[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Neither the Prudential Mall nor the Common are controlled by Chapter 91, the Massachusetts Public Waterfront Act.

OK, so in downtown Boston, how far inland does Chapter 91 apply? To the original MHW mark of 1630 (all fill land) (that seems to be the wording on the Mass.gov website)?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

OK, so in downtown Boston, how far inland does Chapter 91 apply? To the original MHW mark of 1630 (all fill land) (that seems to be the wording on the Mass.gov website)?

From my reading, Chapter 91 applies to:
Landlocked Tidelands means any filled tidelands which on January 1, 1984 were entirely separated by a public way or interconnected public ways from any flowed tidelands, except for that portion of such filled tidelands which are presently located:
(a) within 250 feet of the high water mark

The garage site would be within 250 feet of the high water mark. Atlantic Ave., across the Greenway from the garage, would not. East India Row would satisfy the separated by public way criterion, but the within 250 feet proximity criterion would not be met..

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As for Chelsea St in Charlestown, one would have to consult old maps to see whether it was built on filled tideland. If its not filled tideland, the 250 feet doesn't apply.

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Equilibria, I agree that if a way is provided for reasonably traversing the arcade without needing to step on the ice in the winter, that is all he needs to do to satisfy Chapter 91 with respect to public access and open space..

Chiofaro in his 'fact sheet' states the 'arcade' will be "open to the public at all times".

The dimensions in June of the arcade are somewhat trapezoidal, 168 feet wide at Atlantic Ave, 70 feet at East India Row. The Rockefeller Center rink, which Chiofaro says is significantly smaller than his, is 59 feet wide.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

So essentially Boston is just going to settle for mediocracy for the rest of time even after many opportunities for change.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

To further disappoint the enthusiasts for the tidal pool / steps, the garage property line ends at the tower footprints.

The frontage to the east of the towers is East India Row, owned by the city of Boston; to the east of East India Row is a strip of land, half of which is owned by the New England Aquarium, and half by the BRA. To the east of that strip is the proposed structure with the steps and tidal pool which seems to extend 50+ feet into the harbor.

So the proposed steps / tidal pool is to be built on land he doesn't own, and can be accessed only by crossing land owned by the public. The chance of a 404 permit being awarded for this structure are very slim.
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He could offer to fund improvements to city owned land as part of the negotiation process, couldn't he?

I imagine the City would be on board with this sort of innovative project, especially if they're not paying all of it.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I could definitely see the city being onboard seeing that this would be a drastic improvement over what is currently there and they wouldn't have to pay for it.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Neither the Prudential Mall nor the Common are controlled by Chapter 91, the Massachusetts Public Waterfront Act.

Stellar, my comment was related to the legal definition of "public open space", not Mass Chapter 91 specifically. There are generally recognized definitions for these things in the Commonwealth.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

So general question, which downtown waterfront development since 1990 has delivered 50% open space. Does the DEP always bend these rules downtown?

Intercontinental Hotel -- nice Harbor Walk, but not close to 50%
Atlantic Wharf -- even lower percentage than the neighbor above
Battery Wharf -- maybe -- hard to tell what is theirs versus neighbors
Spalding Rehab -- a lot of open space, but does not appear to be 50%

Are there other examples, particularly some with clearly 50% public open space?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

He could offer to fund improvements to city owned land as part of the negotiation process, couldn't he?

I imagine the City would be on board with this sort of innovative project, especially if they're not paying all of it.

Whether he fills in part of the harbor to build this steps to the sea feature is not up to the city. Any filling of the navigable waters of the United States is regulated by Federal law (section 404 of the Clean Water Act of 1972).

And, yes, the Corps of Engineers can and does issue permits allowing one to fill navigable waters. However, this steps to the sea and tidal shelf feature is being proposed largely to enhance the economic value of his property, using land (albeit submerged) that he does not own. That's a very weak basis for successfully securing such a permit.

Recently, San Francisco airport needed to fill 3.5 acres of wetland so the airport could strengthen one of the runways. Before the airport was allowed to do so, they had to commit to restoring about seven acres of wetland at the Presidio, so there would be no net loss. IMO, Chiofaro might get the okay for his steps to the sea if he committed to excavating existing land abutting Boston harbor and letting the sea fill the excavation. No net loss of navigable waters. However, I am not aware that Chiofaro owns any waterfront land that could be converted into a wetland or submerged land.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

So general question, which downtown waterfront development since 1990 has delivered 50% open space. Does the DEP always bend these rules downtown?

Intercontinental Hotel -- nice Harbor Walk, but not close to 50%
Atlantic Wharf -- even lower percentage than the neighbor above
Battery Wharf -- maybe -- hard to tell what is theirs versus neighbors
Spalding Rehab -- a lot of open space, but does not appear to be 50%

Are there other examples, particularly some with clearly 50% public open space?
Intercontinental hotel, land owned by the Commonwealth (IIRC, previously an Edison substation) and used as a CA/T vent shaft. How much of the site is still owned by the Commonwealth I know not.

Atlantic Wharf used the existing building(s) footprint as a podium if you will.

Spaulding Rehab, probably governed by a master plan for the entire Navy Yard.

If Chiofaro retained and built on top of the existing garage, then, IMO, the 50 percent general rule would not apply. But that's not what he is proposing. It wasn't the city or the HT residents who hung the huge banner along the Atlantic Ave facade of the garage saying 'Open to the Sea'.

I think the example you are looking for is Lovejoy. One existing building retained, one building demolished. Constructed a publicly accessible pier/quay with a footprint larger than the footprint of the demolished building.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Chiofaro disputes claim that Harbor Towers residents oppose his waterfront project
Thomas GrilloReal Estate Editor-
Boston Business Journal
Email | Twitter
Donald Chiofaro, the controversial developer who wants to replace the Boston Harbor Garage with a pair of towers on Boston's waterfront, rejects the claim that Harbor Towers residents oppose his $1 billion project.

In a letter to the Boston Redevelopment Authority and Mayor Martin J. Walsh yesterday, the 10 trustees of the Harbor Towers, home to the more than 1,000 residents next door to the garage, wrote that 1.3-million-square project is too big for 1.3-acre site.

But Chiofaro insists there is broad support for the project among the Harbor Towers community and the trustees' letter does not represent the views of most residents.

“There are 1,200 people that live at Harbor Towers and the trustees represent 12,” he said. “They may speak for some others, but I clearly know that the majority of the people at Harbor Towers that we’ve spoken to are in favor of it.”

Chiofaro appeared before the Downtown Waterfront Municipal Harbor Planning Advisory Committee on Wednesday. The 35-member panel advises City Hall on waterfront development.

The revised proposal includes a 600-foot — about 55 stories — residential tower with 120 condos and up to 300 hotel rooms and a 500-foot — about 45 stories — office building comprising 700,000 square feet of space.

Lee Kozol, chairman of Harbor Towers’ Garage Committee, who has lived in the complex since 1999 and is a trustee, said the overwhelming majority of Harbor Towers residents believe the proposal is too massive for the site.

“We did not do a poll, but the 10 trustees all walk around the same building and speak to friends, acquaintances and people we don’t know, who expressed their opinions,” he said.

Larry Post, an investor who owns five units at Harbor Towers, said he is an enthusiastic supporter of Chiofaro’s project.

“The trustees do not represent me, and as a person who owns five units, they never even asked my opinion or did a vote before they came up with that letter,” he said. “The garage is (one of) the ugliest things in the world. One of my units overlooks the garage and I’ve always wondered what it would be like if that monstrosity was replaced with something nice. And now we have a world class project that will increase my property values. Don wants to take an eyesore and invest $1 billion that will become a new city landmark.”

Vivian Li, a member of the Downtown Waterfront Municipal Harbor Planning Advisory Committee, said while Chiofaro has addressed some of the concerns of ground level uses by adding a skating rink and a farmer’s market, she and others question the wind and shadow impacts of the towers.

“The studies on those impacts have not been done and until that information becomes available, I will not take a position on the project,” she said.

This is awesome
“We did not do a poll, BUT
Lee Kozol, chairman of Harbor Towers’ Garage Committee, who has lived in the complex since 1999 and is a trustee, said the overwhelming majority of Harbor Towers residents believe the proposal is too massive for the site.

Are these people serious?

Maybe the majority don't want it --but at least give the people a vote. It's only 1200 people in the building. They can send out Flyers though-out the building?

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/real_estate/
 
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Harbor Tower residents seem to have an inordinate amount of power in the city, they also had a large say in how the Rose Kennedy Greenway would be developed in front of Harbor Towers. If memory serves me correctly, they insisted on no undue activity or noise, they pushed for a passive lawn which I think they got.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Harbor Tower residents seem to have an inordinate amount of power in the city.

Really, The article said that the residents didn't even vote on Chiofaro project. The Trustees just assumed that the majority don't want the project.

It seems the Trustees have some serious power.

How can Harbor Tower residents continue to have a private pool sided area that does not create public access to the waterfront on one side of the Greenway that was paid by the United States Taxpayers in almost 20 Billion dollars in cost. A little selfish if you ask me.
 
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

How can Harbor Tower residents continue to have a private pool sided area that does not create public access to the waterfront on one side of the Greenway that was paid by the United States Taxpayers in almost 20 Billion dollars in cost. A little selfish if you ask me.

Because they own it.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

If Chiofaro retained and built on top of the existing garage, then, IMO, the 50 percent general rule would not apply. But that's not what he is proposing. It wasn't the city or the HT residents who hung the huge banner along the Atlantic Ave facade of the garage saying 'Open to the Sea'.

I think the example you are looking for is Lovejoy. One existing building retained, one building demolished. Constructed a publicly accessible pier/quay with a footprint larger than the footprint of the demolished building.

Thanks -- Lovejoy is a great example.

So question, if Chiofaro could get access to the public land between the garage and the water, could he expand out into the water more to "create" his 50% open space (since piers and quays seem to count)?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Because they own it.

Chiofaro owns the garage. They want to dictate on how this development is so bad for them but not good for the public.

Chiofaro project is great for the Taxpayers of Mass.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Chiofaro owns the garage. They want to dictate on how this development is so bad for them but not good for the public.

Chiofaro project is great for the Taxpayers of Mass.

It makes no difference what's good for the taxpayers. Chiofaro's development is occurring after the laws were put in place, ergo the laws govern him but do not govern them.

I am curious how many restrictions the city could hit the HT with about that outdoor space. Sure they can have it, but can they change it? Could the city ban them from ever replacing a failed section of fence? Could the city prevent them from bringing deck chairs back outside after the winter? Could they prevent landscaping?

There's a lot of dickish things you can do to grandfathered properties. Similarly, I wonder if Chiofaro has some in mind to get them to let him move their spaces underground before 2022.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Laws are adjusted everyday if it benefits society. The reality to Chiofaro's project has 3 things going for it.

#1 Knock the Garage Down (It does not benefit nobody but Harbor Tower Residents)
#2 The Garage was zoned in the past for 3rd 400Ft Harbor Tower in the past. Another 200Ft is not going to make a difference
#3 Chap 91 is Bullshit. Especially when the citizens of Mass already face a giant wall of cement on this site.

The rules and regulations that the BRA and State politicians have created have been changed through every specific development when Mayor Menino was running the show.

Bottom Line: Chiofaro project is great for the taxpayers of this state especially since we spent 20 Billion on the Big Dig and the Greenway.

It seems that this developer actually cares what will happen to the Greenway since he has the most stake on it. Isn't he still one of the original building owners not to sellout to a hedge fund or a major corporation?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Chiofaro is going to replace a waterfront garage with world class architecture. He also is going to throw money at everything within 100 feet of his site, and pay to fix up the aquarium station, greenway, harbor walk, create a new public space in a spot where there is none, and add housing and offices to the city. What is the problem here?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Thanks -- Lovejoy is a great example.

So question, if Chiofaro could get access to the public land between the garage and the water, could he expand out into the water more to "create" his 50% open space (since piers and quays seem to count)?

Very likely not. The submerged land east of the narrow strip east of East India Row is not owned by him, and its exact ownership is unclear. It would depend if historically there was a wharf in that location. If that were the case, the submerged land is likely owned by the BRA. If there was no historic wharf, then the submerged land is likely owned by the Commonwealth.

Assuming either the BRA or the Commonwealth was amenable to his building the stairs to the sea and the tidal pool, the Corps of Engineers would ultimately decide whether he could do so, and the odds of their approving this feature are between slim and none.
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If one goes back through the long and now-becoming-painful history of his efforts to develop this site, his approach has consistently been one of teasing with eye candy renderings, and being woefully short of specifics. In his initial PNF for the arched towers (which was skimpy to the extreme) the BRA responded with a long set of questions they asked him to answer, to fill in the gaps, so to speak. One question was, how did he intend to address the property interests of the HT residents in the garage itself, with respect to their utilities infrastructure, and their easements for parking?

In the intervening years, I've not seen any information produced that responds to those questions.

Similarly, when the FAA said 407 feet was as high as he could go, did he adjust the height, or did he engage in discussions with the FAA on whether there were alternatives that might allow him to exceed that cap. Not that I can tell. (Link below is nearly five years old.)
http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2009/10/26/daily55.html?jst=m_ln_hl&surround=lfn

All we get is more renderings. He unveiled iteration 2 without talking to the Aquarium, and created this great square/meeting place by taking ownership of land he didn't own. Iteration 3 featured a beach extravaganza. That seems to have been washed out into the harbor.

And the latest iteration has a feature, the stairs to the sea, that is unlikely to be approved and is on land he doesn't own. (See also iteration 2.)

What is so friggin' difficult at this stage about producing a straightforward site plan? Or would a simple site plan simply raise more questions than it answers. Where is the garage entrance and exit? Where are the loading docks? Where is the hotel entrance? Is there going to be a taxi stand? What site-related measures will be used to reduce/eliminate effects of sea level rise / storm surge?
http://www.bostonredevelopmentautho...es/climate-change-preparedness-and-resiliency

His odyssey with his double tower design reminds me of Coleridge, who began Kubla Khan in an opium dream, and when he woke, couldn't remember most of what he wrote in his mind, but assured everybody it would have been the greatest poem ever.

If Chiofaro kept the current garage, reclad it with spiffy material, used it as a podium, built 35 stories on top, with a 50,000 sq ft floorplate, he gets 1.75 million gross sq ft of new building (450,000 sq ft more than what he presently proposes) with none of the cost of excavating deep into primordial muck for a new garage, he stays within the FAA limit, and he avoids the 50 percent open space requirement. But maybe he likes the conflict, and controversy, and pushing people's buttons, or maybe he took too many hits as a very undersized but very good Harvard linebacker.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Chiofaro is going to replace a waterfront garage with world class architecture. He also is going to throw money at everything within 100 feet of his site, and pay to fix up the aquarium station, greenway, harbor walk, create a new public space in a spot where there is none, and add housing and offices to the city. What is the problem here?

600 feet of pumpkin terracotta is not world class architecture. In fact its a cheap solution, compared to some alternatives.

Richard Friedman is spending about $1,000 a sq ft to build the Four Seasons hotel and residences, and that is not a world-class building. Chiofaro's construction costs look to be about half of what Friedman is spending. There are college dorms that cost that much on a sq ft basis. Fogg's renovation/expansion cost $1,750 a sq ft and Piano can rightly be called a starchitect.
 
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