60 Kilmarnock St | Fenway

odurandina

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The design is fine....
Neither great nor terrible. Build it like it's 1970?

....as a rule, development that replaces existing buildings should never decrease the the number of street-facing retail spaces. Gleaming, empty lobbies do nothing for the built environment, whereas small-footprint restaurants and shops give it life.
True.

Still, words like "urban form" and "human scale" (GeoLove in the Globe yesterday make me want to throw up.

The surrounding blocks allow for a decent, mid-rise peak here.

Add a couple of floors. The land can handle 600-700 units easily.

We're never going to put a serious dent in this housing shortage,

This just another lost opportunity.

Build baby build.

(puking).
 

Suffolk 83

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I can see where some are coming from but I dont feel as strongly... either way, I looked for an apartment in this area, there probably wont be a ton of dissent- a ton of rentals in this area
 

dshoost88

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Looks great. Genuinely curious to see how much these will list for.
 

Downburst

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Yeah, I think these will turn out quite nicely. That said, at least one additional retail space feels like a must.
 

JumboBuc

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http://www.bostonplans.org/getattachment/5b7b2590-984f-449f-8036-828c70784edc

Slides from last night's meeting - some architectural tweaks and the bridge/pass-through is gone.
The bridge/pass-through along Queensberry is gone, so that's a win. This is a situation where square footage has been added in response to design feedback. However, the bridge over the alleyway is still there. It's been pared back and given some interesting texture, but it's still there.

I like the angled bays rather than the rectangular ones and the additional textured brick work in this iteration.

Also, very cool that "K Street" gets a permanent location here. That's a facility that hosts addiction / mental health / social support group / etc. meetings (think AA and the like); it's currently located in one of the retail spaces on this site along Kilmarnock.

This is definitely a step in the right direction, but the project still needs more retail and less lobby. Basically, K Street keeps its spot and the new retail space replaces the lost Tapestry space; that still results in a net loss of five small retail bays. New development in the Fenway should keep adding small retail, not removing it.

Both of the Kilmarnock and Queensberry corners should be retail.
 

FenwayResident

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Looks great. Genuinely curious to see how much these will list for.
Depends how luxury the trim/amenity package is. I'd guess somewhere in the range of $1200/sqft, so ~$750k for a 1br and ~$1M for a 2br. Currently the Fenway market is around $1000/sqft for nice, older units. There aren't really many comps for new construction in this area except for Pierce which is ~$1500/sqft and most likely a more luxury trim with better amenities.
 

estyle

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I'm afraid I disagree. 451 Marlborough is one of my favorite recent Boston buildings--it is so contextual and at the same time utterly of it's moment. It's a building that really does a good job of understanding the Back Bay (unsurprisingly, it was reviewed by the Back Bay Architectural Commission).

60 Kilmarnock is a great proposal that needs some work in terms of scale and materiality and a clearer understanding that it is in the neighborhood and not on Boylston. But it's just not a subtle and refined as 451. It a lot of ways it can't be because the finances here are leading to a building that is just a bit too tall and too massive. Getting rid of the bridge over the alley would be a huge improvement too, but that also isn't going to happen.

It looks like it is clearly going to be a great building, the changes we've seen already are really promising.


I like the scale and design. It will be a great addition to the neighborhood. It reminds me of 451 Marlborough Street.

451 Marlborough Str.
 

FK4

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Did they ever end up adding more retail?
 

sm89

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Did they ever end up adding more retail?
Actually, compared to the September presentation, it looks like the sole retail spot was reduced by 2/3.
 

FK4

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Actually, compared to the September presentation, it looks like the sole retail spot was reduced by 2/3.
That’s very concerning... I’m sorry but while the design and density are great, this is a terrible development as it eliminates multiple existing retail spaces. Does anyone know why that is the case?

There seems to be a difficulty in newer and particularly larger new developments in recreating small retail spaces, as small as the ones they replace. I’m wondering why that is. Many new developments for whatever reason seem to actually build retail space that is way too big for the area, and consequently spaces have a hard time getting let due to an overly costly price/sq foot. This obviously goes beyond this one development but is part of a trend where we are losing the small retail which is the backbone of the charm of Boston neighborhoods, and either replacing it with larger and fewer retail/restaurant spaces with a decreased diversity of businesses... basically, you either wind up with more expensive and upscale establishments that can afford the high rent, or a chain bank or cell phone store.

Sorry to be cynical about a project that everyone else seems enthusiastic about, but the Fenway is a cozy warren of street level retail and anything that chips away at this aspect is a net negative, in my opinion. I think developments like this should give everyone pause to consider why small businesses are getting eroded away, particularly in newer developments where it seems like an analysis of the problem might produce solutions for future projects.
 

JumboBuc

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I live a Mookie Betts stone's throw from this site, and I've gotten over all of my earlier reservations about this project except for the loss of retail space.

The Fenway does a pretty much perfect job of blending a dense and vibrant retail environment into what is primarily a residential neighborhood. This project is a huge improvement on the residential front (replacing crumbling garages and shady parking lots with a ton of units) but it's a loss on the retail front. Queensberry is easily the prettiest, most tree-lined street in the neighborhood, so I get keeping the ground floor there all residential. But the Kilmarnock ground floors should have retail on all three frontages, not just one. The massing tucked behind restaurant row does a good job of slotting the residential lobby in behind retail space; I don't understand why the same couldn't be done with the other two residential lobbies on Kilmarnock. They both appear to be way bigger than they need to be.

By the way, a hand-written sign showed up in the window of Hidyan Cafe (at the NE corner of Queensberry and Kilmarnock) this week that says: "PERMANENTLY CLOSED!! P.s. We still love you tho. Ozzy."

Also, I wonder what the phasing plans for this project are. No way they build it all in one go, right? Slide 4 of the January BCDC deck makes it look like the project is designed as three distinct buildings. My guess is probably that they'll build the "middle one" (on the E side of Kilmarnock) first, leaving the buildings at the Tapestry and Queensberry garge sites for later.
 

odurandina

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Retail in Boston is in a c o n t r a c t i o n. You can't add retail to every/every other 4-5 story thing popping up. It's not possible + ain't going to happen.

And it's a good thing; be happy. i'm happy retail isn't in near collapse to the point where it's openly called a crisis. Yet, the business environment is already creating hardships that have put business owners, and the quality of life and consumer choices at grave risk in this City.
 

JumboBuc

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Retail in Boston is in a c o n t r a c t i o n. You can't add retail to every/every other 4-5 story thing popping up. It's not possible + ain't going to happen.

And it's a good thing; be happy. i'm happy retail isn't in near collapse to the point where it's openly called a crisis. Yet, the business environment is already creating hardships that have put business owners, and the quality of life and consumer choices at grave risk in this City.
This could not be more wrong. Go ahead and compare the amount of vibrant successful retail in the Fenway right now to the amount at any time in history. But all that supply and available space still commands sky-high rents.

Sure, downward pricing pressure will eventually increase with additional supply, but even retail space at, say, an affordable price of $40/ft would still deliver way more cash flow to landlords than empty lobby space does.
 

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