[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

[stellarfun]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

For reference, the Intercontinental is 865,000 sq ft of hotel and residences. (I assume that does not count the vent shaft, but may count the garage.)

 

[tobyjug]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Does anyone know whether the 900k allowance is gross or net?

 

[stellarfun]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Does anyone know whether the 900k allowance is gross or net?

I would expect it would be GSF, above grade. Which is what is used in the FAR, Assuming its GSF, and if they were to count a buried garage, that would be an additionasl 400,000+ GSF.

Chiofaro never included an underground garage in his 1.5 million GSF / 1.3 million GSF iterations. His argument at the time he cut the project to 1.3 million GSF, was that he couldn't build fewer sq ft, and still make the project economical [he was predicating a 1,400 space buried garage was part of the project]

Essentially, what the BRA has done is cut Chofaro's minimum size demand by 30 percent.

(The numbers for the Intercontinental were from Elkus, thus my uncertainty as to what was being counted, given that the lot contains a large vent shaft and the excavation of the entire site was done by the Big Dig.)

 

[fattony]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I still can't help but think he should try and do a land swap with the city. Move City Hall to this site eventually and let him have the development rights for City Hall. It's win-win-win. Boston gets a new city hall. We get rid of the disgusting mess that is the current city hall. Chiofaro get's to build whatever he wants and everyone gets to stick it to the Harbor Tower residents who probably don't want anybody near their precious concrete towers...

Actually, a civic building right on the harbor, front and center in downtown skyline photos could be pretty amazing. Biggest problem is the economics of the garage. No one actually wants the garage to disappear and the city would have to eat the cost of burying it without building a tower to recoup the costs.

Unless you mean for city hall to be in a large tower that rents out extra space as commercial office or residential. I have a hard time seeing that happen.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Actually, a civic building right on the harbor, front and center in downtown skyline photos could be pretty amazing. Biggest problem is the economics of the garage. No one actually wants the garage to disappear and the city would have to eat the cost of burying it without building a tower to recoup the costs.

Unless you mean for city hall to be in a large tower that rents out extra space as commercial office or residential. I have a hard time seeing that happen.

Hummmm.... why couldn't City Hall be a large tower?

 

[bobthebuilder]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Hummmm.... why couldn't City Hall be a large tower?

It could if they let a private developer build it and lease space for the city hall functions, like walsh proposed during his campaign.

 

[393b40]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Unless you mean for city hall to be in a large tower that rents out extra space as commercial office or residential. I have a hard time seeing that happen.

Not a large tower. I don't have a tower fetish like some of the folks here.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I still can't help but think he should try and do a land swap with the city. Move City Hall to this site eventually and let him have the development rights for City Hall. It's win-win-win. Boston gets a new city hall. We get rid of the disgusting mess that is the current city hall. Chiofaro get's to build whatever he wants and everyone gets to stick it to the Harbor Tower residents who probably don't want anybody near their precious concrete towers...

Are you on drugs. Why would the developer want to swap sites? The garage seems like a goldmine especially what is going on with Parking in the city. There isn't any. Then move city hall to the most desired area in the city right now instead of building epic private development on this site?

The residents at Harbor Towers are starting to brainwash people into saying this building will be too tall, too fat, too whatever.

Bottom Line the Residents at Harbor Towers do not want anything built on that site. They are spoiled entitle people that could careless what is best for the city of Boston.
I think the city or the state should declare Harbor Towers pool area a hazard to the public by not allowing access from the Greenway to the harbor.

And finally building something worthy for the area. harbor towers are both 400ft tall but they continue to complain about what is being proposed. If the developer proposed a 400ft building they would still complain. They don't want any change.

 

[393b40]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Are you on drugs. Why would the developer want to swap sites? The garage seems like a goldmine especially what is going on with Parking in the city. There isn't any. Then move city hall to the most desired area in the city right now instead of building epic private development on this site?

The residents at Harbor Towers are starting to brainwash people into saying this building will be too tall, too fat, too whatever.

Bottom Line the Residents at Harbor Towers do not want anything built on that site. They are spoiled entitle people that could careless what is best for the city of Boston.
I think the city or the state should declare Harbor Towers pool area a hazard to the public by not allowing access from the Greenway to the harbor.

I'm a pragmatist not an idealist. I don't see Chiofaro ever getting his tower built here or if he does we're going to end up with an architectural turd on prime real estate due to the amount of money spent in planning.

As an armchair developer I'd much rather have the rights to City Hall. You'd be thrown a parade for just promising to tear down the eyesore that is City Hall even if you're planning to erect an 800 ft tower there to replace it.

As a resident I would much rather see prime waterfront property used for public space (even if the public space is a civic building). Also I hate City Hall and want it gone before people start seriously talking about making it a historical landmark.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I'm a pragmatist not an idealist. I don't see Chiofaro ever getting his tower built here or if he does we're going to end up with an architectural turd on prime real estate due to the amount of money spent in planning.

As an armchair developer I'd much rather have the rights to City Hall. You'd be thrown a parade for just promising to tear down the eyesore that is City Hall even if you're planning to erect an 800 ft tower there to replace it.

As a resident I would much rather see prime waterfront property used for public space (even if the public space is a civic building). Also I hate City Hall and want it gone before people start seriously talking about making it a historical landmark.

So we should relocate CITY HALL on the most prized development site in the city. Granted Chiofaro development will completely reinvent the Greenway for the Better and probably generate the entire area over 100's of Millions a year. Chiofaro has the right idea on this site.

Don't get me wrong CITY HALL does need to relocate but to an area that is easy access and that is not that desirable.

 

[617]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Land swap is no good...chiofaro should make the 900K sq ft requirement work somehow...personally I'd like to see him make the shorter tower thinner from the greenway side...I don't have the rendering but I recall that thing is a fat beast from the greenway.

Off topic i'd like to see city hall moved to ruggles across from the police station...I think they could easily sell the plaza and build a new one down there for free or even make money. It would make trips to city hall more of a pain for me personally but for the few times I ever have to go I'd rather see city hall blown up.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

So we should relocate CITY HALL on the most prized development site in the city.

LOL

Granted Chiofaro development will completely reinvent the Greenway for the Better and probably generate the entire area over 100's of Millions a year. Chiofaro has the right idea on this site.

His IP is on the Greenway and when asked, he said he gave $5,000 a year to the Greenway Conservancy. He either must not see much value in being on the Greenway, or he is cheap, or his cash flow is perilous, or all three.

As for the supposed 'gold mine' that is the garage, he keeps on re-financing his 'mortgage', and increases the amount (principal) owed. And if i"m not mistaken, the Intercontinental garage went bankrupt several years ago. They, of course, did not have the income stream from Harbor Towers residents leasing hundreds of spaces 24/7.

 

[Justin7]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^ Not valuing the Greenway Conservancy is not the same as not valuing the Greenway.

 

[dirtywater]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

You can view the presentation shown at the June 10th meeting of the Downtown Waterfront Municipal Harbor Planning Advisory Committee here.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

You can view the presentation shown at the June 10th meeting of the Downtown Waterfront Municipal Harbor Planning Advisory Committee here.

Thanks.

The real limiting factor, from a height standpoint, is basically no new shadow on Long Wharf.

 

[shmessy]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Don't get me wrong CITY HALL does need to relocate but to an area that is easy access and that is not that desirable.

Insert "Your momma" joke here.

Sorry, could resist......

 

[type001]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

So I don't mind the limiting of available space to 900,000sqf, but, ironically, that cap is thereby going to result in a wall against the greenway, which is what we want to eliminate by getting rid of the garage.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I read yesterday globe on this development:

Residents wary of plan for 600-Foot Tower:
Walsh was quoted: "I am probably sure Don would like to go taller. There's no rule book on what's too high and what's not high enough"

Is that Walsh reaching out to Chiofaro to propose more height over the 600ft?

 

[393b40]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I read yesterday globe on this development:

Residents wary of plan for 600-Foot Tower:
Walsh was quoted: "I am probably sure Don would like to go taller. There's no rule book on what's too high and what's not high enough"

Is that Walsh reaching out to Chiofaro to propose more height over the 600ft?

I'm pretty sure if Walsh wants to pass a message to Chiofaro he can do it on the phone rather playing a stupid game through the news paper.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I read yesterday globe on this development:

Residents wary of plan for 600-Foot Tower:
Walsh was quoted: "I am probably sure Don would like to go taller. There's no rule book on what's too high and what's not high enough"

Is that Walsh reaching out to Chiofaro to propose more height over the 600ft?

If you had taken the time to read (and understand) the presentation, you would discover that the BRA looked at 16 different alternatives, of varying heights, mass, position on the parcel, and use. All 16 alternatives failed to meet all the criteria which basically are three: gross floor area not to exceed 875,000 sq ft; height with mechanicals not to exceed 600', and no new shadows cast on Long Wharf.

The alternatives were basically done to illustrate limits; if you have a tower that's 400 feet with too big a footprint, then you run afoul of the 875,000 gross floor area cap, but you don't cast shadows.

(There is also a volume cap, in cubic feet.)

The BRA would also provide for 30 percent open space, not the 50 percent called for under Chapter 91. But any relief is a state decision.