45 Worthington Street | 6 (née 35) stories, 141 (née 385) units | Mission Hill

The NIMBY opposition for this project does make sense.

There are examples of irrational NIMBYS, for example West End opposition to everything or the Harbor tower opposition to the proposed taring down of the garage.

This proposal would put a tall tower and 275 car parking lot on a small and quiet one way street. If I owned a place on that street I would be furious.

If I was the developer I would only allow garage access to St Alphonsus street provide a set back so the tower isin't right up against the street. If the developer proposed this from the start the NIMBY pressure would not be as strong.
 
So sad. Epic fail. Mission Hill residents are as bad as the North End Flat Earther's.

This is an urban area for Christ's sakes.

That parcel is perfect for the original proposal.
 
So sad. Epic fail. Mission Hill residents are as bad as the North End Flat Earther's.

This is an urban area for Christ's sakes.

That parcel is perfect for the original proposal.

No it's not, and as usual, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
 
So sad. Epic fail. Mission Hill residents are as bad as the North End Flat Earther's.

This is an urban area for Christ's sakes.

That parcel is perfect for the original proposal.

Right on schedule. How predictable.
 
There are numerous towers nearby on Huntingdon and Tremont - this one would be much better, preserving streetwall and urban form -
 
There are numerous towers nearby on Huntingdon and Tremont - this one would be much better, preserving streetwall and urban form -

All true. See the extensive discussion up thread for the very reasonable opposition to this project as currently designed.
 
All true. See the extensive discussion up thread for the very reasonable opposition to this project as currently designed.

There was at least a tepid agreement that reorienting the tower portion away from Worthington would have mitigated most of the complained about issues. The height itself was less a problem than the fact that it loomed over Worthington and treated it too much like the building's own personal driveway.

Height in that general area is clearly far from unprecedented. I feel like the vitriol towards this was over the top hysteria.

Capture by David Z, on Flickr
 
“After receiving input from the community, the new concept has been significantly scaled down and redesigned from the previous proposal, to respond "

Significantly scaled down doesn't sound promising.
 
I would love to see this go forward. I agreed with many of the criticisms of this tower, chiefly with reorienting the bulk of the tower away from Worthington Street. That said, there absolutely is a precedent for tall buildings in this area, and a tall building should be built.
 
A 35-storey building is out of scale w/ the low-rise buildings on that side of Tremont St, regardless of what else is there, or was there (55 years ago ..).

Having said that, is this a new fad? There's this one, and the proposal for the "high-rise" in Dudley Square, and even the 20+ storey building (approved) in Bay Village. All "non-traditional" areas for these.
 
A 35-storey building is out of scale w/ the low-rise buildings on that side of Tremont St, regardless of what else is there, or was there (55 years ago ..).

So. ....(understood; stated in allegory).

...is this a new fad? There's this one, and the proposal for the "high-rise" in Dudley Square, and even the 20+ storey building (approved) in Bay Village. All "non-traditional" areas for these.

i'll play heretic: These might be considered provocative transactions, but are they not in a major US city starved for places to stick moderate increases in density? There are complex economic factors that are pushing it. And there are aggressive neighborhood groups of every disposition, personality, income and color generally opposed to development of every type.

Mission Hill residents are going to have to adjust to reality; cities grow. Sometimes nearly dramatically. Is there a dire need for the density contained in the original proposal to reach market the day after tomorrow? Possibly not. But, suppose they were to build this–but not many other such highrises in MH for a long time (it's happened before). Would people be saying in 20 or 30 years, 'My God, they sure went way too aggressive on height on that one. That thing really destroyed the neighborhood.'
???
No, i don't believe they would. There are renders for 45 Worthington that show the tower from vantage points along Huntington that suggest it would have taken it's place in the neighborhood without much fanfare.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8599/15807397280_c8780fe22d_b.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8645/15994663005_758a7edbfe_b.jpg

Instead, this looks like a take-down with help from sight unseen–but what is the goal? i don't see it being out of fear they will try to build 3 more. This stinks of something else. The BPDA has lost another battle in pushing for increased height and scale in Mission Hill. The growing city envisioned by the BPDA is getting hard push-back in other neighborhoods as well. i'm surprised the Bldg Dept didn't advise E.R. to hold their ground until Walsh II.

i enjoy public meetings because the people who oppose projects are often very nice and reasonable when you sit and talk with them. The impact advisory staffers are the ones who come off as aggressive and extreme imo.

For better or worse, we're heading toward a population edging closer to where we were in 1960 (or maybe 1950). But this is a far better, far more livable, and just City than in 1950.

i hope we can (occasionally) prioritize projects that impact the City's life blood over licentious gifts that benefit only a few and knock it out of the park. In this Boston, there are less tenements, less slums and some people live higher above the street.

Despite that something will go up fairly dense, with the scaling back of Tremont Crossing and 45 Worthington, we've lost a very high number of affordable housing units. If we keep doing this, our efforts to make Boston a more-affordable city will continue to be greatly compromised. I believe it matters above other considerations that are less dire.
 
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They seem to have no problem building towers on podiums lately. Why not throw some townhouses on worthington street at the base with the tower set back a bit.


In this picture it appears that they are trying




But then this one shows what the problem is here




Other cities can do it here is a building in Vancouver. Obviously here the podium would be shorter and not as wide.

800px-Vancouver_podium_building_1.JPG


One Rincon in San Fran

one-rincon-hill-stock-01-1.jpg



A 3-5 story brick podium, with the tower set back from the street would be nice. They have plenty of room to work with here.
 
There was at least a tepid agreement that reorienting the tower portion away from Worthington would have mitigated most of the complained about issues. The height itself was less a problem than the fact that it loomed over Worthington and treated it too much like the building's own personal driveway.

Height in that general area is clearly far from unprecedented. I feel like the vitriol towards this was over the top hysteria.

Capture by David Z, on Flickr

No, it's not, and nobody who knows the area was opposed to height in the area per se. It's not just the driveway aspect (which was appallingly rude on the part of the developers - they deserve to fail just for that) but the fact of having the main entrance on worthington street just doesn't work. Just doesn't. It's a historic low rise street and the fact that the next street over hot brutalized by urban renewal in no way changes the context of worthington as a street that shouldn't have height on it. If they can find a way to build on the same lot but have all entrances on st alphonsus, im all for this. Leave worthington st alone.
 
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Odura, this is not the right project to criticize. It really was a bad proposal. You can't build a 35 story tower on a skinny historic street filled with low rises. The NIMBY's weren't at all irrational. While I do agree that some proposals are given unreasonable roadblocks to development this is not one of them.

And you're complaining about North End residents? Do you propose they tare down some of the low rises to build tall towers? That worked out well, look at the West End today.
 
A valid point of view. i'm holding to the superficial advantages and ignoring the negatives. Minimal negative shadow impacts during the warm months (winter is kinda dark anyway), a crown for this end of Boston, developing a minimal # of parcels, and the generous affordable housing units.

Overall, i think Boston would have benefited significantly.

Moot in any case.
 
The biggest abomination of the entire urban renewal project around here was the discontinuation of Smith Street. I'd like to see that roadway restored, with or without tearing down the middle of the three towers. The latter would be better, because it would allow a more full reconfiguration of the massive surface parking spaces around here for more full development… But all facing Saint Alphonsus, thus preserving the historic triangle streets.

Anyone who thinks a single street doesn't make a difference should consider putting a 40 story building on Newbury versus on Boylston.
 
^ Lol smith st is the perfect example of Boston in a nutshell. One thing that pisses me off is this exact same scenario but for every street that goes side to side across Boston. Every street goes either towards or away from downtown besides mass ave and like 2 others. The other streets that actually do go east west (in reality north south) all get cut off at one point or another whether due to rt 9, the emerald necklace, 28, the 95 gash that never was, orange line....etc. Its fuckin annoying.

This definitely is a HUGE factor in why traffic is so fucked up here because you have to drive downtown to link up to a road to get out of the city. To get to Framingham from my apartment I have to get on 93 and literally drive towards south station and finally link up with the pike then I can go away from the city. Yea I could make a HUGE loop south on 93 and go the long way but thats retarded and adds like an hour for no reason. Somehow the city needs to link up the roads that cross the city. Many of them are already there and they have both sides they just get cut off in the middle. There should be a study on the best way to link these streets back together because I guarintee it would significantly cut down on traffic downtown and in the core because everyone has to unnecessarily pile up downtown to be able to get to where they're going.
 
^ Lol smith st is the perfect example of Boston in a nutshell. One thing that pisses me off is this exact same scenario but for every street that goes side to side across Boston. Every street goes either towards or away from downtown besides mass ave and like 2 others. The other streets that actually do go east west (in reality north south) all get cut off at one point or another whether due to rt 9, the emerald necklace, 28, the 95 gash that never was, orange line....etc. Its fuckin annoying.

This definitely is a HUGE factor in why traffic is so fucked up here because you have to drive downtown to link up to a road to get out of the city. To get to Framingham from my apartment I have to get on 93 and literally drive towards south station and finally link up with the pike then I can go away from the city. Yea I could make a HUGE loop south on 93 and go the long way but thats retarded and adds like an hour for no reason. Somehow the city needs to link up the roads that cross the city. Many of them are already there and they have both sides they just get cut off in the middle. There should be a study on the best way to link these streets back together because I guarintee it would significantly cut down on traffic downtown and in the core because everyone has to unnecessarily pile up downtown to be able to get to where they're going.

While it may be inconvenient to motorists, many of these street grid disconnects are intentional to prevent cut through traffic and leave cars on the main roads. Reducing "traffic" by allowing drivers to speed down residential streets wouldn't be an improvement. While your Framingham highway journey might be a casualty of the "old way of thinking and planning", on the city-scale, driving a block or two out of the way and staying on the main street is not a problem for most residents because of the benefits they get from it.

I agree with FK4 that reconnecting Smith St would be a great benefit, but to me, that's because it removes a super block allows for better access to the parcels. The point isn't so that people can race down Smith St to avoid Tremont/Brigham traffic.
 

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