[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

It would be nice to see Boston have some-type of Macy's day Thanksgiving Parade down the Greenway--

Happy Thanksgiving

We would probably have to ask Harbor Tower residents if it's okay since they own the Greenway.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Its quite likely the note holder who has financed and re-financed the garage purchase has imposed conditions that Chiofaro maintain the garage in a state of good repair. (The note holder is not Prudential REIT; in fact, it seems that Prudential has limited its financial exposure with respect to the purchase of the garage.) Failure by Chiofaro to do so could result in default/foreclosure.

And then there is the matter of the HT easements, the one for the HT parking spaces is set to end in 2022 (when Chiofaro will be 76 years old). One would have to read the language of the easement to determine if there are provisions that provide for a new easement, or any remaining property interest after that date. If there are none, the fact that the current parking easements expire in eight years steadily diminishes their value to HT owners when it comes to sale/re-sale of their units.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Its quite likely the note holder who has financed and re-financed the garage purchase has imposed conditions that Chiofaro maintain the garage in a state of good repair. (The note holder is not Prudential REIT; in fact, it seems that Prudential has limited its financial exposure with respect to the purchase of the garage.) Failure by Chiofaro to do so could result in default/foreclosure.

And then there is the matter of the HT easements, the one for the HT parking spaces is set to end in 2022 (when Chiofaro will be 76 years old). One would have to read the language of the easement to determine if there are provisions that provide for a new easement, or any remaining property interest after that date. If there are none, the fact that the current parking easements expire in eight years steadily diminishes their value to HT owners when it comes to sale/re-sale of their units.

Stel -- I really don't think that any of the above discussion matters

What we have currently is an interregnum -- the old King Tom is dead -- King Mahty I is still feeling-out the dimension of his realm -- of note the recent firings

Don needs to bide his time -- as soon he'll have a real chance to pitch the Harbor Garage using the Unions as his biggest lever

By this time next year or perhaps a bit sooner King Mahty be ready to start stamping things MW

If Don's done nothing in his past or present to get on MW's bad side -- then he'll have his chance
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

And then there is the matter of the HT easements, the one for the HT parking spaces is set to end in 2022 (when Chiofaro will be 76 years old). One would have to read the language of the easement to determine if there are provisions that provide for a new easement, or any remaining property interest after that date. If there are none, the fact that the current parking easements expire in eight years steadily diminishes their value to HT owners when it comes to sale/re-sale of their units.


So Stellar your saying that when the easement have expired the value of the garage will devalue? You clearly don't have an understanding of the economics of parking in the city----Supply is completely drying up especially with the Seaport being built up.

Parking in Boston could be heading for $100 a day in the not so distant future.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

So Stellar your saying that when the easement have expired the value of the garage will devalue? You clearly don't have an understanding of the economics of parking in the city----Supply is completely drying up especially with the Seaport being built up.

Parking in Boston could be heading for $100 a day in the not so distant future.
No, I didn't say that at all. I said that when the easement no longer exists, the residents of HT will lose the value of that easement (the 'reserved' parking spaces in the garage) when they calculate the value of their property. The residents have marketed and sold their units as having dedicated parking space in the garage. (The individual units don't have assigned spaces, the spaces are held in common by the trustees of HT.)

The original easement (from 1969) set out an expiration date of February 2022, subject to possible extensions. The easement was subsequently amended in 1981, (and possibly again later, but the 1981 amendment(s) is referenced in the master deed for HT II). Based on the number of spaces set out in the master deed for HT II, there are over 600 spaces for both HT I and HT II.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

So Stellar your saying that when the easement have expired the value of the garage will devalue? You clearly don't have an understanding of the economics of parking in the city----Supply is completely drying up especially with the Seaport being built up.

Parking in Boston could be heading for $100 a day in the not so distant future.

Stellar already covered this, but I feel it's important to really emphasize that you are off by about 180 degrees. What is the greater value to an owner, a condo with deeded parking? Or that same condo with no parking?

Of course, here is why should be enough leverage for Chioforo to get the HT owners in bed with him.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Also, the fact that the Congress street garage regularly is well below maximum capacity, should show that parking in this area is not 'drying up'. Parking can be had by those who need it, and are willing to pay for it.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

no new news but saw these in NYC this weekend look familiar?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Paul McMorrow column in the globe:


EVER SINCE Don Chiofaro rolled out his first plan for leveling the Harbor Garage, which sits along Boston Harbor between Long Wharf and Rowes Wharf, the tug-of-war over the garage’s future has centered on the height of the buildings Chiofaro wanted to build. But recently, the controversy has quietly fallen away. Chiofaro’s proposed project has become one that will be decided on the ground floor, by competing visions of what open space along the harbor’s edge should look like. This is an amazing turn of events, and, strangely, it’s happened without anyone actually coming out and saying so.

The Harbor Garage is one of Boston’s most hated buildings. The block-long monstrosity seals off the Rose Kennedy Greenway from the city’s waterfront. But Chiofaro has been spinning his wheels since he proposed replacing the garage with a huge two-tower complex in 2009. The buildings Chiofaro proposed were at least three times as tall as what Boston officials said they’d allow.

Chiofaro unveiled his latest proposal for the Harbor Garage site in June, and it sounded familiar: He pitched two mixed-use towers, with the taller of the two topping out at around 600 feet. But Chiofaro completely re-imagined how the buildings would meet the streets below. He carved a wide avenue between two towers. He pitched the new space as an outdoor living room, open to the air in good weather, but enclosed by a retractable glass roof in bad weather. One rendering Chiofaro released depicted an indoor skating rink sitting between the two towers, as snowflakes fell on the Greenway outside.

That rink, and not the towers that would surround it, has unexpectedly become the major flashpoint at the Harbor Garage site.

A few months ago, the trustees of Harbor Towers, the 400-foot-tall condominium complex next door to the Harbor Garage, hired George Thrush, a prominent local architect, to critique Chiofaro’s redevelopment proposal. Thrush argued that Chiofaro’s proposal would cut off the downtown from the harbor, and said Chiofaro wasn’t creating meaningful connections to the water. Thrush said it would make more sense to replace the garage with a single tower, shrink the building’s footprint, and open up public space along Milk Street and the harbor’s edge.

Then, weeks ago, a consultant for the Boston Redevelopment Authority released a document that also reimagined the ground floor of Chiofaro’s proposed tower. The BRA report found that Chiofaro’s two-tower proposal would cast shadows on neighboring Long Wharf, but those shadows could mostly be eliminated by shifting the dimensions of Chiofaro’s development.

There’s a lot of common ground between the Thrush mockups and the ones the BRA aired: They would both replace Chiofaro’s garage with one tower, set back from Long Wharf and the Aquarium, and creating lots of new public space next to the harbor, along Milk Street. They both place open space along the side of Chiofaro’s development, instead of down the middle of it. And they both entertain the possibility of the site’s single tower rising to at least 600 feet tall.

A possible skating rink space, and not the towers that would surround it, has unexpectedly become the major flashpoint at the site.

This should be a lightning clap in the battle over the Harbor Garage. City Hall and Harbor Towers have both essentially conceded the height battle to Chiofaro.

But they’ve also opened up an intriguing new front at the ground floor, one that centers around the question of what kind of public space Chiofaro’s project should create.

The BRA’s alternatives are all about protecting Long Wharf. They would keep more sun on the wharf by pushing one tall Chiofaro-built tower away from the wharf. But Chiofaro would open up the middle of the garage site, instead of one side, to create his year-round indoor-outdoor living room.

This is the last great question that will shape the Harbor Garage site. Saying that Long Wharf is paramount pushes the garage site design in one direction, and choosing a more flexible, year-round, programmed public space pushes it in another. Should this site, at the heart of the downtown waterfront, be open year-round, but remain more private in character? Or is it better for it to become a less formal, open-air, more truly public, but seasonal open space? This split has emerged organically, and quietly. But now that it’s here, it needs to be addressed head-on.

source: http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...mmon-ground/agudJYLrHoYtucZzfpbg3K/story.html
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

One Single Tower 600ft? open Ground Floor Ice Skating rink, Needs to bury the entire Garage below ground:

How is the developer supposed to make any money on this deal without the massing?
This is too risky if you ask me.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Woo. More open space, next to the open greenway, next to the open harbor. Couple that with a single slim tower not being able to recoup the costs of buying the garage plus burying the whole thing, means all this is a non starter.

If they want so much open space along milk street and the harbor, how about a land swap. Give Don some greenway to develop in exchange for open space at the harbor. Too much open space in this area will not add any 'vibrancy' .
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I agree. In addition to the green way there is already a park along milk st leading to the aquarium and the harbor towers are surrounded by park like green space (albeit private). The irony is that open space between the towers as proposed by the developer would open views to the water. Removing the tower nearest long wharf opens the view to the blank wall of the imax theater building.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

How much height would the FAA allow here? A possible solution might be a tower taller than 600 feet to recoup some of the floor area lost by eliminating the second tower. Presumably the single tower would not be particularly slim for the same reason.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The armchair architects seem to be forgetting that the view of the harbor/bay/ocean is only possible through the middle of the garage! This wasn't an accident from everything I've read.

I know I'd rather see Boston Harbor from the Greenway than the side of the IMAX tumor.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

How much height would the FAA allow here? A possible solution might be a tower taller than 600 feet to recoup some of the floor area lost by eliminating the second tower. Presumably the single tower would not be particularly slim for the same reason.

DW -- 600' is about all you can imagine from the FAA so that's a non-starter

However, build part of the garage into the tower and market the 600' tower as having the best view in Boston -- high-end condos -- could be a winner -- perhaps a boutique hotel in the middle

essentially 600' could translate into a 60 floor tower:

-50 to 0 -- 4 floors of underground parking & support facilities -- extending out from the ground floor building footprint into the public plaza
0 -- Public Plaza with glass movable wall / roof "4 season room" attached to the building
0 to 60' -- 4 floor -- 2 stepped retail podium -- ground floor ceiling at 20' to blend into the glass 4 season room
60 to 120 -- 5 floors of above ground fully automated parking
120 to 144 -- 2 floor hotel lobby + function rooms
144 to 250 -- 10 floor boutique hotel rooms -- 10 per floor
250 to 270 -- 2 floor hotel penthouse level
270 to 450 -- 20 floors of lower cost condos / apartments
450 to 600 -- 15 floors of top-end condos
600 to 614 -- top of the top -- $50 M penthouse ala Millenium
614 to 650 -- mechanical and roof



built like Millenium poured in place concrete
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The FAA Map is here:
https://www.massport.com/media/11778/BOS_COMPOSITE_Ver2pt0_dec201_small.pdf

And you'll see that the site is very close to where the height drops rapidly. Technically it is between the 600' and 625' contours (so 600' "by the map"), but it is very close to an area falling between the 250' and 275' contours.

The FAA (and anyone hiding behind it for legal-political cover) is probably free to pick any number between 400' and 625', or they say between Harbor Towers' height (407') and 600' and make it stick.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The FAA map is for one engine out aircraft, where a building/structure over a certain height is deemed a hazard to a plane climbing with one engine out..

The FAA states 407' is the limit for any tower at the Harbor Garage.

http://www.boston.com/realestate/ne...skyscrapers_poses_hazard_to_flights_faa_says/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/27/AR2007122702154.html

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2009/10/26/daily55.html

The Harbor Garage is approximately 58,000 sq ft. The armchair developers can calculate how many gross square feet of building one can build to fit within the two parameters: 407' feet high and a 58,000 sq ft footprint.

With the gross square feet, then calculate how much net rentable square / sellable square feet he would have, and with that value, multiply by a sales price per square foot for the sellable space, and a lease price per square foot for rentabled space. You can make your own assumption for dividing up the sellable space (condos) and the rentable space (offices). See what price you come up with, and compare that to Chiofaro's estimate of the cost.

That's a 15 minute calculation, albeit a very crude one.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Then the city is stuck with the garage. No money to be made from it but parking.
 
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