[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

[SeamusMcFly]

The HT has an easement, in perpetuity, on the garage property for the HVAC equipment. If they don't allow that equipment to be moved, no new garage, no development. They have the upper hand.
.

I find this to be much less of an upper hand than you make out. They require maintained HVAC. Not the location of said equipment. Temp services, building new services in new mechanical room in development, requirements met. Especially when the new services would outstrip the subpar systems there now.

They could put up a stink regardless, but this hardly seems a guaranteed cock block.

 

[stellarfun]

I find this to be much less of an upper hand than you make out. They require maintained HVAC. Not the location of said equipment. Temp services, building new services in new mechanical room in development, requirements met. Especially when the new services would outstrip the subpar systems there now.

They could put up a stink regardless, but this hardly seems a guaranteed cock block.

As I recall the discussion of some years ago, the HVAC is physically located on the garage property, and HT is responsible for maintaining and operating the HVAC equipment. The title to the garage property is encumbered by an easement / covenant that allows the HVAC equipment to be located on the property, and gives HT a right of entry to maintain and service the equipment.

Chiofaro was willing to pay the expense of relocating the HVAC off the garage property. I can't recall what the state of the relationship was between HT and Chiofaro at that point, but I distinctly recall several posters here calling for the city to use its eminent domain power to kick HT out of the garage. (In general, you can't use eminent domain to extinguish private property rights.)

So yes, the HT residents can be foolish and obstinate, but I can show any number of properties where a property owner refused to sell, and the result is a chopped-up development.

Based on the calculation review described above, discussions with industry participants and a review of selected industry publications, it is REFS opinion that the Harbor Tower Garage project with a reduced project size version as we discussed and a projected return of 10.2% has a high
probability of obtaining funding in the current market.

http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthority.org/getattachment/55f87d3a-8660-4d6c-a57e-c91c69f1a6b0

Report of a real estate consultant to the BRA, dated June 2015, which challenges Chiofaro's assertion that he needs 1.3 million sq ft.

Chiofaro's 1.3 million sq ft development

Cost of land / new garage $290 million
Condominiums $166 million
Office $375 million
Hotel $164 million
Retail $40 million

 

[sm89]

So yes, the HT residents can be foolish and obstinate, but I can show any number of properties where a property owner refused to sell, and the result is a chopped-up development.

A recent example would be 75 Braintree St in Allston where the previous owners carved out an easement for the billboard in the middle of the lot. The building will wrap around it and can only be 4 stories tall in that area so as to not block the ads.

 

[TheRifleman]

Commonwealth is bending Chapter 91 requirements to benefit Chiofaro's project. As Chapter 91 applies throughout the Commonwealth, someone in Mashpee, or Newburyport could and would litigate about any perceived favoritism, and pointing as Exhibit #1, the rejection of the ENF.

The problem now with the Chapter 91 Requirements is the current garage blocks all access to the waterfront. The current garage goes against Chap 91 laws.
So in theory the law is biting the state in the ass because now nothing gets built and the current existing garage doing exactly what Chap 91 is about.
No open access to the water which there will not be any for a long-time.

So the Commonwealth should be bending over backwards to accommodate the developer to help create access that is not there yet.

All because of an extra 200 or 300K Square Feet.

Seriously?

 

[DZH22]

The problem now with the Chapter 91 Requirements is the current garage blocks all access to the waterfront. The current garage goes against Chap 91 laws.
So in theory the law is biting the state in the ass because now nothing gets built and the current existing garage doing exactly what Chap 91 is about.
No open access to the water which there will not be any for a long-time.

So the Commonwealth should be bending over backwards to accommodate the developer to help create access that is not there yet.

All because of an extra 200 or 300K Square Feet.

Seriously?

I agree with most of what you have to say about this project. I think you might be better served by writing a strong, comprehensive letter and sending it to every state agency, city agency, and decision maker you can think of. Instead, this thread just seems to be the same nonstop circular argument between you and stellarfun, on and on and on and on......

The other day, a light bulb went off in my head that the Volpe site would be a perfect place for an observation deck. I contacted a planning department at the city of Cambridge with my idea. If you want your ideas to be heard by the right people, this is a rather limited forum for that. It doesn't matter how loud you scream if you are facing in the wrong direction. Start reaching out, publish your letters, publish the information of anybody who responds, and you have supporters here who can follow up expressing a similar sentiment to your own.

 

[Suffolk 83]

This thread sucks. This development sucks. This developer sucks. These NIMBYS suck. These FAA regulations suck. The BRA sucks. That garage sucks. The greenway across the street kinda sucks. The aquarium sucks. Everything sucks man

 

[stellarfun]

The problem now with the Chapter 91 Requirements is the current garage blocks all access to the waterfront. The current garage goes against Chap 91 laws.

So in theory the law is biting the state in the ass because now nothing gets built and the current existing garage doing exactly what Chap 91 is about.
No open access to the water which there will not be any for a long-time.

So the Commonwealth should be bending over backwards to accommodate the developer to help create access that is not there yet.

All because of an extra 200 or 300K Square Feet.

Seriously?

I know, its terrible, the waterfront might as well be in Macau.

I can't get streetview to embed, but wander down East India Row in streetview.

 

[Cortes]

This thread sucks. This development sucks. This developer sucks. These NIMBYS suck. These FAA regulations suck. The BRA sucks. That garage sucks. The greenway across the street kinda sucks. The aquarium sucks. Everything sucks man

Love it.

 

[lapradetom]

The Chiofaro Companies/Harbor Garage Project Team is reminding us of an important meeting of the Downtown Waterfront Municipal Harbor Plan Advisory Committee meeting this Wednesday, March 9. from 3:00-5:00pm in the Piemonte Room on the 5th floor of Boston City Hall.
Quote by Chiofaro Companies on meeting agenda: "Included among the topics are the BRA's dimensional recommendations for the three development sites in the planning area, including the Harbor Garage site. As the harbor plan nears completion, it is more important than ever that voices supportive of our vision for a project combining landmark architecture with world-class public spaces are in attendance and make their opinions known. We hope to see you Wednesday." Best regards,
The Harbor Garage Project Team

This was sent out today to everyone who previously signed up for updates on the Harbor Garage Project/Chiofaro website

 

[odurandina]

Hi guys......

i've been lurking on your threads which expound your understated knowledge and amazing photography documenting the building scene around here. On the Globe construction stories i post a bit long of wind and a heavy hand to a few nimbys that lurk on the Globe pages. I put a long one up here yesterday.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/03/05/inkretail/z3jIrDy3kTlUUrpOrBH9jP/story.html

I know that style and my manner of posting on Sky/City won't fly for a minute here. I have a lot to learn. So, i'll try to keep doing that, and stay between the margins.

Can't say enough good things about this site.
.....

I got a very nice letter today from (Rob C.) one of the project managers for the Harbor Garage project. Regrettably i'm in Chicago and can't be there to bring my talking points and support for Don Chiofaro and Co.

Please attend if you can. Bring bodies. Pens, and lend your support.

Open space can be developed anytime. The BRA right now should be focusing on the above garages to be developed at all costs.
Harbor
Congress
Winthrop
I'm sure there are more.
Get rid of the Above garages first then start talking about selling city hall and redeveloping the empty space.

Harbor and Congress are game changers for the city of Boston.

You said it, brother. We really need 600 feet of steel and concrete to rise above the sunken Harbor Garage before this cycle turns sour.

Had i been able to attend, i would have brought a few copies of my thoughts on the extraordinary upside potential this project offers to Boston - to hand around:

'People don’t need to worry that the waterfront will be harmed. After the low-rise Bullfinch Triangle construction save for the Harbor Garage Tower, the entire area down here is built.

The real agenda behind the Harbor Towers’ objection to the Garage redevelopment is their 1. temporary loss of parking. 2. permanent loss of DIRECT LINE OF SIGHT to the Greenway, Custom House, Public Market, and for those living up in the higher floors, views out toward (Beacon Hill and the Esplanade).

At street level, the existing garage’s footprint is absolutely huge…. The 310’ long building is blocking nearly 100% of the view to the harbor from behind the Greenway.

Bryant Park comes to the Boston Waterfront;

To sell the project to the people of Boston, the Chiofaro/Pru Group and the BRA should do a single tower of 1.1M sq ft on a footprint of about 40% of the site…

If the tower were to be located at the northeast side of the property, the Greenway would ostensibly, expand onto the now, humongous lawn with the wide open harbor at the rear inviting visitors to the harborwalk and docks. Visibility to the harbor is horizontal. If a tower gets built 12 stories or 56 stories, at street level, the view of the waterfront and harbor running back up Milk and India Street/s will be the same: HUGE.

This is why the single tower idea works.

Then, maybe a Z-shaped walkway emphasizing a shortcut for the public to access the harbor here across nearly 200 feet of lawn... maybe a rink on one of the enclosed sections in the winter. New residents from the surrounding neighborhoods can join in ‘skating at the harborwalk.’

Regards,

Allan/Tosh33

 

[Money]

Hi guys......

i've been lurking on your threads which expound your understated knowledge and amazing photography documenting the building scene around here. On the Globe construction stories i post a bit long of wind and a heavy hand to a few nimbys that lurk on the Globe pages. I put a long one up here yesterday.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/03/05/inkretail/z3jIrDy3kTlUUrpOrBH9jP/story.html

I know that style and my manner of posting on Sky/City won't fly for a minute here. I have a lot to learn. So, i'll try to keep doing that, and stay between the margins.

Can't say enough good things about this site.
.....

I got a very nice letter today from (Rob C.) one of the project managers for the Harbor Garage project. Regrettably i'm in Chicago and can't be there to bring my talking points and support for Don Chiofaro and Co.

Please attend if you can. Bring bodies. Pens, and lend your support.



You said it, brother. We really need 600 feet of steel and concrete to rise above the sunken Harbor Garage before this cycle turns sour.

Had i been able to attend, i would have brought a few copies of my thoughts on the extraordinary upside potential for Boston this project represents - to hand around:

'People don’t need to worry that the waterfront will be harmed. After the low-rise Bullfinch Triangle construction save for the Harbor Garage Tower, the entire area down here is built.

The real agenda behind the Harbor Towers’ objection to the Garage redevelopment is their 1. temporary loss of parking. 2. permanent loss of DIRECT LINE OF SIGHT to the Greenway, Custom House, Public Market, and for those living up in the higher floors, views out toward (Beacon Hill and the Esplanade).

At street level, the existing garage’s footprint is absolutely huge…. The 310’ long building is blocking nearly 100% of the view to the harbor from behind the Greenway.

Bryant Park comes to the Boston Waterfront;

To sell the project to the people of Boston, the Chiofaro/Pru Group and the BRA should do a single tower of 1.1M sq ft on a footprint of about 40% of the site…

If the tower were to be located at the northeast side of the property, the Greenway would ostensibly, expand onto the now, humongous lawn with the wide open harbor at the rear inviting visitors to the harborwalk and docks. Visibility to the harbor is horizontal. If a tower gets built 12 stories or 56 stories, at street level, the view of the waterfront and harbor running back up Milk and India Street/s will be the same.

This is why the single tower idea works.

Then, maybe a Z-shaped walkway emphasizing a shortcut for the public to access the harbor here across nearly 200 feet of lawn... maybe a rink on one of the enclosed sections in the winter. New residents from the surrounding neighborhoods can join in ‘skating at the harborwalk.’

Regards,

Allan/Tosh33

Ahhh...the mysterious Tosh33 has revealed himself!

 

[stick n move]

I dont know who the fuck tosh33 is but welcome to the forum.

 

[JohnAKeith]

Go home Tosh33 you're drunk

 

[lapradetom]

Ahhh...the mysterious Tosh33 has revealed himself!

^Come on Don, we know this is you. It's ok! We are all for your Harbor Garage project, and we still love the great job you did with International Place. We'll all be at the meeting on Wednesday, with pitchforks in hand to boot. We will not let those Harbor Tower Nimbys have their way with you!
Signed,
Your friends at AB

 

[odurandina]

Umm, nope. I'm not Don. And i highly regret, being one of Don's most loud supporters, i can't even be at the meeting today. (i'm working in Chicago).

I sent Chris Busch (of the Downtown Waterfront Planning Initiative) an email with my contact info stating that the Harbor Garage project enjoys overwhelming support throughout the city, and the reasoning behind the Harbor Towers people being against it are bogus. Their selfish interests rank far behind sinking the garage and the broad interests of the people of Boston.

contact; Chris.Busch@Boston.gov - 617.918.4451

 

[Jouhou]

Hi guys......

i've been lurking on your threads which expound your understated knowledge and amazing photography documenting the building scene around here. On the Globe construction stories i post a bit long of wind and a heavy hand to a few nimbys that lurk on the Globe pages. I put a long one up here yesterday.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/03/05/inkretail/z3jIrDy3kTlUUrpOrBH9jP/story.html

I know that style and my manner of posting on Sky/City won't fly for a minute here. I have a lot to learn. So, i'll try to keep doing that, and stay between the margins.

Can't say enough good things about this site.
.....

I got a very nice letter today from (Rob C.) one of the project managers for the Harbor Garage project. Regrettably i'm in Chicago and can't be there to bring my talking points and support for Don Chiofaro and Co.

Please attend if you can. Bring bodies. Pens, and lend your support.



You said it, brother. We really need 600 feet of steel and concrete to rise above the sunken Harbor Garage before this cycle turns sour.

Had i been able to attend, i would have brought a few copies of my thoughts on the extraordinary upside potential this project offers to Boston - to hand around:

'People don’t need to worry that the waterfront will be harmed. After the low-rise Bullfinch Triangle construction save for the Harbor Garage Tower, the entire area down here is built.

The real agenda behind the Harbor Towers’ objection to the Garage redevelopment is their 1. temporary loss of parking. 2. permanent loss of DIRECT LINE OF SIGHT to the Greenway, Custom House, Public Market, and for those living up in the higher floors, views out toward (Beacon Hill and the Esplanade).

At street level, the existing garage’s footprint is absolutely huge…. The 310’ long building is blocking nearly 100% of the view to the harbor from behind the Greenway.

Bryant Park comes to the Boston Waterfront;

To sell the project to the people of Boston, the Chiofaro/Pru Group and the BRA should do a single tower of 1.1M sq ft on a footprint of about 40% of the site…

If the tower were to be located at the northeast side of the property, the Greenway would ostensibly, expand onto the now, humongous lawn with the wide open harbor at the rear inviting visitors to the harborwalk and docks. Visibility to the harbor is horizontal. If a tower gets built 12 stories or 56 stories, at street level, the view of the waterfront and harbor running back up Milk and India Street/s will be the same: HUGE.

This is why the single tower idea works.

Then, maybe a Z-shaped walkway emphasizing a shortcut for the public to access the harbor here across nearly 200 feet of lawn... maybe a rink on one of the enclosed sections in the winter. New residents from the surrounding neighborhoods can join in ‘skating at the harborwalk.’

Regards,

Allan/Tosh33

The commenters you are arguing with are out of touch with reality. We don't want more traffic so we want you to build in places with no transit with lots of parking spots!!!!1

 

[chrisbrat]

Umm, nope. I'm not Don. And i highly regret, being one of Don's most loud supporters, i can't even be at the meeting today. (i'm working in Chicago).

I sent Chris Busch (of the Downtown Waterfront Planning Initiative) an email with my contact info stating that the Harbor Garage project enjoys overwhelming support throughout the city, and the reasoning behind the Harbor Towers people being against it are bogus. Their selfish interests rank far behind sinking the garage and the broad interests of the people of Boston.

contact; Chris.Busch@Boston.gov - 617.918.4451

just sent an email, too!

 

[tangent]

Really hate this development. The BRA totally caved to Chiofaro and he still wants more Square footage. We are going to get a PoS tower permanently scarring the waterfront skyline and Chiofaro is going to blame the BRA for having to "cut back" on the design. No wonder Menino couldn't work with him.

 

[Suffolk 83]

Really hate this development. The BRA totally caved to Chiofaro and he still wants more Square footage. We are going to get a PoS tower permanently scarring the waterfront skyline and Chiofaro is going to blame the BRA for having to "cut back" on the design. No wonder Menino couldn't work with him.

Unless I'm missing something this hasnt gotten approved so not sure how the BRA caved to Chiofaro....

 

[odurandina]

The Garage needs to go. I wonder how much sinking 1400 parking spaces and having to deal with the HT Community/Aquarium nimby, City, State (it's the waterfront), and high $$$ labor is going to cost. It's probably +$250M. You were expecting 120 units here? If you gave Chiofaro 1.2 million sq ft tomorrow, if he pulls a miracle and the cranes come, w/ the way the economy looks in a few years, i'll be shocked if half of these projects make money. Get the permits and financing then maybe we get a pass, and something ugly doesn't happen in this cycle.