General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

[Delvin4519]

And maybe this is just my bias because it's my home station, but I think (at least based on predicted ridership numbers) Gilman Square is the busiest station north of Lechmere (except maybe Medford/Tufts). It feels like it would make more sense to express from there instead of East Somerville.

A couple days ago I was on an absolutely packed train and I overhead our operator arguing with dispatch after they asked us to express from East Somerville to Medford/Tufts. The operator made the argument that unloading a crush loaded train would eliminate most of the time savings from expressing, which was apparently convincing, because we didn't express—and then the train really emptied out at Gilman.

How many possible express routes are there across the entire MBTA system?

I know someone on reddit posted about Harvard to Alewife express trains on the Red Line.

On the Green Line E branch Brigham - Northeastern can be used for express, and it seems East Somerville - Medford is another segment used for express.

Not sure about the B, C, or D branches. Although I'd assume Harvard Ave (B), Coolidge Corner (C), and Riverside and Reservior (D) are used as start or endpoints for express.

Does the Orange and Blue lines never use express trains? Are there any other station pairs on the Red Line used for express?

 

[JeffDowntown]

How many possible express routes are there across the entire MBTA system?

I know someone on reddit posted about Harvard to Alewife express trains on the Red Line.

On the Green Line E branch Brigham - Northeastern can be used for express, and it seems East Somerville - Medford is another segment used for express.

Not sure about the B, C, or D branches. Although I'd assume Harvard Ave (B), Coolidge Corner (C), and Riverside and Reservior (D) are used as start or endpoints for express.

Does the Orange and Blue lines never use express trains? Are there any other station pairs on the Red Line used for express?

I have seen Orange do random express runs when the schedule is way out of whack. Like Back Bay to State or even North Station; North Station or State to Back Bay (skipping transfers due to crowding).

 

[bigeman312]

I have on multiple occassions seen the Orange Line express from Ruggles to Forest Hills. This may be the most common and logical stretch to express the Orange Line to correct headways. I say that as somebody whose home station gets skipped when that happens.

 

[HenryAlan]

Not sure about the B, C, or D branches. Although I'd assume Harvard Ave (B), Coolidge Corner (C), and Riverside and Reservior (D) are used as start or endpoints for express.

Does the Orange and Blue lines never use express trains? Are there any other station pairs on the Red Line used for express?

When I lived on the B-Line, it wasn't that uncommon to get express trains between Blanford and Packard's Corner. For Orange Line, I've experienced various express pairings involving Back Bay, Ruggles, Jackson, and Forest Hills.

 

[nbcoram]

How many possible express routes are there across the entire MBTA system?

I know someone on reddit posted about Harvard to Alewife express trains on the Red Line.

On the Green Line E branch Brigham - Northeastern can be used for express, and it seems East Somerville - Medford is another segment used for express.

Not sure about the B, C, or D branches. Although I'd assume Harvard Ave (B), Coolidge Corner (C), and Riverside and Reservior (D) are used as start or endpoints for express.

Does the Orange and Blue lines never use express trains? Are there any other station pairs on the Red Line used for express?

The rule is we can now only be only expressed between ADA-accessible stations. This doesn't matter that much on the heavy rail with the one inaccessible stop being Bowdoin, which you couldn't express past no matter how much you try (at least till Red-Blue is done then *every* train will express past the current station site, but I digress); however, this matters quite a bit on the Green.

Coolidge Corner and Washington Square, then Washington to Cleveland Circle, are extremely common on the C - they will even often give it as one command "Coolidge to Washington and Washington back". Sometimes you'll see St. Mary's to Coolidge. On the B, a very common one is Harvard Ave to Washington St, then Washington to BC; you also get BU East to Babcock or Harvard a lot, and sometimes they will run express from Kenmore. In the past, as @HenryAlan noted, Blandford to Packard's Corner used to be common from what I've heard too, but with the newer ADA rules they really aren't supposed to do that anymore.

The D and E give you more options with more accessible stations to work with. Brigham to Northeastern is by far the most common on the E, then East Somerville to Medford. The D is all over the place, but they will basically always stop at Reservoir and most of the time they stop at Woodland; besides that, there are many possible combinations that are used on the D.

Occasionally, they will also express on the inbound -- I got expressed from Riverside to Newton Highlands on Monday.

I've seen Ruggles to Forest Hills trips go express on the Orange, though it isn't common these days as they still are not quite back at pre-covid service levels.

I can't say I've ever heard of it happening on the Blue Line, I'd be interested to know if it's ever happened and what stations they'd even skip -- if it's ever happened, Orient Heights to Wonderland would by far make the most sense.

 

[HenryAlan]

In the past, as @HenryAlan noted, Blandford to Packard's Corner used to be common from what I've heard too, but with the newer ADA rules they really aren't supposed to do that anymore.

Right, I should have mentioned that I haven't been a regular B-Line rider in more than 25 years. I don't think there were any ADA compliant surface stations in those days.

 

[BosMaineiac]

When I lived on the B-Line, it wasn't that uncommon to get express trains between Blanford and Packard's Corner. For Orange Line, I've experienced various express pairings involving Back Bay, Ruggles, Jackson, and Forest Hills.

I’ve also experienced this, but usually from Blandford to Harvard Ave

 

[stefal]

The T's response on the slower than expected green line is essentially that it's old and will likely always be slow, but now it's safe.

Nothing wrong with the safe part, but they were advertising 9 minutes of saved trip time with the removal of these slow zones, and they've been very public in the past about saved trip time...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755901227060035645

 

[HenryAlan]

So they have made it safe and potentially faster, depending on equipment, dispatch, and other circumstances. So there may be some trains that traverse the route in 9 minutes less time here and there, just not something we should expect as a regular performance. I agree that more communications clarity up front would have been good, but overall, I can accept this result. GLT is happening, and in the mean time, it should at least be more reliable.

 

[Blackbird]

So they have made it safe and potentially faster, depending on equipment, dispatch, and other circumstances. So there may be some trains that traverse the route in 9 minutes less time here and there, just not something we should expect as a regular performance. I agree that more communications clarity up front would have been good, but overall, I can accept this result. GLT is happening, and in the mean time, it should at least be more reliable.

Which subsection of GLT projects is going to decrease travel time?

Green Line Program | Projects | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.

www.mbta.com

 

[Teban54]

Which subsection of GLT projects is going to decrease travel time?

Green Line Program | Projects | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.

www.mbta.com

Not an explicit goal in GLT, but:

• Bigger vehicles (two-car Type 10s) improving capacity, thus reducing dwell times
• More reliable vehicles reducing breakdown rates
• Signal upgrades and train protection system upgrades, which may possible resolve some of the ridiculousness in the present-day signal system (though that part I'm less certain about)

 

[Teban54]

I almost stalled on the incline coming toward Science Park.

First of all, thank you so much for the insights.

I have a long-standing question about this part. As I mentioned here, a Reddit comment claimed that between Science Park and North Station, signals are set up such that in both directions, if two trains are close together, the succeeding train cannot enter the steep incline between Science Park's platform and at least the turnback (if not North Station's platforms) until the preceding train has cleared the entire section. This poses a capacity limit on the section and GLX.

Is this true? If yes, do you have any idea whether this is a safety precaution, or just drawbacks of the signal system (that can possibly be improved in the future)?

 

[737900er]

Which subsection of GLT projects is going to decrease travel time?

Green Line Program | Projects | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.

www.mbta.com

Will GLPTS bring more lenient operating rules (for example, allowing two trains to berth on the same platform again) or will it be so strict as to slow the whole thing down even more?

 

[TrolleybusFoaming]

The D and E give you more options with more accessible stations to work with. Brigham to Northeastern is by far the most common on the E, then East Somerville to Medford. The D is all over the place, but they will basically always stop at Reservoir and most of the time they stop at Woodland; besides that, there are many possible combinations that are used on the D.

As a D branch rider, by far the most common express I see is Reservoir to Longwood; especially pre-COVID, it would happen nearly every morning. I also see Newton Centre to Woodland sometimes, but not nearly as often.

 

[nbcoram]

First of all, thank you so much for the insights.

I have a long-standing question about this part. As I mentioned here, a Reddit comment claimed that between Science Park and North Station, signals are set up such that in both directions, if two trains are close together, the succeeding train cannot enter the steep incline between Science Park's platform and at least the turnback (if not North Station's platforms) until the preceding train has cleared the entire section. This poses a capacity limit on the section and GLX.

Is this true? If yes, do you have any idea whether this is a safety precaution, or just drawbacks of the signal system (that can possibly be improved in the future)?

That is true, the signal protection in the Turnback area is set up that a train at Science Park cannot leave until the train in front of it is, I believe, at the curve right before the North Station platforms. I forget what the signal bounds are headed toward Science Park but I know it's something similar. I think I have a diagram somewhere.

My understanding is it's by design (presumably as a safety protection for the North Station Turnback) and is not a drawback of the signal system. The slow speed of the turnback area has always driven me mad given how close by Science Park is to North Station.

As a D branch rider, by far the most common express I see is Reservoir to Longwood; especially pre-COVID, it would happen nearly every morning. I also see Newton Centre to Woodland sometimes, but not nearly as often.

Anecdotally, I hear Longwood to Reservoir the most on the radio. Happens all the time. That said, they sometimes come up with interesting combinations: one time I was on a train that got short-turned at Reservoir after being expressed from Fenway.

Will GLPTS bring more lenient operating rules (for example, allowing two trains to berth on the same platform again) or will it be so strict as to slow the whole thing down even more?

This I'm not sure about. I hope I'm out of the seat and in some desk job at the T by the time GLTPS is implemented, just as a general career goal (hoping to go back to school in support of that goal), but if I am in the seat long enough to still be driving when GLTPS is done, I will be interested to see how it works in practice.

And maybe this is just my bias because it's my home station, but I think (at least based on predicted ridership numbers) Gilman Square is the busiest station north of Lechmere (except maybe Medford/Tufts). It feels like it would make more sense to express from there instead of East Somerville.

A couple days ago I was on an absolutely packed train and I overhead our operator arguing with dispatch after they asked us to express from East Somerville to Medford/Tufts. The operator made the argument that unloading a crush loaded train would eliminate most of the time savings from expressing, which was apparently convincing, because we didn't express—and then the train really emptied out at Gilman.

That's good to know that another operator actually pushed back successfully on dispatch nonsense. I had a bad train this morning that kept braking randomly and jerking, kinda going into a "slow emergency" repeatedly. I called it in and their response was to...... send me express. The Cleveland Circle official was mystified that they didn't say anything else.

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As an unrelated aside: Does anyone know a good way to get in touch with a mod here? Trying to change my username, I'm transgender and requested a username change to reflect my chosen name but the mods still haven't approved it yet.

 

[#bancars]

I’ve also experienced this, but usually from Blandford to Harvard Ave

same, when I lived in Allston a few years ago it was very common for the B to express between Harvard and Blandford, much to the chagrin of the people waiting at Packards Corner to go inbound

 

[Riverside]

As an unrelated aside: Does anyone know a good way to get in touch with a mod here? Trying to change my username, I'm transgender and requested a username change to reflect my chosen name but the mods still haven't approved it yet.

I believe @vanshnookenraggen is a mod?

 

[Delvin4519]

The Ashmont Branch, which had a 2 week shutdown to fix all of the slowzones on the branch barely over 3 months ago, already has speed restrictions once again.

Looks like the shutdown didn't fix everything. If the tracks can't go more than 3 months without new speed restrictions, seems problematic to have speed restrictions this early and this soon after shutdowns lasting half a month?

 

[TheRatmeister]

The Ashmont Branch, which had a 2 week shutdown to fix all of the slowzones on the branch barely over 3 months ago, already has speed restrictions once again.
View attachment 47480
Looks like the shutdown didn't fix everything. If the tracks can't go more than 3 months without new speed restrictions, seems problematic to have speed restrictions this early and this soon after shutdowns lasting half a month?

These tracks see anywhere from 100-400 trains per day. Things break, it's to be expected. If systems for regular repair are working then it will be gone within a week, at worst two. This is exactly the type of work that night maintenance should be used for, so it shouldn't require any extra closures.

 

[Delvin4519]

These tracks see anywhere from 100-400 trains per day. Things break, it's to be expected. If systems for regular repair are working then it will be gone within a week, at worst two. This is exactly the type of work that night maintenance should be used for, so it shouldn't require any extra closures.

The Ashmont Branch is only seeing half as many trains each day compared to pre-COVID. Pre-COVID, the Red Line saw 223 roundtrips with 112 roundtrips on the Ashmont branch. Now, since March 2023, the Red Line is only managing to run 127 roundtrips on weekdays only, with at most 64 roundtrips weekdays on the Ashmont branch.

If the Red Line is only running half of the pre-COVID service, that means the tracks would only have a fraction of the beating it would've normally gotten pre-COVID. The Ashmont Branch is only seeing trains every 22 minutes off peak and every 18 minutes rush hour. It's not pre-COVID when it used to be every 13 minutes off peak and every 9 minutes peak. The tracks should last a bit more longer than just 3 months if only half the trains run?