[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

[TheRifleman]

Nope, it's a brand new site, launched last week - I'm involved with the development of the website (but I do not work for Chiofaro Company).

In just the brief time that it's launched, the feedback and support numbers are truly astounding. We are doing our best to get the word out!

This is just too important of a site for all Bostonians to let it turn into another Seaport box (and I can say that because my offices are in one of those Seaport boxes!)

Mike

Mike,

Call GE--

TheRifleman

 

[citylover94]

GE is not going to be interested in that site. Not because it is a bad site but because it does not fit their new branding. The seaport/innovation district branding is "tech and biotech companies doing exciting new things are located here". That is what GE wants to broadcast and is part of the motivation for their move from suburban CT. They will not want to locate in or near the traditional finance and banking/ traditional business downtown because it doesn't fit the message they are trying to send.

 

[timsox6]

Can someone give an honest assessment of whether this news means something important is afoot?

 

[stellarfun]

Can someone give an honest assessment of whether this news means something important is afoot?

Chiofaro's now long history with the Harbor Garage is one in which he typically appeals to the public to support his latest iteration. One may recall, early on, the billboard sized sign he draped on the side of the garage, proclaiming Open to the Sea.

These promotional campaigns have been long on sizzle and short on substance. They had a populist undertone of Chiofaro, the underdog, battling against the powers at City Hall, particularly the former and now deceased Mayor.

Now, strangely, and perhaps significantly, the latest version of the website, which really contains nothing new, appears about five weeks after the Boston Globe reports that Walsh and the BRA have given up on Chiofaro, and are now dealing directly with the principal owners of the property (and of IP) Prudential.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...its-impasse/1rcE2ntCLw2NydzCg4mGvI/story.html

Walsh and the BRA over six months ago put down some markers, with respect to height and massing. Chiofaro was asked to come in with a project proposal that responded to and addressed those basic parameters. He either couldn't or wouldn't.

When one looks at the project portfolio for Chiofaro, there's IP, and then there's New England Biolabs, which he never owned, nor built, but for which he provided consulting services. And then there's Nashoba Corporate Center (an office park in Westford) bought by Chiofaro and a real estate investment fund in 1996 and sold in 2005. And then there's Westborough Technology Park, for which Chiofaro was a construction manager, but not an owner. Construction of Westborough Technology Park began nearly 30 years ago. That's it.

The experience with Chiofaro ever since he acquired the Harbor Garage is that whenever he is not getting his way, he starts another PR campaign. When obstacles are pointed out (the HT residents property interest in the existing garage) he avoids/ignores them. My opinion is that he is at an impasse with the Walsh Administration (as he was with the Menino Administration) so time to roll out another iteration, with lots of sizzle.

If Walsh and the BRA ask you to come up with a responsive proposal to their guidelines, but you don't, and instead seem intent on rolling out another PR campaign, what does that tell you?
______________________________

GE has less than zero interest in anything Chiofaro might have in mind at the Harbor Garage. If a new building, GE wants to move in before 2019. Chiofaro would be lucky to even be permitted by then.

 

[TheRifleman]

Seriously Stellarfun,

When all said and done Chiofaro built the skyline of Boston with one building.
IP is more significant than the Pru at this point.

You can say whatever you want about the developer but IP is awesome.

 

[stick n move]

International place is amazing..... to us who appreciate architecture. I dont know more than 1 maybe 2 people who know what it is. Ask a random person to name a skyscraper in Boston id bet 80% say pru 20% say hancock and nothing else.

 

[393b40]

International place is amazing..... to us who appreciate architecture. I dont know more than 1 maybe 2 people who know what it is. Ask a random person to name a skyscraper in Boston id bet 80% say pru 20% say hancock and nothing else.

Please explain why it is amazing.

 

[stick n move]

Please explain why it is amazing.

I had hoped posting that I would not drag this thread off topic so i will respond briefly and we can get back to the aquarium garage. Obviously its a personal opinion of mine but here it goes.

-The two towers staggered heights create a sloping taper up to the tip of 1IP which is the crown/focal point of downtown Boston.
-Off bronze color fits into the Boston pallette perfectly while having a clean slit of black glass to give interest to the eye.
-Round footprints draw interest to an otherwise square footprint dominated skyline.
-1Ip has a cornice that is perfectly mated to the building and tastefully lit at night
-Facade depth that is both interesting and creative with many things going on for the eye to look at
-The smaller tower takes the depth of the facade one step further to be a nice compliment for an otherwise shorter twin
-The shorter tower also has a cornice along with a pointed crown, both lit, (which I believe holds a water tank) adding more character to the otherwise shorter twin
-Built during a time where Boston was mainly cheap square shaped filing cabinet esque office towers
-When built filled in a significant gap in the skyline.
-Beautiful winter garden
-Unique, I dont know anything that looks remotely close to this when you take all of this into account

To sum that up it has a Boston color pallette, is unique, capped off a previously terrible skyline and made it actually quite nice, has a cornice, a winter garden, and is just generally regarded as a beautifully designed complex by most everyone. Essentially its just badass. It is honestly harder to find reasons why it is not amazing than why it is.

Edit: I actually thought about it and there is nothing that I don't like about IP.

I apologize I just really like this complex. This and 60 State St. are probably my two favorites in the city.

 

[Jouhou]

International place is my favorite part of the boston skyline. I also like this project as proposed so regardless of whether chiofaro can make it happen *I* want it to happen.

 

[lapradetom]

If Chiofaro was strategic, he'd take a page out of the Government Center Garage Project.

Take a look at this angle:

Cut the garage in half (width wise). Build a tower above it (with 600 feet you have plenty of room to work with) and fix the outer facade of the actual garage. Make the demolished side into his winter garden/retail and create a clear path to the water.

Everyone wins (except Harbor Towers, but who cares).

Has anyone forwarded this idea to Chiofaro? It makes sense, hypothetically and possibly in reality.

 

[stick n move]

I remember reading about that idea either on here or an article on a different website and I believe he could not do that because the number of parking spaces need to stay the same for the harbor tower assholes-hence why he says he needs to sink the entire garage-which in turn costs him a shit ton of money-which in turn means he needs to go very tall to recoup the cost of sinking the garage.

 

[KentXie]

I agree with all points made, stick. In a city abundant with unimaginative boxes, IP is a breathe of fresh air. The color scheme, the height, cylindrical shape, and palladian windows makes the complex stand out in a skyline dominated by striped, short towers and masterfully compliments the plot it stands on, which is shaped by the curved waterfront of Boston.

 

[stick n move]

I agree with all points made, stick. In a city abundant with unimaginative boxes, IP is a breathe of fresh air. The color scheme, the height, cylindrical shape, and palladian windows makes the complex stand out in a skyline dominated by striped, short towers and masterfully compliments the plot it stands on, which is shaped by the curved waterfront of Boston.

I did not even think about that last point you are absolutely correct. The way this follows the waterfront and now the greenway is pure perfection.

Back on topic the thing that kills me about this is if this was completed as rendered along with Accordia and the Govt Garage Office tower in my opinion we go from mid pack to 3d best skyline in America (when viewed from the harbor). Just look at this picture below and tell me that is not one of the best skylines you have ever seen especially with Accordia and Govt Garage office added. Hell in my very biased opinion the NYC head on waterfront is not the cities best face by any means and I think this would look better when comparing those views (yes NYC murders Boston from almost every other angle). Not to mention Chicago has a great skyline, but it is kind of messy and incoherent. We have the pieces of the puzzle laid out in front of our very eyes and actually proposed to propel Boston to her rightful place right where she belongs (one of the best cities in the world with a skyline to match) and we are most likely going to punt this into the stands by not building this and most likely millennium will build a glass box instead of Accordia.

In another note I kind of see this as the modern take on International Place-clearly inspired by. Two staggered height "twins" on the waterfront, bronze, with very similar facade lines linked by a winter garden.

 

[TheRifleman]

GE is not going to be interested in that site. Not because it is a bad site but because it does not fit their new branding. The seaport/innovation district branding is "tech and biotech companies doing exciting new things are located here". That is what GE wants to broadcast and is part of the motivation for their move from suburban CT. They will not want to locate in or near the traditional finance and banking/ traditional business downtown because it doesn't fit the message they are trying to send.

If I was GE or any other company that is exactly were I would want to be at the Heart of the Greenway where all the vibrant city action is.
Walking distance to the North End/Haymarket/Greenway/DTX area's
Blue Line/Hard Rail Access
Waterfront access
Right across is the Seaport/Innovation district.

That area is not part of DTX area in my opinion.
Harbor Garage is the best located development spot in Boston and will demand top rents both residential and commercial.

I personally would not want GE to ever occupy this spot. Hopefully we can get a unique company to make this spot flourish: Like a Facebook, or some future techie firm.

 

[lapradetom]

Has anyone forwarded this idea to Chiofaro? It makes sense, hypothetically and possibly in reality.

When you look at this picture of Harbor Towers, you can clearly see that there are actually only three sides (out of eight) of the buildings where the views are affected by any tower (s) built there. I do not know the interior layout of HT buildings, but it would seem that only about 25-30% (again, a rough estimate) of the units would be directly affected with relation to blocked views. If Chiofaro cut a deal with those affected unit owners, such as a free/permanent parking spot (?) assigned to those units in perpetuity, maybe that would appease some of the anger.

 

[lapradetom]

If Chiofaro was strategic, he'd take a page out of the Government Center Garage Project.

Take a look at this angle:

Cut the garage in half (width wise). Build a tower above it (with 600 feet you have plenty of room to work with) and fix the outer facade of the actual garage. Make the demolished side into his winter garden/retail and create a clear path to the water.

Everyone wins (except Harbor Towers, but who cares).

This picture shows only three sides (out of eight) are directly affected by "blocked views".

 

[citylover94]

If I was GE or any other company that is exactly were I would want to be at the Heart of the Greenway where all the vibrant city action is.
Walking distance to the North End/Haymarket/Greenway/DTX area's
Blue Line/Hard Rail Access
Waterfront access
Right across is the Seaport/Innovation district.

That area is not part of DTX area in my opinion.
Harbor Garage is the best located development spot in Boston and will demand top rents both residential and commercial.

I personally would not want GE to ever occupy this spot. Hopefully we can get a unique company to make this spot flourish: Like a Facebook, or some future techie firm.

A company like GE that is rebranding especially when locating a headquarters will look some at quality of the area but even more at what that location says about the company and downtown Boston says traditional business/industry and finance. That is not the message they want to send. Yes if I was CEO or whatever I would look at walkable areas but I think you are over rating the Greenways desirability. If I were looking for where to locate a business I would be looking at Back Bay/the Stuart Street Corridor- especially if I was in insurance and consulting. I would look at downtown if I was in finance, a small tech startup looking for cheaper space, or if I was in a more traditional industry. I would look at Kendall/Seaport if I was biotech or tech and already well established. Greenway area would really only apply if I was in finance. Facebook is not going to have an interest in the Greenway they are going to want to be near google, Microsoft, and the other tech companies in Cambridge.

On the other hand if I am developing housing the Harbor Garage is an amazing site and at the top of my list along with the Winthrop garage, the garage near the chinatown gateway and any potential sites in Back Bay or the Bulfinch Triangle area.

 

[TheRifleman]

International place is amazing..... to us who appreciate architecture. I dont know more than 1 maybe 2 people who know what it is. Ask a random person to name a skyscraper in Boston id bet 80% say pru 20% say hancock and nothing else.

I agree: with the name PRU VS IP
But IP is surpassing Pru in Boston Skyline Pictures.
Most people recognize IP Backdrop along with Rowes Wharf as the Boston Skyline:
Just look at Monday Night Football when it's a New England Pats Game. The network is showing the city of Boston. IP is the building they are showing more viewed than Pru in my opinion. (maybe not Red Sox games thou)

Hey Stellarfun not bad for a guy who only built one building. HAHAHA He built masterpiece.

A company like GE that is rebranding especially when locating a headquarters will look some at quality of the area but even more at what that location says about the company and downtown Boston says traditional business/industry and finance. That is not the message they want to send. Yes if I was CEO or whatever I would look at walkable areas but I think you are over rating the Greenways desirability. If I were looking for where to locate a business I would be looking at Back Bay/the Stuart Street Corridor- especially if I was in insurance and consulting. I would look at downtown if I was in finance, a small tech startup looking for cheaper space, or if I was in a more traditional industry. I would look at Kendall/Seaport if I was biotech or tech and already well established. Greenway area would really only apply if I was in finance. Facebook is not going to have an interest in the Greenway they are going to want to be near google, Microsoft, and the other tech companies in Cambridge.

On the other hand if I am developing housing the Harbor Garage is an amazing site and at the top of my list along with the Winthrop garage, the garage near the chinatown gateway and any potential sites in Back Bay or the Bulfinch Triangle area.

You could be right but the way I see it is the Greenway is more desirable than Seaport.

Your acting like the Greenway is another town away from the Seaport. Seaport is right around the corner from the Greenway.
If Harbor Garage gets developed this might transform the entire Greenway into a more San Fran Silcon Valley type area than a Insurance/Banking area.

The Heart of the Greenway will be full of LIFE and energy better than the Backbay. This will attract a major company in my opinion.

Doesn't PayPal have space in IP? The Greenway will evolve into it's own identity and distance itself from DTX overtime if developed.
#1 Waterfront/Greenway
#2 DTX Area

Great Pics of IP bye the way

 

[fattony]

A company like GE that is rebranding especially when locating a headquarters will look some at quality of the area but even more at what that location says about the company and downtown Boston says traditional business/industry and finance. That is not the message they want to send. Yes if I was CEO or whatever I would look at walkable areas but I think you are over rating the Greenways desirability. If I were looking for where to locate a business I would be looking at Back Bay/the Stuart Street Corridor- especially if I was in insurance and consulting. I would look at downtown if I was in finance, a small tech startup looking for cheaper space, or if I was in a more traditional industry. I would look at Kendall/Seaport if I was biotech or tech and already well established. Greenway area would really only apply if I was in finance. Facebook is not going to have an interest in the Greenway they are going to want to be near google, Microsoft, and the other tech companies in Cambridge.

On the other hand if I am developing housing the Harbor Garage is an amazing site and at the top of my list along with the Winthrop garage, the garage near the chinatown gateway and any potential sites in Back Bay or the Bulfinch Triangle area.

Re: Facebook, it is not unprecedented for established internet companies to go downtown. FWIW Paypal went into International Place. Not Kendall, not Fort Point, not the Seaport. Class-A in FiDi.

We are starting to see the prestige of Kendall and the Seaport morph into a more general prestige for any address in Boston and Cambridge. Rents are excruciatingly high in Kendall. It has very nearly reached "victim of its own success" status, with the city needing to extort startup space with subsidized rent in new construction. I've heard DTX and Chinatown are red hot for small tech and creative companies right now.

 

[whighlander]

I had hoped posting that I would not drag this thread off topic so i will respond briefly and we can get back to the aquarium garage. Obviously its a personal opinion of mine but here it goes.

-The two towers staggered heights create a sloping taper up to the tip of 1IP which is the crown/focal point of downtown Boston.
-Off bronze color fits into the Boston pallette perfectly while having a clean slit of black glass to give interest to the eye.
-Round footprints draw interest to an otherwise square footprint dominated skyline.
-1Ip has a cornice that is perfectly mated to the building and tastefully lit at night
-Facade depth that is both interesting and creative with many things going on for the eye to look at
-The smaller tower takes the depth of the facade one step further to be a nice compliment for an otherwise shorter twin
-The shorter tower also has a cornice along with a pointed crown, both lit, (which I believe holds a water tank) adding more character to the otherwise shorter twin
-Built during a time where Boston was mainly cheap square shaped filing cabinet esque office towers
-When built filled in a significant gap in the skyline.
-Beautiful winter garden
-Unique, I dont know anything that looks remotely close to this when you take all of this into account

To sum that up it has a Boston color pallette, is unique, capped off a previously terrible skyline and made it actually quite nice, has a cornice, a winter garden, and is just generally regarded as a beautifully designed complex by most everyone. Essentially its just badass. It is honestly harder to find reasons why it is not amazing than why it is.

Edit: I actually thought about it and there is nothing that I don't like about IP.

I apologize I just really like this complex. This and 60 State St. are probably my two favorites in the city.

Stick -- you apparently don't subscribe to Robert Campbell's comment that it looked like Johnson had an affair with a window's saleswoman

Or the fact that Johnson in working around the BPL one of the true gems of Boston or anywhere -- blatantly stole McKim's light fixture brackets

But the best of the IP tower comments was made when the old Travelers Building was imploded for the tower @ 125 High Street -- when the dust cleared and IP came into view someone shouted --Oh Shhhhhhhhhht they blew up the wrong building