115 Federal St. (Winthrop Square)

[Patrick]

I've asked this before and do not recall getting an answer--not a problem--but I was wondering if anyone has heard anything since...so here is my question again...

has there been any other interest in building a 1,000 footer (as I recall there was some press about city hall encouraging other such proposals a while back) or does it seem like developers will take the 'wait and see' attitude to watch 115 winthrop?

 

[statler]

I've asked this before and do not recall getting an answer--not a problem--but I was wondering if anyone has heard anything since...so here is my question again...

has there been any other interest in building a 1,000 footer (as I recall there was some press about city hall encouraging other such proposals a while back) or does it seem like developers will take the 'wait and see' attitude to watch 115 winthrop?

Sadly, there was barely any interest in building this 1,000fter and the lot was gift wrapped and handed over a silver platter (no fussing and fighting with the city about zoning, etc) So, I would say it is unlikely we will see any more proposals anytime soon. But never say never, I guess.

 

[tmac9wr]

^^ You can't necessarily say that there was only 1 proposal because no one else was interested...a big reason for that is the lot is small and irregular (at least that's what was said about it before), and Belkin owns the lot right next to it so he's basically got 2 times the space to build on.

 

[Lrfox]

That's true... and as a result of his owning the neighboring lot any other prospective developers knew that since Belken owned that lot, he would be willing to Bid more for this, so instead of bidding to lose, they didn't bid at all.

So it's while it may be safe to say that there isn't a TON of interest, you can't really say there is "barely any in this one."

 

[Patrick]

That's true... and as a result of his owning the neighboring lot any other prospective developers knew that since Belken owned that lot, he would be willing to Bid more for this, so instead of bidding to lose, they didn't bid at all.

So it's while it may be safe to say that there isn't a TON of interest, you can't really say there is "barely any in this one."

Is it possible the city favored Belkin as the developer (for whatever reason) and that is the reason why 115 winthrop was chosen as the site for this tower, as opposed to somewhere else? they had to have anticipated this...right?

 

[Lrfox]

I had never really thought of it that way. it could be the case. While i can't speak for the city, i would assume that they didn't plan for Belkin all along, and instead planned for competition. In terms of a financial aspect, the more bidders there are, the more the price of the land goes up. If there is just one Bidder (Belkin, in this instance), then the price is set by the only bidder. While Belkin stood to gain the most due to his ownership of the neighboring lot, i don't think the city intended for him to be the only bidder.

However, when you look at all the evidence, it would seem as if there's no way the city didn't have any knowledge that he may have been one of the primary bidders.

 

[statler]

Is it possible the city favored Belkin as the developer (for whatever reason) and that is the reason why 115 winthrop was chosen as the site for this tower, as opposed to somewhere else? they had to have anticipated this...right?

To understand why 115 Winthrop Sq was chosen for this project you need to be familiar with the site. It is a city owned lot that sits in the heart of the financial district. There is shitty, run down garage that operates on the lot. It's an eye sore that nobody is going to miss. Building on this spot is a win/win for the city. They lose some visual blight and gain a new city icon (plus all the revenue it will generate). It is about a perfect a spot for a tower as you can get. Satan himself could own the adjacent property and it still would have gone out to bid. That's not to say Menino didn't know Belkin would have been a front runner, but I doubt it influenced his decision to build there.

 

[kz1000ps]

There is shitty, run down garage that operates on the lot.

You can say that again. I've never been in a parking garage that was in such an advanced state of decay as this one was. The picture doesn't do its horrible condition justice, but here it is anyway

 

[bowesst]

statler, I disagree...this site is a perfect spot for a park, not a tower. If we built a tower on this site the only other parks in the area would be Post Office Sq. and the Greenway.

 

[kz1000ps]

That raises an interesting question -- has anyone attempted to quantify exactly what percentage of land should be devoted to open park space in a core financial district? My gut tells me that with Post Office Square two very short blocks away that we really don't need another one nearly the same size in that vicinity. But then again downtown really has no green other than POS, so perhaps it'd be needed. I guess you won't know til you try?

 

[justin]

statler, I disagree...this site is a perfect spot for a park, not a tower. If we built a tower on this site the only other parks in the area would be Post Office Sq. and the Greenway.

Sounds like a few too many to me.

justin

 

[bowesst]

statler, I disagree...this site is a perfect spot for a park, not a tower. If we built a tower on this site the only other parks in the area would be Post Office Sq. and the Greenway.

Sounds like a few too many to me.

justin

That was my point. I was being sarcastic.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Piano vs. Rudolph Fight Called Off

Link

Piano vs. Rudolph Fight Called Off
CHRIS MOTTALINI / COURTESY PAUL RUDOLPH FOUNDATION; Courtesy BRA

It was a bad week for Boston businessman-cum-developer Steve Belkin. On March 13, the Boston Landmarks Commission (BLC) issued a 90-day stay against the demolition of Paul Rudolph?s 1960 Blue Cross/Blue Shield Building. Belkin owns the building and had planned to pull it down to make room for a tower in the city?s financial district designed by Renzo Piano Building Workshop (RPBW), which, at 80 stories, would have become the city?s tallest. Four days later, Piano quit the project in a battle for creative control of the design.

Piano was not driven away by the preservation of 133 Federal Street, Rudolph?s boxy 13-story concrete building, but by the urge to preserve his own work. "There have been requests to change,? an anonymous executive at RPBW told The Boston Globe. ?Some modifications were asked for. We felt they weren't appropriate." RPBW declined requests from AN for comment.

?We hired the Renzo Piano Building Workshop to undertake a conceptual design for our proposed tower,? Belkin said in a statement, but a source from the Boston architectural community suggested that this was not the original arrangement. Executive architects CBT are now in charge of the design. No word yet as to whether the project will continue to carry the Piano name or how much his designs could still change. Mayor Thomas Menino, who vigorously supports the project, referred to the new plans as ?Renzo Piano?inspired.?

And Belkin still has the BLC to contend with. Though the commission has limited authority over buildings outside historic districts or not designated as individual landmarks, it reviews all buildings in downtown Boston slated for demolition. If the BLC deems a building of historical, cultural, recreational, or, in this case, architectural significance, it can issue a demolition delay, which protects it for 90 days.

During this time, preservationists who supported the delay are encouraged to discuss alternate plans with the developer and the city. These alternative plans are nonbinding, and the developer is free to proceed how it sees fit once the demolition delay expires. ?It is certainly our intent to sit down and listen,? a spokesperson for Belkin said. ?But this all happened a week ago, so nothing has happened yet.?

For preservationists and Rudolph fans, the fact that Belkin wants to demolish an early work by one of modernism?s most controversial and influential practitioners is bad enough. But they are further angered because the tower would not rise directly off the Rudolph footprint but instead from that of an adjacent city-owned parking garage. A public plaza would occupy the space where 133 Federal Street now stands.

Nonetheless, the city still supports plans to demolish Rudolph?s work. ?It behaves like a freestanding structure even with the garage on two sides,? said Kairos Shen, director of planning for the Boston Redevelopment Authority, which is overseeing the project for the city. ?You couldn?t really integrate it with another building.?

Sarah Kelly, director of the Boston Preservation Alliance, disagrees. ?We?d like to see a range of alternatives,? she said. ?No one is opposed to development, but the project should not be just new or old. I?m always optimistic that we will be able to find a win-win situation.?

One of the most popular alternatives was put forth by Tim Rohan, a professor at the University of Massachusetts Amherst who is writing a book about the Blue Cross/Blue Shield Building. The proposal draws on Rudolph?s own 1987 studies for a seven-story addition to the building.

But Rohan is uncertain such a plan would be successful without the involvement of RPBW. ?In a way, I would rather have seen Renzo Piano involved,? he said. ?He is a great architect, and I thought it was a great opportunity for him to work with an existing structure or a fragment of it, because he had been so successful with that in the past, like at the Morgan Library.?

Matt Chaban

I had no idea he had quit.

 

[IMAngry]

I've got an idea

Here's an idea:

Take a bunch of pictures of the Blue Cross building, put them in a photo album so everyone who cares can take a look, then tear the building down.

Problem solved, everyone's happy.

 

[kz1000ps]

Re: Piano vs. Rudolph Fight Called Off

But they are further angered because the tower would not rise directly off the Rudolph footprint but instead from that of an adjacent city-owned parking garage. A public plaza would occupy the space where 133 Federal Street now stands.

As far as I know plans haven't changed since I snuck out info back in November.. here's the diagram I did back then, which is accurate down to a scale of 1 pixel equals 1 foot:

Now somebody please look at this map and tell me that 115 Winthrop will not intrude on the footprint of Rudolph's building

Conclusion: whoever it is I quoted, they are fucking stupid.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

There are a couple quotes in that article that made me stop and think "What the fuck is that person smoking?"

 

[kz1000ps]

City set to raise prices at Winthrop Square garage

By Bruce Mohl, Globe Staff | April 6, 2007

Time is running out on the best garage parking deal in Boston.
City officials yesterday said they plan to raise the parking rates at the Winthrop Square garage when they take over its management on June 30, the day the current operator's lease expires.

The one bright spot: Rates will rise, but probably not to market levels for downtown garages, which currently run $10 to $20 an hour and $30 to $33 for a full day. The full-day rate at many downtown garages starts after as little as 80 minutes.

Winthrop Square, currently charges $4.15 for two hours, $1.60 for the third hour, and 85 cents for each additional hour.

"Rates will be reasonable and sensitive to the public that uses that garage," said Susan Elsbree, a spokeswoman for the Boston Redevelopment Authority. She said the decision on rates will be made in the next several weeks.

The parking garage property is where Mayor Thomas M. Menino wants to see Boston's tallest building built. The BRA has tentatively designated businessman Steve Belkin's Trans National Properties as developer. Belkin has proposed a 1,000-foot tower.

In the meantime, Elsbree said, the BRA intends to acquire the Winthrop Square property from the city and hire a garage operator to manage it. She said the city will retain all parking revenue from the garage until the site's developer pays for the property and begins construction.

The Boston Finance Commission, a watchdog group, has been prodding the city to increase revenue from the garage. The city failed to do that with another parking site it unloaded, Haywood Place on Washington Street. Under terms of the city's deal, Haywood Place can keep all parking revenue since July 1, 2005. Yet the site has not been developed.

Jeff Conley, executive director of the commission, estimated the current operator at Winthrop Square takes in $2.5 million a year while paying the city only $76,875.

Conley said higher rates could boost revenue to as much as $3 million a year.

Bruce Mohl can be reached at mohl@globe.com.
? Copyright 2007 Globe Newspaper Company.

 

[Scott]

^ That's expensive compared to the old Post Office Square Garage which used to charge 25 cents/ hour. As a teen I used to park my s*** box car there on sundays and explore the city by foot.

Ah, them was the days...

btw- I still think that an open plaza is not appropriate for that area of the city and would point to the unused plaza around 133 Federal as evidence.

 

[theculprit]

so is winthrop square officially a no-go since Piano quit?

 

[jass]

so is winthrop square officially a no-go since Piano quit?

The design will change, but the big box will remain