General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

[Delvin4519]

Yep

First thing this reminds me of is the derailment on the Green Line on the first day it reopened from track repairs 6 months. Even on brand new tracks, the first day, the first month, or the first year.

MBTA Makes Further Progress on Expedited Critical Track Work on Green Line, Removes 11 Speed Restrictions | News | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.

www.mbta.com

Additionally, a thorough inspection confirms no relation exists between this Green Line work and the derailment that occurred on Saturday, March 9, near Kenmore Station. Prior to reopening the Green Line at 5 AM following the latest construction work, rigorous testing was conducted, including running multiple test trains. More than 70 Green Line trolleys had safely traveled through Kenmore Station prior to the incident. The post-derailment inspection corroborated the results from the post-diversion testing, confirming that the switches were functioning without any defects, that all track and switch replacement work was successfully accomplished,

The last major shutdown by Lechmere was for work correcting the narrow gauge tracks on the whole extension, and repairs to the Lechmere Viaduct trackage back in January 2024. So the tracks here at Lechmere were only 9 months old.

(Plus work on the Lechmere Viaduct in July 2024 for heat wave related track work, so maybe 3 months old?)

 

[Java King]

Well, that's not good.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

First thing this reminds me of is the derailment on the Green Line on the first day it reopened from track repairs 6 months. Even on brand new tracks, the first day, the first month, or the first year.

MBTA Makes Further Progress on Expedited Critical Track Work on Green Line, Removes 11 Speed Restrictions | News | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.

www.mbta.com

The last major shutdown by Lechmere was for work correcting the narrow gauge tracks on the whole extension, and repairs to the Lechmere Viaduct trackage back in January 2024. So the tracks here at Lechmere were only 9 months old.

It doesn't matter how new the tracks are. Type 8's gonna Type 8. In the 8-1/2 years it took to get the full Breda order accepted into service the T undertook a major track renewal works across the Green Line because of their maddening inability to stay on the tracks. It didn't matter. They still didn't stay on the new tracks.

 

[Stlin]

Looking at that picture though, would the center truck derailing have done that? The only way I can see how it could get into that position is if it split the switch with the front bogie going down the Medford tracks, and the center truck the Union - but from reporting that was meant to be a Union bound train. Are the switches centrally controlled on the GLX, or are they under the coast v power control paradigm?

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Looking at that picture though, would the center truck derailing have done that? The only way I can see how it could get into that position is if it split the switch with the front bogie going down the Medford tracks, and the center truck the Union - but from reporting that was meant to be a Union bound train. Are the switches centrally controlled on the GLX, or are they under the coast v power control paradigm?

Switches on GLX, Central Subway, and the D are all controlled by the signal system. Coast vs. power throwing was only on the signal-less streetcar branches (and has largely given way to manual-throw).

 

[TheRatmeister]

More photos from u/Girliepop5000 on Reddit. Certainly seems like that Type 8 is for parts now.

View attachment yp14refwt7sd1.jpg

 

[cubbe8]

Looks like there’s quite a bit of damage to the infrastructure. I would expect service to remain suspended for a while.

 

[TheRatmeister]

From the TIP meeting tonight: No immediate plans to move up the GL closure scheduled for December, but obviously it's a bit early to say for sure. Obviously in the photos there's clearly significant damage.

 

[Delvin4519]

From the TIP meeting tonight: No immediate plans to move up the GL closure scheduled for December, but obviously it's a bit early to say for sure. Obviously in the photos there's clearly significant damage.

Perhaps the Somerville Green Line will be offline for the next week or two weeks or months? Hard to tell, too early to say.

Knocking out the signals like the JFK derailment in 2019 resulted in 3-4 months of disruption before regular service resumed.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Perhaps the Somerville Green Line will be offline for the next week or two weeks? Hard to tell, too early to say.

Not likely that long. The signal head got flattened and its associated signal box knocked off its moorings, with some signal feeder cables ripped down. If the overhead power is OK then they should be able to get it back open sometime tomorrow. A missing signal is not necessarily fatal to service if they can hand-throw the switch as a backup. I'd just expect that there'll be a severe speed restriction in that whole area for the rest of the week, as it'll probably take several days to replace the signal and repair the associated signal plant.

Knocking out the signals like the JFK derailment in 2019 resulted in 3-4 months of disruption before regular service resumed.

Not remotely comparable. The signal boxes that crash took out were the master controls for the entire massive Columbia Jct. complex. Extremely critical infrastructure, and they were very old signal relays with no parts supply so they were @#$%ed on the short-term repairs and needed to replace the whole works with a very involved upgrade on zero notice. One brand new GLX signal governing one direction doesn't come anywhere near the complexity of that RL accident. And they still got Red moving again within a day or two, albeit with the long-duration speed restrictions because of the long-term ruined relay plant.

 

[TheRatmeister]

Knocking out the signals like the JFK derailment in 2019 resulted in 3-4 months of disruption before regular service resumed.

That was different though, I believe that train knocked out a whole signal box full of controls.

 

[stefal]

Found a red line rider who does not take the Orange Line or any of the buses; on zombie reddit.

View attachment 56372

Bold statement to make. It may have been better to write "As of right now, The Red Line has been the best it's ever been in years.", not "As of right now, The T has been the best it's ever been in years."

The Orange Line is still slower than the Summer 2022 monthlong shutdown, painfully slow on the outer rims of the line. Buses are still only 85% of pre-COVID levels. A bus rider transferring to the Orange Line is still suffering the worst service cuts and commute slowdowns yet, with very little alleviated or improved over the past 2 years.

Compared to when Eng started in April 2023; the Orange Line had 8 - 9 minutes of slow zone in May 2023. Today, Orange Line is a smidge below 8 minutes of slow zone, compared to 5 and a half minutes of slow time prior to the 2022 monthlong shutdown. Very little has improved on the Orange Line's speeds since May 2023.

Buses are less frequent today than in May 2023, many bus routes had service cut in July 2023, very little of those cuts have been reverted, with more trips removed from the Fall 2024 schedule than added.

View attachment 56373

While Red Line riders taking the subway from Braintree to Alewife have certainly seen their biggest gains in restored services and speeds, the T's improvements are not evenly distributed.

Bus riders are still suffering the worst of the Summer 2023 service cuts. The Orange Line is still running at its slowest speeds slower than Summer 2022, and almost as slow as May 2023. Orange Line riders need to wait until Election Day Eve. For bus riders, it's still a mystery when they will get their pre-COVID service levels back (BNRD phase 1 doesn't count, we're talking today's bus routes in today's neighborhoods, not the future redevelopment of Everett's 2nd St).

It is more than fair to say, for some MBTA riders, they have hardly felt anything improve meaningfully at all in the past 2 years, as it depends on which subway lines they take, which parts of those subway lines, and whether they ride the bus system at all or not.

Patience. End of October Orange Line will be fine, busses by end of the year. At this rate, the T has proven the past year (under current, new management) that their planned work is delivering results.

 

[RandomWalk]

I had to double check my photos to make sure that the Type 8 involved in the derailment wasn’t the one used on last weekend’s BSRA fan trip. That would have been a cruel irony.

 

[themissinglink]

7 people were injured in the derailment earlier today.

Green Line train derails near Cambridge MBTA station; 7 people injured

A Green Line train derailed Tuesday near an MBTA station in Cambridge, Massachusetts, injuring several people and forcing dozens of passengers to walk along the tracks to an emergency exit. The MBTA says at about 5 p.m., the wheels of the lead trolley of an eastbound Green Line train were...

www.nbcboston.com

Coholan initially said at his press conference that he anticipated regular service to resume Wednesday morning, saying that following re-railing, they would thoroughly inspect the tracks again and then the vehicle would go to one of their maintenance facilities for a thorough investigation. However, after the press conference ended, MBTA officials were informed that the National Transportation Safety Board is getting involved with the investigation, which would halt the MBTA's efforts to clear up the tracks.

The tracks will most likely be closed Wednesday, Coholan later said.

The root cause of Tuesday's derailment remains under investigation. The Department of Public Utilities and the Federal Transit Administration have been notified.

 

[Delvin4519]

7 people were injured in the derailment earlier today.

Green Line train derails near Cambridge MBTA station; 7 people injured

A Green Line train derailed Tuesday near an MBTA station in Cambridge, Massachusetts, injuring several people and forcing dozens of passengers to walk along the tracks to an emergency exit. The MBTA says at about 5 p.m., the wheels of the lead trolley of an eastbound Green Line train were...

www.nbcboston.com

GLX will almost certainity be shut down Wednesday, per the article.

Quoted from the article:

However, after the press conference ended, MBTA officials were informed that the National Transportation Safety Board is getting involved with the investigation, which would halt the MBTA's efforts to clear up the tracks.

The tracks will most likely be closed Wednesday, Coholan later said.

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Not likely that long. The signal head got flattened and its associated signal box knocked off its moorings, with some signal feeder cables ripped down. If the overhead power is OK then they should be able to get it back open sometime tomorrow. A missing signal is not necessarily fatal to service if they can hand-throw the switch as a backup. I'd just expect that there'll be a severe speed restriction in that whole area for the rest of the week, as it'll probably take several days to replace the signal and repair the associated signal plant.

Not remotely comparable. The signal boxes that crash took out were the master controls for the entire massive Columbia Jct. complex. Extremely critical infrastructure, and they were very old signal relays with no parts supply so they were @#$%ed on the short-term repairs and needed to replace the whole works with a very involved upgrade on zero notice. One brand new GLX signal governing one direction doesn't come anywhere near the complexity of that RL accident. And they still got Red moving again within a day or two, albeit with the long-duration speed restrictions because of the long-term ruined relay plant.

Even though the MBTA got the Red Line back up running within 2 days, Braintree Branch passengers had to transfer at JFK-UMASS to get between Downtown and Quincy and board Ashmont trains to continue downtown, they could not use the tracks directly at Columbia Junction where the derailment had occurred. The MBTA also had to embark on a series of evening and weekend shutdowns. It would take almost an entire week before Braintree trains could be through-routed to downtown once again.

The speed restrictions that hit after the signals got knocked out, killed headways across the entire Red Line. At the time, the Red Line ran 8 minutes between trains on the branches prior to the derailment. Branch headways drastically lengthened to every 13 - 20 minutes from every 8 minutes pre-derailment. The 8 minute branch frequency did not return until well into the fall. Even by late summer, trains still only ran every 11 - 14 minutes on the branches.

Poftak told transportation officials during an MBTA Fiscal Management and Control Board meeting that the T usually has 13 to 14 Red Line trains an hour during peak times, but that dropped to six per hour from June 12-14 with Braintree passengers having to transfer at JFK/UMass.

Baker told reporters that the MBTA was going to work through improvements more quickly with “more aggressive evening and weekend closures.

July 18: Trains are expected every six minutes between Alewife and JFK/UMass

Aug. 3: Normal service is targeted for October

The GLX had a series of speed restrictions implemented in Fall 2023 due to narrow gauge tracks.

This resulted in headways drastically lengthening from every 6 - 9 minutes to every 11 - 17 minutes.

Even if the T were to be able to run service with a signal out of order, such spred restrictions would still result in headways across the entire GLX branch being drastically cut back (and probably including the E branch as well), like what happened with GLX in Fall 2023 and with Red in Summer 2019. Normal service would only resume once the signals and infrastructure are back in working order.

Given now the NTSB is getting involved, the Green Line is probably going to be truncated back to North Station, maybe if they're lucky, they can run a dinky back and forth between East Somerville and Medford/Tufts, transferring to shuttle buses between East Somerville and North Station, avoiding the Red Bridge area altogether until the situation clears up. Plus, the T would also need direct access to the signal site on the junction to complete signal repairs.

 

[cubbe8]

x.com

x.com

Service to be suspended until start of service on Thursday.

 

[Delvin4519]

x.com

x.com

Service to be suspended until start of service on Thursday.

Seems like the East Somerville crossover turnback is too close to the derailment site, or it is powered by the Red Bridge substation, so they can't use it for a Medford/Tufts - East Somerville dinky.

Also means the full complete closure of the GLX will be much longer than the full shutdown of Red in the 2019 derailment. The 2019 Red Line derailment shuttered the Red Line from 6 a.m. to 5 p.m. on the Ashmont Branch up to Park. So it was an 11 hour shutdown.

This full complete GLX shutdown is slated for 36 hours from 4:45 p.m. Tuesday to 5 a.m. on Thursday, more than 3 times that of the full Red emergency shutdown from the 2019 derailment.

Seems pretty bad.

 

[RandomWalk]

The T management is probably eyeing the calendar to see exactly how many days until they can scrap the Type 8 albatrosses.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

The T management is probably eyeing the calendar to see exactly how many days until they can scrap the Type 8 albatrosses.

They're scrapping them one by one, it seems. The out-of-service ranks going into yesterday were 14 out of 94 cars (15%)...2 wrecks, 12 long-term out of service. And none of the long-term out-of-service cars were being repaired because there's no money allocated to buying the custom Breda parts. They're just sitting there collecting dust at Riverside while the shop is actively busy, busy, busy repairing a whole backlog of OOS Type 7's. With the Type 10 pilots only 2 years away, expect them to hold off on repairing the Bredas as long as they can skirt an outright numbers crisis.

 

[devnull]

The derailed train is still there:

(The Type 7 in the foreground wasn't there last night IIRC; maybe they were using that to shuttle personnel around?)