8-10 Waldo Street | Coolidge Corner | Brookline

[shmessy]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

Something like this is what should have been proposed at this spot (minus the white precast). This is the Mass + Main proposal in Cambridge.

This current proposal looks more like a hospital then a residence.

I'm ok with tall. I'm not ok with soul-killing.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

i practically grew up in Coolidge Corner. i have a huge personal connection to the neighborhood. i'd love to see it grow up a little; a little. i'm with you. Give the developer an A- for density and a D+ for design. The op is an instant classic. They're gonna cringe when they see this thread.

 

[DZH22]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

1) What was at Assembly Row before they built it? Did it look like this?

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.342...A5ylnIqK9J009W4lKg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

As far as I can tell everything visible in this picture will remain. There would be an ugly glass tower hulking behind and towards the right side of the CVS building.

Once again - - #1 from my post. What was there before? Anything like the Coolidge Corner Theatre? The S.S. Pierce Building?

...............Context.

If this (or some iteration of it) is built, will the Coolidge Corner Theater still be there? Will the S.S. Pierce Building still be there? Is the Boston area already a mish-mash of all different eras coexisting side-by-side? (aka precedent)

Let me save you the trouble: Yes, yes, and yes.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

i sure hope so.

i have great memories of dozens of movies there as a kid.

 

[shmessy]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

As far as I can tell everything visible in this picture will remain. There would be an ugly glass tower hulking behind and towards the right side of the CVS building.



If this (or some iteration of it) is built, will the Coolidge Corner Theater still be there? Will the S.S. Pierce Building still be there? Is the Boston area already a mish-mash of all different eras coexisting side-by-side? (aka precedent)

Let me save you the trouble: Yes, yes, and yes.

Plunking that _______ in the middle of this jewel box of a neighborhood diminishes the entirety.

C'mon, DZ, you're too smart to be completely ignoring the concept of an urban fabric. Some things WORK in a Kendall Square, Seaport or Assembly Square. This would work fine in those three places. It obliterates Coolidge Corner.

Like I wrote before, let there be height - - but be contextual. This is an area with a vibe.

Look, unlike Odurandina, I din't grow up there and I don't have a dog in the fight. But I have been there before and that place is special. Please don't kill it. Enhance it, densify it, but don't kill it.

 

[whighlander]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

The design sucks but the density should be encouraged. There are plenty of terrible 8-15 story 60's and 70's residential buildings lining Beacon Street, so it's not like there is no precedent for mid or high-rises in the area. It's even right next to a nice, older 8-9 story brick building. So not terribly out of scale, and right by a major T stop.

However, again, the glass is bad, and the whole thing looks like a 1980's office building. The cladding/design is much more of a problem than the massing/use.

DZH22 and Schmessy -- both of you are taring this building with the '80's and Waltham office park brush -- perhaps you should do some research -- there were no glass buildings built in the 1980's in Waltham or anywhere along Rt-128. The typical 80's office park building was a couple of stories of masonry with some bands of windows

These are 80's Rt-128 office park bldgs with some more recent renovations

 

[DZH22]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

Plunking that _______ in the middle of this jewel box of a neighborhood diminishes the entirety.

C'mon, DZ, you're too smart to be completely ignoring the concept of an urban fabric....

I said right off the bat that it was an ugly design. I am defending the size/density for the location as opposed to the specific proposal itself. I am also pointing out that this is par for the course around Boston. For instance, look at Mellon Bank and the Old State House. It works. This can work too, with a better design.

I do not disagree with you that the current iteration is ugly and out of place. I disagree with the knee-jerk NIMBYism that nothing substantial can ever be built here because of the theater or S.S. Pierce Building. The entire city is different eras coexisting side by side.

 

[Czervik.Construction]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

The glass portion looks awful. Like something in the midwest or Irvine, CA.

 

[shmessy]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

I said right off the bat that it was an ugly design. I am defending the size/density for the location as opposed to the specific proposal itself. I am also pointing out that this is par for the course around Boston. For instance, look at Mellon Bank and the Old State House. It works. This can work too, with a better design.

I do not disagree with you that the current iteration is ugly and out of place. I disagree with the knee-jerk NIMBYism that nothing substantial can ever be built here because of the theater or S.S. Pierce Building. The entire city is different eras coexisting side by side.

I have absolutely no idea with whom you are arguing about "knee-jerk NIMBYism that nothing substantial can ever be built here". I've stated often and very clearly:

Post #7: "#2 I'm ok with the 7-8 story brick portion."

Post #15: "Look, the 7-8 story brick portion in the picture is contextual and fine. The 21 story cheap glass portion? That's just architectural terrorism"

Post #22: "I'm ok with tall. I'm not ok with soul-killing."

Post #25: "Like I wrote before, let there be height - - but be contextual. This is an area with a vibe."


I think I have made it very clear, no? Nothing against "substantial" and "height". But this is not Kendall Square, or the Seaport. Context.

I'd love it if the area is built up with some beautiful buildings that enliven the area, not kill the soul.

.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

Crazy idea. Would Art Deco leaning modernism work here at about 18-20 stories, with something very artistic up top. ...something actually expensive.

 

[shmessy]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

Crazy idea. Would Art Deco leaning modernism work here at about 18-20 stories, with something very artistic up top. ...something actually expensive.

YES!!!!!!!!!

This area virtually screams for that.

 

[tysmith95]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

Developer mindset:

Money >>>>> Architectural Value

The fact that it doesn't need to be approved by the city (40B) makes the architecturally pleasing requirement even less important. It sucks but that's the way that capitalism works.

However I still think that 40B is a great program. I wish the state would incentivise developers to build the 40B structures next to transit (commuter rail for most 40B communities) However the fact that the program forces snobby ass communities to build enough housing to support region wide growth is great. I think that area housing costs would be closer to San Francisco if this program didn't exist.

 

[FK4]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

^The one that tysmith posted isn't as awful. Tall right on beacon is a better location, aesthetically, as well.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

i like Skanska Burger King. But, we're doing so many bland boxes.

A change of pace would be epic.

 

[BeeLine]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

I would go for something like the 131 Beverly project. Quality and density.


https://flic.kr/p/NEM621

 

[ErnieAdams]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

Relevant to the discussion, though better suited for another thread if more information is available: this is not the only 40B proposal for Coolidge Corner that would go tall. Back in August, the Tab had info about a 14-story proposal that would replace Neenas on Beacon Street, basically at the exact spot where the crappy render for the Waldo Street proposal takes its POV. More info linked here and quoted below:

Chestnut Hill Investments, and Raj Dhanda are proposing 108 units and 183 parking spots on the site of a narrow 18,632 square foot lot. The developer plans to cover about 88 percent of the land and mostly build up, proposing a garage with 24 hour attendants to park cars, a retail space and then 12 floors of one- and two-bedroom apartments. Dhanda estimates the project will cost $67.4 million.

When the architect showed renderings of what the building would look like against the current skyline, there were murmurs, then gasps and then cries of "Oh no!" among the two dozen or so people in the selectman room audience as he clicked through the slides.

My hat goes off to anyone who wants to sleuth up the renders that led to such scandalization and pop them into the Brookline Developments thread.

And again, between Hancock Village, the thing on Cypress Street, the proposal above, another proposal in the same link, and the one in this thread, it would be really helpful to know when Brookline will be considered to have hit 10% for 40B purposes. They're definitely getting an influx of 40B proposals in Brookline because the option is about to come off the table, but it's not clear to me whether everyone who gets approved gets to build.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

This looks like butt ass.

 

[whighlander]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

Relevant to the discussion, though better suited for another thread if more information is available: this is not the only 40B proposal for Coolidge Corner that would go tall. Back in August, the Tab had info about a 14-story proposal that would replace Neenas on Beacon Street, basically at the exact spot where the crappy render for the Waldo Street proposal takes its POV. More info linked here and quoted below:



My hat goes off to anyone who wants to sleuth up the renders that led to such scandalization and pop them into the Brookline Developments thread.

And again, between Hancock Village, the thing on Cypress Street, the proposal above, another proposal in the same link, and the one in this thread, it would be really helpful to know when Brookline will be considered to have hit 10% for 40B purposes. They're definitely getting an influx of 40B proposals in Brookline because the option is about to come off the table, but it's not clear to me whether everyone who gets approved gets to build.

ErnieAdams -- i believe that for 40B to work -- the threshold has not to be met when the proposal to build is placed into the hopper

Therefore say there are 3 proposals that come in anyone of which would put the town over the 10% when they are ready for residents. As long as all 3 come in as proposals before the 10% threshold is reached, they all get to go ahead. Say one is much larger and takes long enough that the other two are completed. and the the threshold has been well passed -- for the purposes of the 40B proposal the one still under construction is operating within the 40B statute.

Now I suspect there might be pathological cases where two proposals come under the threshold and both start into construction. Suppose that a fire [such as in Cambridge over the weekend] occurs during construction of the first. The developer then goes bankrupt and the bank then sells the development with 40B rights attached to another developer who finishes the project years later. Not sure of that scenario.

 

[whighlander]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

Developer mindset:

Money >>>>> Architectural Value

The fact that it doesn't need to be approved by the city (40B) makes the architecturally pleasing requirement even less important. It sucks but that's the way that capitalism works.

However I still think that 40B is a great program. I wish the state would incentivise developers to build the 40B structures next to transit (commuter rail for most 40B communities) However the fact that the program forces snobby ass communities to build enough housing to support region wide growth is great. I think that area housing costs would be closer to San Francisco if this program didn't exist.

TySmith -- Maybe there should be a 40B1 -- if you build within 0.5 mi of a Transit hub you get 40B treatment up to say 20% threshold for housing instead of 10% if you build further away. Maybe there should be an intermediate 15% for building within an easy walk of a bus route or equivalent such as the #77 up Mass Ave in Arlington

 

[Scipio]

Re: 8-10 Waldo Street Coolidge Corner Brookline

Yet another vote for good density, but nasty form and materials.

They're going to get massacred if they take that in front of the Brookline public. Unless they're playing seven dimensional mah-jong and are sharing an intentionally bad design that they can improve and make people feel their views have been heard.