[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The way the model looks--I would say start building tomorrow.

Nothing wrong with this development by model standard.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

pel_north said:
Rx8w5jm.jpg


Here is what I found at lunch. :)
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Next time you walk by this can you snap a few other angles? We know these look great from this angle, but that rendering released this week was much less flattering.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

HenryAlan said:
Precisely this, and it is the heart of my objection to the third party model. The cladding makes a tremendous difference in how the width is perceived. I can appreciate that it's just a massing study, but to be accurate,each building should show a different color.
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I agree completely. From a distance and up close this is going to look like what it in fact is 2 buildings, not one massive blob.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I will try to actually get into the room. I was just on a time crunch and wasn't able to deal with security and all that in time.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Could the developer just add the underground parking before any-type of development gets approved?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
Bank Financing--if your adding more Parking wouldn't that mean more revenue help pay the restructured bank note?

Wouldn't a bank finance this?
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No

You have a perfectly serviceable garage. And because of the parking freeze you can't add any additional parking. Why would a bank finance spending a ton of money to end up with the same exact thing that was there before, a garage with X number of spots? For that matter why would any sane developer do that? To spend a ton of money for no gain?

Not only that, if you go ahead with that plan, you could get some NIMBY crowd going that would want to put a park instead of a profitable tower on top of your garage now. So why would a developer ever want to do it?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^^^^

Mongo,

Pefectly serviceable Garage--
Add more spaces (would create more money)

The solution would be
The developer would be burying the garage as the garage is still serviceable- while going through the Approval process for development.
The Garage would have XX number of spots which could possibly double the amount of income for the investors also prepping him for the future development.

Just curious if you could do this scenario?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

You're missing the part about not being able to add more parking spots due to the parking freeze. You'd be replacing them spot for spot, not adding income, just moving it at cost. So negative cash flow.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
^^^^

Mongo,

Pefectly serviceable Garage--
Add more spaces (would create more money)

The solution would be
The developer would be burying the garage as the garage is still serviceable- while going through the Approval process for development.
The Garage would have XX number of spots which could possibly double the amount of income for the investors also prepping him for the future development.

Just curious if you could do this scenario?
Click to expand...

So assuming you can get around the parking freeze (which you can't) You are suggesting undermining the current garage's foundation and building a garage under it? Not tearing it down and building a garage underground? Do you understand how expensive and difficult that would be?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Mongo said:
So assuming you can get around the parking freeze (which you can't) You are suggesting undermining the current garage's foundation and building a garage under it? Not tearing it down and building a garage underground? Do you understand how expensive and difficult that would be?
Click to expand...

Yes... For example 1200 current spaces to 2400 with also building the foundation to the future development. Since the end game is to build it out for a future development. I don't know how expensive it is I was wondering if the economics could work. Kill two birds with one stone
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
Yes... For example 1200 current spaces to 2400 with also building the foundation to the future development. Since the end game is to build it out for a future development. I don't know how expensive it is I was wondering if the economics could work. Kill two birds with one stone
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But you can't do that.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

coleslaw said:
But you can't do that.
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Why not---If the economics works for the developer why couldn't he do this?

I'm not a structural engineer or understand how the parking garage financing industry works. But if the economics works for the developer why couldn't he build the foundation and bury the garage? Does he need sometype of permits? ---

If there is such a shortage of parking why is there a parking freeze in the city? Is that the only way these leaders can generate revenue is handout parking tickets in a city and state that the taxpayers own.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
Why not---If the economics works for the developer why couldn't he do this?

I'm not a structural engineer or understand how the parking garage financing industry works. But if the economics works for the developer why couldn't he build the foundation and bury the garage? Does he need sometype of permits? ---T
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Of course he would need permits. In addition, even though I've said it twice, there is a parking freeze.

Go here to read about it.

The pertinent part is:

As of December 31, 2013 there are no spaces in the parking freeze bank, which can be allocated to new facilities.
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So it would be impossible for him to get 1,200 additional spaces without buying and ripping them down somewhere else downtown.

And without the additional spaces it makes 0 sense. Even with the additional spaces, I doubt it makes financial sense. But again, there is no way he can put additional parking spaces here.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
Why not---If the economics works for the developer why couldn't he do this?

I'm not a structural engineer or understand how the parking garage financing industry works. But if the economics works for the developer why couldn't he build the foundation and bury the garage? Does he need sometype of permits? ---

If there is such a shortage of parking why is there a parking freeze in the city? Is that the only way these leaders can generate revenue is handout parking tickets in a city and state that the taxpayers own.
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The parking freeze is to reduce traffic and pollution. The shortage of parking is intentional. The purpose is to get fewer people to drive.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

fattony said:
The parking freeze is to reduce traffic and pollution. The shortage of parking is intentional. The purpose is to get fewer people to drive.
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Then wouldn't it make more sense to Build a massive upgradeable Hardrails throughout the city that are clean and efficient?

The Orange, Red and Blue are like riding in Trash-cans these days--They were efficient in the 80's but they have failed to keep up with times like our leaders have bankrupted the T through the pension spree.

I agree with parking freeze the only problem now is there is no more accessible or extra parking since all the parking lots in Seaport are getting developed.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
Then wouldn't it make more sense to Build a massive upgradeable Hardrails throughout the city that are clean and efficient?

The Orange, Red and Blue are like riding in Trash-cans these days--They were efficient in the 80's but they have failed to keep up with times like our leaders have bankrupted the T through the pension spree.

I agree with parking freeze the only problem now is there is no more accessible or extra parking since all the parking lots in Seaport are getting developed.
Click to expand...

No more accessible parking is good not bad. People will want to drive less and want more alternative methods of transportation. It also raises prices and therefore money for the city. We need a massive renovation and expansion of the MBTA but this can lead to that.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I think Chiofaro said it would cost $75 million construction costs to build an underground garage at Harbor Towers with 1400/1450 spaces. Because you are digging deeper, right next to the Harbor, the hydrostatic loads increase, and it might cost another $75 million for an additional 1,000 spaces.

Underground parking costs, of the high side, $50,000 per space. 2400 spaces = $120 million, so an additional $30 million because of the harbor site.

$150,000,000 financed at 4.75 percents for 20 years costs $970,000 a month (principal and interest.) Every space in the garage would have to generate $13.50 in gross receipts daily simply for the financing costs. Add to that taxes, insurances, operating costs, maintenance, etc, Chiofaro would be in debtor's prison before the year was out.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The parking lots in the seaport are all being maintained space for space below grade. There will just seem like fewer, with all the new people working there now.

I get totally crossed up reading you from time to time. You want a better T, yet you choose to drive everywhere, because the T isn't up to your standards.

So you expect the T to be able to upgrade without you and others like you not paying into it. You'll start riding it again when it magically gets better from unknown funds?

I have no idea how it's slow. It's basically 15 minutes door to door for me on the Red Line from Kendall to South Station. Then I get on the 5:12 train, and am in my house before 6:00 in Brockton.

In the morning it's even better. I leave my house at about 6:05, and in my office by about 7:10. Just about 1 hour door to door. No way you can do those times in a car at those times of day.
 
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