🔹 What's Happening With Project X?

Rover said:
NIMBY's have fought 3 major battles during this development cycle and lost two of them already, Winthrop Square and the Whiskey Priest development. This garage is their last stand.
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Unfortunately, I don't think truly disingenuous NIMBYs are going away if they lose another battle. Remember that some people are paid salaries to simply oppose things.
 
Mike said:
I badly miss BeeLine's updates. Hopefully he's ok and just on vacation.
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I hope BeeLine is OK and I hope he knows how much he is so very appreciated. I think I can speak for many on this forum to call him an consummate all-star who does so much to prevent this thing from going completely off the rails.
 
nimby's not dead yet....

nimby major battles lost;
1. 1 Dalton
2. Garden Garage
3. Winthrop Square project returns and 691' twin peaked tower approved.
4. Harbor Garage resurrected & possibly moving forward
5. Dense construction of the Seaport

nimby minor battles lost;
1. Whisky Priest a go go....
2. modest height all legal at 1 Congress
3. The Huntington approved flying a bit under the radar.
4. fairly large project approved at Tremont Crossing

nimby major victories;
1. Copley Tower nimby delays eventually killed it
2. Columbus Ctr nimby's (masterfully) ran out the clock
3. 1 Bromfield St effectively killed.
4. 45 Worthington St killed
5. 2 Charlesgate W. apparently killed by John Henry

nimby minor victories;
1. 533 Washington Street tower nixed
2. height slashed at TD Garden/ no skyscraper precedent....
3. height slashed at 1 Congress
4. height slashed at parcel 15.
5. height slashed at Dudley Square
6. 1 Joslin Pl cancelled/ replaced by 90' shorter lab bldg
7. Fenway Ctr tower still unbuilt.
8. 1 Charlestown major housing project delayed.....
9. 90' of height slashed off two towers at Tremont Crossing
10. 171 Tremont slashed, slashed again & finally acquired by Emerson.
 
For those who don't appreciate simple economics.

Cost of burying the existing HT garage: $200 million (was $175 million 5+ years ago, but that was then.)

Annual payment of principal and interest on a financing loan of $200 million: $15,600,000 (calculated at a fixed 4.85 percent interest rate, for a 20 year period).

Daily parking revenue needed simply to pay the principal and interest on the loan $42,700

^^^This for a garage where daily use is highly seasonal.
 
stellarfun said:
For those who don't appreciate simple economics.

Cost of burying the existing HT garage: $200 million (was $175 million 5+ years ago, but that was then.)

Annual payment of principal and interest on a financing loan of $200 million: $15,600,000 (calculated at a fixed 4.85 percent interest rate, for a 20 year period).

Daily parking revenue needed simply to pay the principal and interest on the loan $42,700

^^^This for a garage where daily use is highly seasonal.
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You forgot about the depreciation exp the investors have been receiving on this asset for the last 10 years.

Just curious what do you prefer the developer to do?
#1 To keep the garage
#2 To build on top of the garage
#3 Bury the garage

What do you think would be best for the area for the overall public? I’m sure the developer could just build on top of the garage and make a profit.
 
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stellarfun said:
For those who don't appreciate simple economics.

Cost of burying the existing HT garage: $200 million (was $175 million 5+ years ago, but that was then.)

Annual payment of principal and interest on a financing loan of $200 million: $15,600,000 (calculated at a fixed 4.85 percent interest rate, for a 20 year period).

Daily parking revenue needed simply to pay the principal and interest on the loan $42,700

^^^This for a garage where daily use is highly seasonal.
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A couple of points:

1) Not sure if you're referring to the developer or not, but burying the garage is directly related to building 600 feet on top of it, so the only revenue stream wouldn't be parking revenue, right? That's an apples to oranges comparison.

2) If your point is that some NIMBY group or billionaire can guy the garage and bury it thus opening up the view to the harbor while keeping the parking, I would assume Amos or the CLF loons or whoever ponied up would just knock down the structure and call it a day after working out whatever they needed to with Harbor Towers easements. If money is no object you can get a lot done.
 
Coyote137 said:
Unfortunately, I don't think truly disingenuous NIMBYs are going away if they lose another battle. Remember that some people are paid salaries to simply oppose things.
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I hear ya. Gotta remain vigilant and all that. However, if I'm funding these idiots and they keep losing battles, I might decide to shift my money to a winning team instead. Not sure who's paying for Shirley Kressel's upkeep for example, but she hasn't exactly been hitting it out of the park the last few years. In fact her batting average is so low she'd have trouble cracking the bottom of the Sox lineup, and those guys are all hitting like .200! :D
 
^ I believe Shirley's at least semi-retired. A highly interesting person in the few conversations we've shared over the years. She was a huge help in saving the Arlington Building. And her views are a lot more nuanced than one might think based on press coverage.

(No idea why [nostalgia trip???], but I revisited this thread recently. A lot of worthy dialog in here, along with the initial cultivation of our activist roots.)
 
Why doesn’t the Barr foundation/CLF just find a way to buy the garage off the developer and propose an underground parking garage along with a park on top, then connected to the future blueway park? Not sure who will fund the blueway park maybe CLF can find way to support that also.

What is the actual value to the investors at this point to sell the garage?

Amos is a billionaire- he can use his non-profit money to buy the garage.
 
TheRifleman said:
Why doesn’t the Barr foundation/CLF just find a way to buy the garage off the developer and propose an underground parking garage along with a park on top, then connected to the future blueway park? Not sure who will fund the blueway park maybe CLF can find way to support that also.

What is the actual value to the investors at this point to sell the garage?

Amos is a billionaire- he can use his non-profit money to buy the garage.
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Exactly what I was getting at. If the dude's a billionaire, pay Don market rate for the garage and then he can do whatever he likes. Frankly he doesn't even have to replace the parking. He can level it and make it into a park if he likes. Would only have to work something out with HT regarding their easements and I'm sure a few more bucks would take care of that.

Funny how altruistic community activists never want to put their own money behind the cause. :rolleyes:

Beton Brut said:
^ I believe Shirley's at least semi-retired. A highly interesting person in the few conversations we've shared over the years. She was a huge help in saving the Arlington Building. And her views are a lot more nuanced than one might think based on press coverage.
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I'm thrilled that she's an interesting loon, but at the end of the day she's still a loon. :D
 
Help me understand why a non-profit foundation would invest ~$350M (purchase price + construction & insurance costs [back-of-the-napkin estimate]) in an underground parking garage that will flood regularly?

And Shirley's not a loon. She's an educated, progressive-minded person who has a different vision of how Boston should evolve. I tend to learn best from folks I disagree with; you should give it a bash sometime.
 
The only problem that I have with Amos buying the garage and making it a park is that the taxpayers just spent 19billion on the big dig to create the greenway park. Now the garage which pays city taxes will decrease and harbor towers residents not only have a private pool blocking access from the greenway to the waterfront. Now they have another huge Park next door to them with rapid transit service.

In the end whoever buys it has the dream and the vision to do with what they want.

This logic should have been applied to seaport.
 
Beton Brut said:
Help me understand why a non-profit foundation would invest ~$350M (purchase price + construction & insurance costs [back-of-the-napkin estimate]) in an underground parking garage that will flood regularly?

.
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Then why is the non-profit trying to convince the public that the garage is a better option than the developer proposal?

The economics do not make sense for the developer to build a 200ft building.
What is best for the public?
The garage for the next 100 years or the developers proposal.

The nonprofit group is saying the garage. That is not the overall best interest for the public.
So these types of claims are lunacy.
Either buy the garage or shut up.
 
Beton Brut said:
Help me understand why a non-profit foundation would invest ~$350M (purchase price + construction & insurance costs [back-of-the-napkin estimate]) in an underground parking garage that will flood regularly?

And Shirley's not a loon. She's an educated, progressive-minded person who has a different vision of how Boston should evolve. I tend to learn best from folks I disagree with; you should give it a bash sometime.
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Who says they have to reconstruct the garage? IIRC maybe stellar said the garage is now valued at 200M. Will cost more to purchase maybe since the owner makes a profit every year on it. But still, buy him out for $250M and knock down the garage for a park. Amos is worth billions and I'm sure he can fundraise from his wealthy friends as well. What's the problem?

Shirley is a grade "A" conspiracy theorist loon who's cost the city millions of needed tax revenue with idiotic opposition and delaying tactics. Money that could have gone to schools, transit, and public works projects.
 
Shirley is highly intelligent–bordering on genius and articulate..... she also happens to be a self-serving paranoid, urban conspiracy theorist.... loony tunes.
 
The last cost estimate I found for demolishing the garage and rebuilding it underground is from Chiofaro himself, and that was four years ago, He said $180 million.
http://www.bostonplans.org/getattachment/da676067-e92e-41cc-b699-617067342095

I do not know whether that includes the cost of relocating the utility and mechanical infrastructure for the Harbor Towers, which will not be cheap.

So I think $200 million in the current day is a good number.

I have said in the past that I suspect that the garage can't be done away with entirely. The garage was built by the BRA because the BRA was developing a very large, BRA-owned, surface parking lot on which it planned to build three residential towers, though only two were actually built. So Chiofaro, or anyone else, may not simply be able to sweep it away.

Further complicating the matter of the garage is that it serves nearby, maritime-related uses, e.g., the Aquarium, excursion boats, ferries, etc. My understanding of Chapter 91 is that without the garage, Chiofaro gets no relief from height restrictions imposed by Chapter 91; to wit, 55 feet near the harbor, and about 155 feet near the Greenway.

The Commonwealth has determined that awnings, or other protrusions from the side of any building he would build count against the 'open-to-the-sky' provision of Chapter 91's open space requirement. And there is an absolute prohibition of any new shadows on Long Wharf east of the Marriott, so that constrains maximum height.

In essence, his above-ground building must be squeezed into a footprint no larger than 28,500 square feet, have a total building area that does not exceed 900,000 gross sq ft., and is constrained in height by a provision that it must not cast shadows on Long Wharf (about 600 feet).

Thus, any building will be set along the Greenway, that part of the current garage nearest the harbor will be 28,500 sq ft of open space, and the maximum height, if he seeks to try for 600 feet will be at the southwest corner of the site. There will be no grander, expanded 'Open to the Sea' view of the harbor from the Greenway then there is now with the existing garage.

If my memory is correct, they dug up the Atlantic Ave sidewalk next to the garage for the Big Dig, and Google maps, which many not be accurate, shows a northbound lane of the O'Neill tunnel passing under the SW corner of the garage. If this is so, his excavation for a new garage and any building that goes on top will need to shift east by x feet. This shift will lower the maximum height allowed for a new building because it will be closer to Long Wharf.
 
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