Amazon HQ2 RFP

[tobyjug]

yup, that sounds great. I moved to the States 11 years ago and couldn't believe the age and condition of the commuter rail system here. The trains looked (and still look) like antiques. And then I saw the cost of using the system. Nuts! Still tho, at least there is a system.

Ha. You want antiques ride the PCC streetcars on the Mattapan-Ashmont run. Those things are good for another 50 years. If you had tuk tuks in the streets, you could be in Calcutta.

 

[jass]

Yah you got places like Lowell, Salem, Lynn, etc that have commuter rail service and tons of potential. But the commuter rail is infrequent and from the north side only goes to one corner of the city requiring a transfer to get to most office buildings.

Still the NSRL is essential..

I dont agree. Commuters in NYC are also dropped off in a corner and it's fine.

But frequency is a problem.

As sad as this looks, at least SEPTA is offering trains 2 times an hour on weekends.

VS MBTA with 3 hour gaps off peak.

 

[tysmith95]

America is like third world with regards to transit.

Even in NYC, sure the network is huge but it looks like its never cleaned and is unreliable. Boston is cleaner, but we also have reliability issues.

I've never taken transit in Philly so I can't comment.

 

[tobyjug]

I'm an old enough dog to have ridden on many of the now disappeared streetcar lines that were converted to bus routes. One thing I recall about their loss was the attitude that rail transport was obsolete and public transport was for losers. That attitude explained a lot (neglect, eventual demise of once grand train stations, etc.), as does the "I want it when I want it" itch that the automobile scratches.

 

[tangent]

Agreed. Although one of the worst concepts that dominated the 20th century is the concept of zoning. Having separate residential, commercial, and office zones was the dumbest idea. It is really the biggest failure of the 20th century. And it's really a 20th century thing, cities before them were predominantly mixed use.

One zoning issue that I still hate is wealthy suburbs aversion to any multi family developments. 40B helps though.

Except where I have seen 40B and multifamily zoning used in poorly planned suburbs is far away from transit and/or far away from the walkable Town Centers where it would make the most sense as redevelopment. Personally I like suburban neighborhoods or even the denser but still single family neighborhoods like you find in places like West Roxbury or Town centers like Lexington. Randomly dumping apartment buildings on swampland because it happens to be still undeveloped is terrible planning.

Non-mixed use separate zoning does still make sense with heavy or even some light industrial uses that are going to be too loud, too dangerous, too mind numbingly ugly to be near where people live... but I agree that you want all the uses that are compatible with residential and necessary for people to make a living... groceries,shops and retail stores, restaurants, bars, offices, maybe some very light industrial workshops.

 

[tangent]

That originally emanted from a desire, and really a need, to live away from industrial zones, which were quite filthy up until the late 70's with rise of the EPA and thereafter most manufacturing moving overseas. The problem is it was never logically adjusted back and now there is a heavy nimby presence to any zoning changes.

Health and safety are still a concern on the industrial zoning side. We need industry, but look at that small paint mixing factory in Danvers some years back... luckily had some set backs at least, but that explosion took out a number of houses and many many windows. Just some fan that was left off or on at the end of the day and boom. Or go way back to the molasses flood... some level of industry just needs to be physically separate from where people live at least and it is good to keep that in mind when we see industrial areas and think "mixed" use opportunities.

 

[tysmith95]

I'm an old enough dog to have ridden on many of the now disappeared streetcar lines that were converted to bus routes. One thing I recall about their loss was the attitude that rail transport was obsolete and public transport was for losers. That attitude explained a lot (neglect, eventual demise of once grand train stations, etc.), as does the "I want it when I want it" itch that the automobile scratches.

I'm a millennial so I have no idea what those lines were like. Were they separated from automobile traffic or were most of them street running?

Looking at maps of old trolley lines it looks like many of them ran in places with wide streets today like Blue Hill Ave.

 

[HenryAlan]

I'm a millennial so I have no idea what those lines were like. Were they separated from automobile traffic or were most of them street running?

Looking at maps of old trolley lines it looks like many of them ran in places with wide streets today like Blue Hill Ave.

Both. There were trolley reservations on Blue Hill Ave, for example, but much of it was street running, which became more and more difficult as cars started to dominate the road network.

 

[tobyjug]

They were right in the street. These were true street cars, like you get if you are heading out by Parker Hill Road, etc. For a car driver it is like having a bull charge at you.

At first the government just paved over the tracks (think Galen Street), and couldn't figure out why the pavement broke up and there were slick spots. Eventually the rails got pulled up (but I bet there are some still out there.)

 

[stellarfun]

This is getting way, way off thread topic, but this is a photograph from the late 1930s, in Washington DC. (The view is looking east from Wisconsin Ave. Most of the afternoon rush hour traffic is headed to Virginia.)

 

[stellarfun]

Back on topic,

This is what will lure Amazon to Boston, .... no other finalist city that I'm aware of can match this.

While computers have become highly effective at finding patterns and learning from them, they can’t do much that we would recognize as humanlike intelligence. MIT wants to change that. The Intelligence Quest program — or MIT IQ — will help connect [over 200] researchers across disciplines and support projects in which they work together, as well as seek collaborations with industry.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...like-people/Bf98liD2l0RI1VPQHtxh5K/story.html

From September 2017

IBM on Thursday said it would spend $240 million over the next decade on an artificial intelligence research lab it is launching with MIT, in hopes of unlocking new advances in a field that the technology giant sees as a major factor in its future.

The new MIT–IBM Watson AI Lab will gather more that 100 scientists, professors, and students to do research at the university’s campus and at the technology giant’s nearby offices in Kendall Square, MIT said in a news release.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...al-with-mit/ioBOrlikda2r1HetRtjlEK/story.html

 

[tangent]

Back on topic,

Killjoy

This is what will lure Amazon to Boston, .... no other finalist city that I'm aware of can match this.



http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...like-people/Bf98liD2l0RI1VPQHtxh5K/story.html

From September 2017

https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...al-with-mit/ioBOrlikda2r1HetRtjlEK/story.html

It always came down to Harvard, MIT... and our other top Universities BU, BC, Brandeis, Tufts, Northeastern University and all the other Universities and colleges around Boston that are engines of Boston and Cambridge unmatched by any other city.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

Which is one major reason why transit connectivity with all those campus areas was and is so important going forward so that employers all around the city can draw on all the Universities for talent right out of school or as interns while they are still in school.

 

[34f34f]

It always came down to Harvard, MIT... and our other top Universities BU, BC, Brandeis, Tufts, Northeastern University and all the other Universities and colleges around Boston that are engines of Boston and Cambridge unmatched by any other city.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

Which is one major reason why transit connectivity with all those campus areas was and is so important going forward so that employers all around the city can draw on all the Universities for talent right out of school or as interns while they are still in school.

Based on US News' rankings, Boston and its immediate neighbors are home to 7 of the top 40 universities in the nation.

Around 50% of college graduates move away from Boston (PDF warning), with ~80% of those being "avoidable" (i.e., not moving home to be close to family). That means that there are ~60,000 college graduates each year who could be recruited to stay in the Boston area.

 

[jass]

NYC area has lots of colleges too. Columbia, Yale, Princeton, NYU, Rutgers, etc

 

[tangent]

Based on US News' rankings, Boston and its immediate neighbors are home to 7 of the top 40 universities in the nation.

Around 50% of college graduates move away from Boston (PDF warning), with ~80% of those being "avoidable" (i.e., not moving home to be close to family). That means that there are ~60,000 college graduates each year who could be recruited to stay in the Boston area.

Obviously a big part of that is job opportunities. If recent grads can just slip into a good paying job where they already interned 25 minutes away then I can see how Boston area would keep more recent grads. Once a new grad has to start thinking about moving 45 minutes or more away from the campus and neighborhoods they are familiar with then you are opening the door to other cities to lure away talent.


Some level of recent grads leaving the area isn't a bad thing. Grads going to other cities and other places around the world is what helps spread the name recognition of these Universities around the world.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Obviously a big part of that is job opportunities. If recent grads can just slip into a good paying job where they already interned 25 minutes away then I can see how Boston area would keep more recent grads. Once a new grad has to start thinking about moving 45 minutes or more away from the campus and neighborhoods they are familiar with then you are opening the door to other cities to lure away talent.


Some level of recent grads leaving the area isn't a bad thing. Grads going to other cities and other places around the world is what helps spread the name recognition of these Universities around the world.

Also, the idea that Boston loses 50% of its college grads is a bit misleading, since most of the students in Boston area colleges are not from Boston.

So keeping 50% of the Boston area grads is a net influx in college educated population/workforce, versus what would be possible from just local residents going to college.

 

[odurandina]

I've ridden Septa extensively all over the system mostly about 15 years ago. Went back to see a system experiencing far greater service interruptions, and controversy. Still, the commuter trains get people around better than ours.

They can split down to the small trains with greater frequency during off hours and weekends, and enjoy (obviously), way more off hours/weekend ridership.

 

[tangent]

NYC area has lots of colleges too. Columbia, Yale, Princeton, NYU, Rutgers, etc

If you are going far afield, then under Boston's tally you might as well include Brown, Dartmouth and the other colleges and Universities that are within a two hour drive.

 

[jass]

If you are going far afield, then under Boston's tally you might as well include Brown, Dartmouth and the other colleges and Universities that are within a two hour drive.

I would include any university where the kids go "to the city" on Saturday to party.

Brown, yes. Dartmouth, no.

 

[jpdivola]

I've ridden Septa extensively all over the system mostly about 15 years ago. Went back to see a system experiencing far greater service interruptions, and controversy. Still, the commuter trains get people around better than ours.

Yeah, SEPTA sucks. A true embarrassment for Philly. But, all in all, I think Philly is still probably a better match than Boston. For starters, Boston dosen't need Amazon's HQ. Its doing perfectly fine without it. The city already has enough challenges with housing/affordability.

Boston's universities are certainly better than Philly's (Although, Penn/Princeton aren't exactly slouches). But, a massive corp HQ needs lots of smart worker bees, not the 1% MIT revolutionary genius types.

Boston is wealthier and more polished than Philly, but Philly has undergone a remarkable transformation and has all the trendy yuppie bars/restaurants. More importantly, Boston is mid-sized city that is bursting at the seams. Philly is bigger city that is still in many ways still under capacity. Compare the plans for Cambridge Crossing to those for University City.

Ultimately, does Boston really need Amazon and vice versa.