[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^^Exactly. Every building has a bad angle and to single out this project is unfair. Heck, the Millennium Tower looks fat from this angle (easily the widest building in the shot) but you won't see people outraged about it. And don't even get me started on Congress St Garage Development (amazing design but it does have a few less than perfect angles)

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Point is, Thrush was paid by the HT Trust. He works for him and obviously he is going to conduct his study with bias towards helping the HT Trust.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Thrush is basically saying he is not against the height he just doesn't like Chiofaro's height. LOL.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

"BRA Unveils Alternative Harbor Garage Proposals" via
http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2014/11/20/boston-harbor-garage-project-waterfront-building-alternative-proposals-presentation-renderings/


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I skimmed through this and I'm not entirely sure what to make of it. I understand what the goal is, but it would have been nice, and more productive, if they landed on a preferred alternative at the end. I think the single west tower alternative would be best, it appears to have the least shadow impact on the public realm. If they give Chiofaro a preferred alternative, then that would give him at least some direction to move forward and start working towards a compromise.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/247312503/Downtown-Waterfront-MHPAC-Meeting-No-20-PowerPoint-Presentation-11-19-14
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

not sure if I'm just not as educated as most people on this board. But does anybody actually understand this alternative scenarios?

I believe this shadow scenario is getting taken a little too far. This is the city of Boston not Malden Ma
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Holy crap is that misleading. By putting shadows from all different times of day on a single slide, they make it look like the whole of Long Wharf would be permanently doomed to darkness, not a sliver of it that slowly moves during the most ideal day of the year for shadows.

We've done the shadow study idiocy to death on AB before, but it's disappointing to see the BRA so obviously playing into it.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Personally, I think the 2010 Greenway study should be thrown out. Like Thrush's "study," the study was conducted with a personal vendetta against Chiofaro.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

KentXie said:
Personally, I think the 2010 Greenway study should be thrown out. Like Thrush's "study," the study was conducted with a personal vendetta against Chiofaro.
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The 2010 Study was for the entire Greenway, and Chiofaro hasn't yet made a serious proposal. He has no funding, he has no resolution for the FAA, and he has no resolution for the ownership stake.

If they had an opinion that there shouldn't be height on the site, fine. That's a valid opinion. Chiofaro has done nothing to date to earn anyone's respect, vendetta or no. No reason to throw out a neighborhood-wide study because it doesn't show him any.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The shadow studies for Long Wharf are being done because Chapter 91 could preclude any new building that casts a shadow on Long Wharf from being built. Long Wharf is the key concern, the Aquarium 'porch' (plaza entrance) is a secondary concern, and shadow impact on the Greenway is not a concern.

The alternatives were prepared by BRA to be consistent with Chapter 91 requirements.

...must specify alternative height limits and other requirements that ensure that, in general, new or expanded buildings for nonwater-dependent use will be relatively modest in size, in order that wind, shadow and other conditions of the ground level environment will be conducive to water-dependent activity and public access associated therewith, as appropriate for the harbor in question
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emphasis mine.

Chapter 91 allows Chiofaro 150 feet for his building, more or less. Chapter 91 also specifies 50 percent open space, and his most recent proposal in the view of BRA and its consultant provided zero open space.

The alternatives are merely looking at how high above 150 feet Chiofaro would be allowed to go, i.e., exceeding the "in general" limits. The different positionings of the mass are an attempt to reduce shadow and gain open space.

The FAA constraint was not factored.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Equilibria said:
The 2010 Study was for the entire Greenway, and Chiofaro hasn't yet made a serious proposal. He has no funding, he has no resolution for the FAA, and he has no resolution for the ownership stake.

If they had an opinion that there shouldn't be height on the site, fine. That's a valid opinion. Chiofaro has done nothing to date to earn anyone's respect, vendetta or no. No reason to throw out a neighborhood-wide study because it doesn't show him any.
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You don't need to have a serious proposal. The whole study was an pre-emptive strike sparked by the idea that Chiofaro was planning to propose a tall tower along the Greenway. He may not have earned your respect, or the former mayor's respect, but the fact remains the Menino, RIP, hand picked his developers and those he disliked, well he needed legal justification to stop it, hence hid it within the Greenway study. That's plain corruption. And it's suspicious that the same person tried to force feed the city a 1000 ft tower in downtown, knowing that it would cast significant shadows on the Common and then make the same complaint on Chiofaro's project after his "grand project" was shot down. Don't forget, 111 Winthrop had no funding and no resolution for the FAA either, and if I remember correctly, none of y'all made any complaints.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Chiofaro is certainly persistent, but also either deaf to what he hears, or blind to what is written.

In an effort to provide pedestrian access from the Greenway to the water's edge, the current project design features a glass-enclosed indoor promenade open to the public but constituting a physical barrier. [A] Glass enclosure does not meet the standard of open-air, pedestrian access between the Greenway and the waterfront. To put it plainly, the ability of the public to look through, or walk through, the glass-enclosed lobby of a private building does not constitute a direct connection between the Greenway and the waterfront.
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July 17, 2009
Ian A. Bowles
Secretary, Executive Office of Energy and Environmental Affairs
Commonwealth of Massachusetts

For all the reported Menino-Chiofaro 'feuding', the city is but a bystander, and the fate of Chiofaro's project ultimately will be decided by the Commonwealth. (That's not the case of other projects which Menino supposedly favored or didn't, where, by and large, the city got to call the shots.)

And let's not forget that Menino passed on the opportunity for the city to own the Greenway, supposedly because the city could not afford to maintain it. (Menino's legacy with respect to city parkland is a small one.)
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Quote:
In an effort to provide pedestrian access from the Greenway to the water's edge, the current project design features a glass-enclosed indoor promenade open to the public but constituting a physical barrier. [A] Glass enclosure does not meet the standard of open-air, pedestrian access between the Greenway and the waterfront. To put it plainly, the ability of the public to look through, or walk through, the glass-enclosed lobby of a private building does not constitute a direct connection between the Greenway and the waterfront.
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Yeah the Garage is such a better option for the Greenway-
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Does anyone know how long the garage's useful lifespan is? It was built in the 70's and will not last forever. Road salt for ice melt that has been tracked into the garage will eventually corrode and damage the concrete structure.

I would love to see the garage replaced by something better but per Chiofaro there is no financial incentive to tear down a 1400-spot parking garage...however, eventually the garage will need extensive repairs or even replacement. When that time comes, whoever owns the property will be faced with the option of rehabilitating the parking garage ($$) or building something else entirely ($$$). Chiofaro's THIS (towers) or THAT (the existing garage) argument loses some of its legitimacy and we may end up with something smaller/more appropriate for the waterfront.

I guess I'm mostly worried that our impatience to replace the garage in the short term will doom us to a 600' tower on the waterfront for the next ~100 years. Remember, skyscrapers are generally built to last longer than parking garages and once they go up, are likely to stay up.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^^^^ Ouch! 60 grit cosbied.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Thinkbiggerboston sounds like a harbor tower resident.... road salt off cars? What are you even talking about?
 
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

What's your agenda here stellar? I've read your posts for years and this seems highly inconsistent. It's as if someone's hijacked your profile for this one development.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Seriously Salt? Who gives a shit about Salt and concrete concerning the Garages.

Stellar seriously Chiofaro hasn't done one thing wrong but propose a couple of towers on a concrete POS Garage to build with his own risk. He has not taken any taxpayers money like all the other developments. Liberty Mutual, Fan Pier, Morgan Stanly, but you continue to harp on this guy but don't mention a word about the other ways these buildings get developed through the corruption of the menino regime.

Bottom Line: People like Chiofaro Create real jobs---If a politician could create jobs they would not be a politicians.

Menino and the BRA in my eyes are nothing more than Criminals.
I'm not saying Chiofaro has the right idea for the garage but its his vision and he should have the opportunity to make the area better.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I don't want to get way of topic here with the road salt BS but there is the whole atlantic ocean thing sitting next to the garage so that might pose a problem as well. Bottom line, it's a petty argument.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

And why the name "thinkbiggerboston"? Sounds like the opposite of what you're for.
 
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