Other People's Rail: Amtrak, commuter rail, rapid transit news & views outside New England

[F-Line to Dudley]

It also sounds like they are being very optimistic about the ability to tunnel directly under existing century old tunnels and stations without causing damage, by using the ground freezing techniques. The reason the design went very deep along 125th Street is because shallow conditions for tunneling are really poor. Shallow tunneling sounds like a recipe for years of damage mitigation.

The Effective Transit Alliance suffers from a perfectionism complex in their technical recommendations. Sort of like how TransitMatters' Regional Rail traffic modeling relies on heavily suspect hyper-aggressive performance expectations with threadbare safeguards...but plied on a more grand scale across all of the ETA's rail advocacy. I guarantee they glossed over the engineering challenges of digging under old streets. Which sucks because there's copious opportunities for cost savings while delivering a better product than the MTA's insane elevator-city access strategy for Phase 2...but the more careless aspects of the ETA's work are ripe for having holes poked in it by skeptical institutionalists clinging to their Not Invented Here ways.

 

[ritchiew]

They're advocating cut-and-cover, not TBMs.

That's not really correct. They still recommend using TBM for the tunnel, but much more shallow. They do recommend cut-and-cover for the stations, which would be possible by running the TBM closer to the surface. That would be a heck of a lot cheaper than the current plan of mining deep stations.

 

[JeffDowntown]

That's not really correct. They still recommend using TBM for the tunnel, but much more shallow. They do recommend cut-and-cover for the stations, which would be possible by running the TBM closer to the surface. That would be a heck of a lot cheaper than the current plan of mining deep stations.

It "might" be a lot cheaper than mining deep stations -- depending on the success of underpinning century old infrastructure right over the proposed new stations.

Or it might lead to the closure of multiple other lines for several years of repairs. Big roll of the dice.

 

[stick n move]

Some crazy nimbyism going on outside chicago where a suburb on the way to ohare is trying to block a new train line between ohare and downtown which is going to just barely pass through their town and theyre doing everything possible so it essentially wouldnt affect the residents at all but of course theyre still furious. Insanity.

Proposed O’Hare Flyer train already drawing opposition from River Forest - Wednesday Journal

A proposed express train that would connect downtown Chicago with O’Hare International Airport and pass through River Forest is drawing scrutiny from village officials.

www.oakpark.com

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Some crazy nimbyism going on outside chicago where a suburb on the way to ohare is trying to block a new train line between ohare and downtown which is going to just barely pass through their town and theyre doing everything possible so it essentially wouldnt affect the residents at all but of course theyre still furious. Insanity.

Proposed O’Hare Flyer train already drawing opposition from River Forest - Wednesday Journal

A proposed express train that would connect downtown Chicago with O’Hare International Airport and pass through River Forest is drawing scrutiny from village officials.

www.oakpark.com

CAVEAT: The outfit that's pitching this smells a whole lot pie-in-the-sky and just a little bit scammy.

 

[ritchiew]

CAVEAT: The outfit that's pitching this smells a whole lot pie-in-the-sky and just a little bit scammy.

I don't doubt they're being pie-in-the-sky, but what part of this looks scammy? I don't know anything about the people involved.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

I don't doubt they're being pie-in-the-sky, but what part of this looks scammy? I don't know anything about the people involved.

They're hyping, hyping, hyping that they'll do 15-minute travel times over 20 miles, which requires 80 MPH sustained speeds through four different owners of heavily congested freight railroads, scores of grade crossings, and multiple junctions and sharp-turning wye legs. It's not possible by laws of physics, nevermind if they actually spent the ton of money and herded the cats of the various rail line owners to get each segment up to top passenger operating condition. But that's their core business proposal. It's a little more disingenuous than simply being "pie-in-the-sky".

 

[ritchiew]

They're hyping, hyping, hyping that they'll do 15-minute travel times over 20 miles, which requires 80 MPH sustained speeds through four different owners of heavily congested freight railroads, scores of grade crossings, and multiple junctions and sharp-turning wye legs. It's not possible by laws of physics, nevermind if they actually spent the ton of money and herded the cats of the various rail line owners to get each segment up to top passenger operating condition. But that's their core business proposal. It's a little more disingenuous than simply being "pie-in-the-sky".

I don't think their plan is as outrageous as you're making it out to be. This presentation has the most details I've seen so far, and they seem to address a lot of your criticisms.

They say they'll have a dedicated line the whole way from O'Hare to their new downtown station. They're using other companies' right of ways, but they'll have their own dedicated track they control. (How exactly they do that changes segment to segment). They're building flyovers at junctions so they really don't have to interact with anyone else. They'll do their own dispatching on essentially a closed system. No interaction with freight whatsoever. And I don't see scores of grade crossings. Long continuous sections are fully grade separated, and they'll remove some of the remaining grade crossings. There's one long section where trains will run 110mph.

15-minute travel times sounds low, but not so out of whack that it looks like a scam.

(I seriously doubt their business model works. But that's a whole other matter.)

 

[themissinglink]

Governor Hochul Announces MTA Advances Final Construction Contract of Second Avenue Subway Phase 2

Governor Hochul announced that the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) is advancing the fourth and final construction contract for Phase 2 of the Second Avenue Subway, marking a major milestone toward completing the extension of Q service to 125 St in East Harlem.

www.governor.ny.gov

Governor Hochul today announced that the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) is advancing the fourth and final construction contract for Phase 2 of the Second Avenue Subway, marking a major milestone toward completing the extension of Q service to 125 St in East Harlem. Following this Request for Qualifications (RFQ), the MTA plans to issue a Request for Proposals to qualified contractors by the end of the year and anticipates selecting a contractor in mid-2027. Contract Four is the largest contract of the Second Avenue Subway Phase 2 project and includes the construction of station infrastructure, tracks, and signals for the subway expansion. Work on Contract Four will begin in 2027.

“New Yorkers have been waiting for the Second Avenue Subway for nearly a century and now, with major work underway, we are moving full speed ahead with the final contract to fully deliver this transformative new transit connection to East Harlem,” Governor Hochul said. “We fought hard to keep this project moving forward earlier this year and finally break ground on new tunnels this summer. Once this contract is completed, three beautiful and accessible new subway stations will welcome East Harlem to the subway line they have long been promised.”

With the first three contracts progressing concurrently, the project budgeted at $6.968 billion is expected to be fully completed by the fall of 2032. This project is made possible by congestion relief revenue and $3.4 billion in federal funding. Upon completion of Phase 2, Q service will run north from 96 St to 125 St and Lexington Ave, an extension of approximately 1.5 miles with three new stations at 106 St, 116 St and 125 St.