, is not what is happening here), that would fucking be okay.
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You specifically cite where the article mentions the racial angle and then say I’m the one that has brought that into the conversation. Just because it doesn’t specify one specific racial group, but a variety of non-white groups, does not change the fact that the article presents this as a consideration. And I’ll note that one could easily read your post in a very accusatory tone toward me.

I’m not saying don’t do things for groups that have it harder 5 than others, I’m saying that, by emphasizing focusing on them, it can be counterproductive. Especially because there are legal issues surrounding favoring groups on racial or ethnic lines - no matter if some think doing so is warranted - which you also acknowledge. I’m saying the same thing. Do this across the entire mbta bus system (or at least within the city limits) and you’ll still be benefitting the groups that need it the most.

Or, if you don’t find that compelling, consider the adage “programs for the poor become poor programs.”
 
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