Amazon HQ2 RFP

[bigpicture7]

All I was pointing out is that the number of units Boston needs to create would be in the hundreds of thousands, not tens of thousands, if Amazon were to come here.

I don't disagree.

Amazon or not, the city should commit to building 100,000, not 50,000 new units over the next dozen years or so.

Yes.

- - - -

All I am trying to say is that if you don't include raising the standard of living and increasing opportunity for those who are already here in this conversation, then right off the bat you are going to end up with a substantial resistance to any sort of growth from a segment of the incumbent population. 38% of the city essentially expressed that they are anti-growth in November, in case you didn't notice [CORRECTION: 34% of those who voted...thanks dshoost]. The fact of the matter is that smart growth includes opportunity for those who live here. There's no reason these elements of the conversation can't be merged, instead of harboring a one-or-the-other mentality (e.g., we must choose between new housing OR new jobs, not both).

 

[dshoost88]

But, remember all of the low income families that are already here...whose kids are in Boston Public Schools. If Amazon is a true community partner, then they should be building programs to enact a pipeline from those communities into their new jobs. Whether via UMass Boston or MIT or everything in between, there is a local route from Rox/Dot/HydePark/Eastie into a $100k job. Or let me say it differently: if there isn't, then this is a sham deal for Boston.

In other words, filling all 50,000 of these jobs should NOT involve importing 50,000 new people.

To the City's credit and to that of a at least a couple higher learning institutions, there are many working behind the scenes to educate and retain homegrown Boston residents to work in STEAM-field, $100,000/year types of jobs. Northeastern University, for example, has numerous scholarship opportunities for graduates from Boston Public Schools. And if you flip to Page 153 of the Boston Amazon HQ2 RFP Response, you'll see that Northeastern, again, is top of the heap among degrees awarded to engineers and computer scientists (second only to MIT). And that's just one school... overall, we award A LOT of degrees annually in these fields.

If Boston has any competitive edge over most other regions seeking Amazon, I'd say that it's demonstrated a pattern of working to educate more people for the careers of tomorrow and succeeded at retaining more of them locally in the last decade.

For further reading on this topic, I highly recommend you check out this report from the BPDA's (nee BRA's) Research Division.

 

[dshoost88]

38% of the city essentially expressed that they are anti-growth in November, in case you didn't notice.

Sorry to be a #'s whore, but according to Boston Election Department data, only 27.80% of registered Boston voters cast ballots in the November election. And only 34% of those votes were for Tito Jackson (whom I assume you're implying was the anti-growth candidate). So technically only 9.5% of the city's registered voters essentially expressed that they are anti-growth in November (again, assuming a vote for Tito Jackson is a NIMBY/anti-growth vote).

Not bad.

 

[bigpicture7]

dshoost, both excellent posts, keeping me grounded : )

(i think the general concept still stands though: that new jobs can be means of enabling class mobility among those already living in Boston)
(i also believe that antigrowth sentiment is a lot more than 9.5%, but we can't know the exact number)

Btw, I work in engineering higher education and had seen that (excellent) city report you cited above. While its info is great, it is written very defensively (e.g., making the case that the fact that lots of Boston college students leave the city shouldn't be alarming since a) so many of them are imports to come to college here from elsewhere in the first place, and b) since the city produces such an outsized number of number of college grads for its size). This defensiveness serves a valid purpose of quelling unreasonable alarm about the exodus...but it really is a separate topic from the upward mobility argument I am making.

But regarding the first part of your first post, I agree 100%...that yes, a strength of Boston is such programs to get kids into these degree tracks. I hope Amazon can see the value here.

 

[Downburst]

The city has an annual figure of housing units. My understanding from Sheila Dillon's statement before the election is that they will meet the 52k total for housing units years ahead of schedule.

If I remember correctly from a recent Globe article, 23k units of the 53k goal have been built/permitted/approved.

 

[Rover]

In terms of housing, IMHO with a not too difficult amount of effort and planning the city can reach those 100,000 units and extra 200,000 people, which would push the city to a new height in population but would basically get it to where San Francisco is now on a similar land area. These major parcels are on or near rail lines which helps.

The issue the city is going to have is what happens after you do this over the next dozen years and then people keep coming? 2030 ain't that far off, and that's where its going to get super tricky.

 

[TheRifleman]

The homeless population is rising, particularly on the West Coast. Most people blame the tech boom. At this point, our first priority needs to be housing, or else "winning" the Amazon bid will exacerbate the problem here too.

https://www.npr.org/2017/12/06/5686...riven-by-west-coast-affordable-housing-crisis

That's my entire point.
How do you give such incentives to continue to enrich billion dollar corporations to build on PRIME PROPERTY as we continue to watch Income Inequality erode the working class.

Prime Property will always have value. Why not let the markets determine the value of supply and demand.

The problem with Amazon location is we are having real problems with addressing infrastructure issues for the surrounding community.

Traffic has become a serious problem for the surrounding areas outside Boston.

 

[odurandina]

Curbed story; Amazon @8M sq ft + 7,500 units, 550,000 sq ft retail & 830 hotel rooms at SD....

https://boston.curbed.com/boston-de...ffolk-downs-redevelopment-amazon-construction

How do you give such incentives to continue to enrich billion dollar corporations to build on PRIME PROPERTY as we continue to watch Income Inequality erode the working class...
.

Because the alternative is considerably worse.

No tax revenue was lost jump-starting the Seaport with seemingly INSANE land and tax deals. or at Liberty Mutual, or GE, or anyplace else. Quite the contrary. Boston is HOT in no small part because THE MENINO went rogue on the NIMBY's and anti-capitalists in his final months in office.

The big corporations are not the cause of our lack of affordable housing..... It's inadequate planning including a poor effort to start more than a dozen potential air-rights' projects, planners caving to the nimby's threats.... and the suburbs not contributing their fair share to improve transit that are the main problems.

With transit done properly, Walsh's 50,000 units can increase to a number like 125,000 units by 2035, and maybe 25~35,000 more units at transit stations in the non-incorporated metro, and suburbs...

*there are more Air Rights projects in the works that could change the game if the State can (somehow) devise an effective way to work with the $$$ and developers to start them. Amazon could be a spark.....

 

[kmp1284]

Does Boston really have an affordable housing problem? I've never had to wait long for a barista at Starbucks(and now Caffe Nero, yay!) or a sales associate at Brooks Brothers or have not had my hotel room cleaned. It seems more like an entitlement problem which is to say that people feel they are entitled to live at a certain standard or in a certain neighborhood regardless of whether they can pay for it or not.

 

[KentXie]

Does Boston really have an affordable housing problem? I've never had to wait long for a barista at Starbucks(and now Caffe Nero, yay!) or a sales associate at Brooks Brothers or have not had my hotel room cleaned. It seems more like an entitlement problem which is to say that people feel they are entitled to live at a certain standard or in a certain neighborhood regardless of whether they can pay for it or not.

Is it though? The previous generation could afford a home easily after college or high school because they weren't saddle with loans. Maybe the Millennials feel entitled because the previous generation had it a little bit easier....

And before you come with the "well maybe they shouldn't have spent money going to college," most of the non-college jobs that existed in the previous generation no longer exists.

 

[JohnAKeith]

Overall, the nation's homeless numbers are 13 percent lower than they were in 2010 and some communities have all but eliminated homelessness among veterans, emphasized HUD Secretary Ben Carson.

The homeless population is rising, particularly on the West Coast. Most people blame the tech boom. At this point, our first priority needs to be housing, or else "winning" the Amazon bid will exacerbate the problem here too.

https://www.npr.org/2017/12/06/5686...riven-by-west-coast-affordable-housing-crisis

 

[JohnAKeith]

Oh, boy. Post this on the internet and watch what happens.

But, mostly it doesn't, in my opinion. I wouldn't say "entitlement" but 'tis true, everybody seems to think that being able to live on Commonwealth Ave is a right.

Well, I guess that means entitlement.

Does Boston really have an affordable housing problem? I've never had to wait long for a barista at Starbucks(and now Caffe Nero, yay!) or a sales associate at Brooks Brothers or have not had my hotel room cleaned. It seems more like an entitlement problem which is to say that people feel they are entitled to live at a certain standard or in a certain neighborhood regardless of whether they can pay for it or not.

 

[KentXie]

Oh, boy. Post this on the internet and watch what happens.

But, mostly it doesn't, in my opinion. I wouldn't say "entitlement" but 'tis true, everybody seems to think that being able to live on Commonwealth Ave is a right.

Well, I guess that means entitlement.

Idk about you but Commonwealth Ave is wicked cheap relatively wise (past Packards Corner I mean)

 

[FenwayResident]

Does Boston really have an affordable housing problem? I've never had to wait long for a barista at Starbucks(and now Caffe Nero, yay!) or a sales associate at Brooks Brothers or have not had my hotel room cleaned. It seems more like an entitlement problem which is to say that people feel they are entitled to live at a certain standard or in a certain neighborhood regardless of whether they can pay for it or not.

Oh, boy. Post this on the internet and watch what happens.

But, mostly it doesn't, in my opinion. I wouldn't say "entitlement" but 'tis true, everybody seems to think that being able to live on Commonwealth Ave is a right.

Well, I guess that means entitlement.

Get out of here with these garbage strawman arguments. No one on this board is saying that prime real estate is a right.

What people have a problem with is housing prices rising twice as fast as incomes.

The rent situation isn't doing much better:

More and more people are being priced out of housing, have to endure huge commutes, and live in undesirable situations. I've read stories about people working in San Francisco commuting 2 hours each way even though they make close to six figure incomes. Do we really want Boston to become like that?

It can definitely be avoided if we anticipate and plan for future growth. Fifty thousand units is a good start, but realistically we need over 100,000, especially if Amazon moves HQ2 here.

 

[bigpicture7]

Does Boston really have an affordable housing problem? I've never had to wait long for a barista at Starbucks(and now Caffe Nero, yay!) or a sales associate at Brooks Brothers or have not had my hotel room cleaned. It seems more like an entitlement problem which is to say that people feel they are entitled to live at a certain standard or in a certain neighborhood regardless of whether they can pay for it or not.

Yes, your barista feels entitled to be able to live in a triple decker with roommates in allston, dorchester, or chelsea.

Sounds like your resentment problem is a lot bigger than their "entitlement" problem. I'm sorry you are jealous of them.

And thank you, Fenway, for reminding the unenlightened that this is all about change over time as orchestrated by those who lobby against basic social compacts, such as that the minimum wage ought to be tied to a dynamic index, rather than left to intentionally become obsolete. Another social compact is that slavery should be illegal. Another is that murder should be illegal. We live in a society of social compacts.

Feel free to go find a society that is devoid of social compacts if you wish. They exist in the world. I am pretty sure they don't have caffee neros.

No one on this board is saying that prime real estate is a right.

^ this.

 

[tysmith95]

Does Boston really have an affordable housing problem? I've never had to wait long for a barista at Starbucks(and now Caffe Nero, yay!) or a sales associate at Brooks Brothers or have not had my hotel room cleaned. It seems more like an entitlement problem which is to say that people feel they are entitled to live at a certain standard or in a certain neighborhood regardless of whether they can pay for it or not.

I feel as if Boston has lots of low income subsidized housing, which many people making 20-30k a year for a service job earn.

The people that feel the squeeze are families making 70 80 or 90k a year. That's too much to qualify for much in the way of affordable housing yet it's hard to find a 3 bed place with that salary.

 

[Gameguy326]

I feel as if Boston has lots of low income subsidized housing, which many people making 20-30k a year for a service job earn.

The people that feel the squeeze are families making 70 80 or 90k a year. That's too much to qualify for much in the way of affordable housing yet it's hard to find a 3 bed place with that salary.

+1

In many parts of the city, "market rate" is effectively luxury housing. There is a large middle-income donut hole.

On topic, I would love for Amazon to come here. But if 50,000 jobs do move here, I am worried not only about us keeping up with housing development, but also the incredible voting bloc that Amazon then harnesses. Will all future Boston politicians cater policies to Amazon thereafter?

 

[odurandina]

Start stacking (Serenity's x 1 or 2) directly above the tracks on the commuter and subway lines clear out to Billerica, Norwood and Stoughton.

 

[TheRifleman]

Curbed story; Amazon @8M sq ft + 7,500 units, 550,000 sq ft retail & 830 hotel rooms at SD....

https://boston.curbed.com/boston-de...ffolk-downs-redevelopment-amazon-construction



Because the alternative is considerably worse.

No tax revenue was lost jump-starting the Seaport with seemingly INSANE land and tax deals. or at Liberty Mutual, or GE, or anyplace else. Quite the contrary. Boston is HOT in no small part because THE MENINO went rogue on the NIMBY's and anti-capitalists in his final months in office.

The big corporations are not the cause of our lack of affordable housing..... It's inadequate planning including a poor effort to start more than a dozen potential air-rights' projects, planners caving to the nimby's threats.... and the suburbs not contributing their fair share to improve transit that are the main problems.

With transit done properly, Walsh's 50,000 units can increase to a number like 125,000 units by 2035, and maybe 25~35,000 more units at transit stations in the non-incorporated metro, and suburbs...

*there are more Air Rights projects in the works that could change the game if the State can (somehow) devise an effective way to work with the $$$ and developers to start them. Amazon could be a spark.....

I would have like the city & state to have invested in a underground transit for the area for Seaport or other Monorail ideas or concepts. before the developments starting to get built. I would have rather see the infrastructure in place.
Then consider giving incentives for the developers to pretty much develop the area if their was no demand.

 

[Justin7]

Sounds like your resentment problem is a lot bigger than their "entitlement" problem. I'm sorry you are jealous of them.

The primary purpose of most of KMP's posts lately is just to let people know he has money. Don't take him too seriously.