[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

"How many voters do you think live in Harbor Towers?"

Should read:

"How many campaign contributions do you think come from Harbor Towers?
 
Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

Kunstler is wrong on that Nesting shop in Wappingers Falls. (see the eyesore thing from a few months back). The new painting scheme actually lightened up a drab intersection on Route 9D. The building used to be all white and filthy. I know what is there now isn't the Apple Store, but it is fun to come down that road from the blase commercial corridor of Route 9 and get to the intersection and see that across the way.

Economically that intersection is not Exeter and Newbury. Cut it a little slack will ya? Somebody made an attempt to brighten up an intersection of houses, living room bars, a fire station, and a part time tax accountant. Would you suggest an Arby's to go there? A pocket park? A Phillip Johnson cube? Get a grip.
 
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Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

First - Voters in Harbor Towers? Has anyone actually been inside Harbor Towers? It has the aura and mystique (a la Curt Schilling) of a roadside Motel 6. 6.75 foot high ceilings, a somewhat transient community, and no equity from their recent repairs. I'd act like a troll if I had to live in that environment.

Secondly - Menino has been on the chest pumping thing since Michael Flaherty announced his run for mayor. Have you noticed the stories popping up in the Globe recently:

1. Last week - Ted Landsmark (TED LANDSMARK!!!!!) says maybe busing should start to go away, a clearly planted Menino trial balloon to counteract any salvo on schools from Flaherty.

2. Stories about how much of a bad place South Boston is with people saving parking spaces after snow storms. Happens in every neighborhood to some degree outside of the Back Bay and South End. Southie gets picked on just because Flaherty lives in City Point.

3. Yesterday - Story on the front page of the Metro section not actually saying that Flaherty's wife is out of shape but dropping hints.

4. Today - Come on down and get your traffic tickets fixed at BMC. The Globe was basically offering 50% coupons for the City controlled court. How did the Globe get an idea to run a story like this.

Good attemps at sane urban construction like the Garage proposal or Boylston Place (1999) get crushed before they have a chance if Tommy does not like you. I am starting to feel like we've got Kevin White drunk on power again in Boston, except this time things are being seen through coke bottled glasses from Readville.
 
Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

John, with all due respect, don't compare Menino with Kevin White. White had a vision, architectural discernment, and saved the city from the wholesale "urban renewal" that destroyed so much of it's historic fabric. In fact, Menino has reverted back to the pre-White concepts of city-sponsored demolition for favored developer clients. It used to be the Rappaport's, now it's the Druker's. What currently worries me is the disposition of the new Fort Point historical district. Has anyone seen a map? Is it, like the Theater District, gerrymandered around properties owned by people of influence?
 
Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

I was thinking of Menino drunk on power a la Kevin White's "fundraisers" at the MFA in the late 1970's and early 1980's with public employees "encouraged" to donate. 1980's. His use of the Parker House as power preservation efforts as well, not the Kevin White of the early 1970's.

Menino is getting stale. His reactions to John Hynes' proposal for a private school in the Seaport was despotic. Cities are not just buildings. I grew up in Dorchester in the 1970's and 1980's. I came out of the Boston Public and Archdiocese schools. Politics is a bloodsport and I watched it and was involved in it growing up. Too much time has lapsed, a fresh new approach is needed. Boston cannot just be controlled by a few yuppie fiefdoms. Menino sometimes put too much power in the hands on limited neighborhood residents. A few residents holding up sane examples of urban planning, like Boylston Square? That's nuts.

Before we go an deify Kevin From Heaven, just remember he rubber stamped the Long Wharf Marriott, was hell bent on getting the Park Square Towers built, and would have destroyed more neighborhoods if the HUD money had not dried up because of post Vietnam over spending.
 
Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

I was thinking of Menino drunk on power a la Kevin White's "fundraisers" at the MFA in the late 1970's and early 1980's with public employees "encouraged" to donate. 1980's. His use of the Parker House as power preservation efforts as well, not the Kevin White of the early 1970's.

I also think the reason White cancelled his re-election campaign, even though it was well along, is that US Attorney William Weld told him that if he ran he would be prosecuted for corruption.

from Wiki page on Weld:
He served for five years as United States Attorney in Massachusetts. In the early 1980s, Weld engaged in a highly publicized investigation into the administration of Kevin White, then mayor of Boston.


I grew up in Dorchester in the 1970's and 1980's. I came out of the Boston Public and Archdiocese schools. Politics is a bloodsport and I watched it and was involved in it growing up.
you must have read
A Wicked Howl by Stephen Dhooge
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b...ipbooks&field-keywords=a+wicked+howl&x=6&y=22
http://www.dotnews.com/awickedhowl.html

Boston cannot just be controlled by a few yuppie fiefdoms.
I would bet Southie still has more power than all the 'yuppie fiefdoms'combined.
 
Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

This article explains a lot:
http://www.boston.com/ae/theater_arts/articles/2009/02/08/redesign_is_up_in_the_air/

Developer Don Chiofaro sits at the table in his conference room. On the table, lined up like troops on parade, are perhaps 10 or a dozen elegantly crafted wood models of a tower complex. This is a project he'd like to build on the site of the Harbor Garage, which he owns. It's a key location in Boston, between the New England Aquarium on one side and the center of the new Greenway on the other.

The models all look different. In some, the towers are square. In others, they're round. Sometimes there's only one big tower. Sometimes there's a cluster of two or three.

All these models represent designs created for Chiofaro by William Pedersen, the chief designer in a prominent firm of architects, Kohn Pedersen Fox in New York.

This week, Chiofaro plucked one of the models and released images of it to the Globe. I'm not going to say this was nothing but a trial balloon. It's the design Chiofaro is currently in love with. But it's just one of many possibilities. As long ago as last April, he tried out some variants on this critic. "There will be a million iterations," says Chiofaro.

This current design is a three-tower version. Reaction to its display in the Globe, was, to put it gently, mixed. Most people seemed to think the complex looked more like a matched set of furniture than an impressive building. I felt the same. Three tall, slim, mirrored cabinets for somebody's high-end vestibule, maybe.

But we don't have to worry. Inevitably, the building will change. Chiofaro's move is much more about process than about design. He'd like to kick-start the process of winning eventual approval from city planners, some thing he guesses will take three years. He wants to start that conversation now.

Development is a game, like poker. There's bluff, there's daring, there's a time to fold. Chiofaro clearly loves the game. He's now got a face card showing. What remains in the hole, or the deck, we won't know for a while.

I called the architect in New York about that face card. Whether you like his design or not, he's got an interesting rationale for it.

"The Boston planners kept asking us to think about what would be a Boston high rise," says Bill Pedersen, emphasizing the world "Boston." "When you look at Boston, you see two important building types. There are the brownstones" - New Yorker Pedersen calls them that, although in Boston most townhouses are brick - "and near the waterfront, there are the old warehouses. In both types, you have long masonry bearing walls at both sides, with large openings in the front and rear."

Pedersen's towers, in the current version, imitate that traditional form, although at a hugely greater height. The sidewalls of the towers, which are the north and south sides, are indeed bearing walls. Each is made of a sort of screen of structural columns, closely spaced and finished in brick-toned terra cotta, with narrow windows between.

The east and west walls, by contrast, imitate the fronts and back of warehouses and townhouses. They're narrow and made entirely of transparent glass.

The terra cotta walls frame the glass in the way wood may frame a mirror. That's what makes the buildings look like a giant's furniture. Pedersen's idea is too literal, and it doesn't translate well from the world of ideas to the world of actual buildings.

In today's economy, Chiofaro is not going to be able to finance and build this complex any time soon. It's a huge project. In the current version there are two occupied towers. One holds 200-300 hotel rooms, topped by maybe 120 condos. The other tower contains 850,000 square feet of office space, almost half the floor area of the Hancock Tower.

There's also that third tower. It's a strange frame-like element that pokes up toward the sky between the other towers. It has no practical purpose. "It's pure architecture, pure sculpture," says Chiofaro. "I want to make the buildings feel like a gateway from the harbor to the Greenway." He also, one intuits, wants to build the tallest building in downtown Boston.

The lower floors of the whole complex will be a shopping arcade, another 70,000 square feet. Boston architects Elkus Manfredi helped develop the arcade. The Harbor Garage is to be demolished, but replaced with underground parking for 1,200 to 1,400 cars.

A lot of this makes sense: the mix of different uses, the presence of long-term residents, the chance to bring people to the now dead Greenway by means of the shops and hotel. Chiofaro first became known for the huge International Place development a few blocks away. Nobody's ever accused him of a lack of ambition.

But as noted, the process is only beginning. The city has hired the architecture and planning firm Utile to conduct a study of about 15 sites - the number isn't final yet - along the margins of the Greenway, sites that are thought to be ripe for redevelopment. The Harbor Garage is probably the most important.

Utile is working with Canadian urban designer Ken Greenberg, one of the best in the business. They hope to propose new rules for future redevelopment on the 15 sites, looking at issues like height, shadows, street life, parking, and transportation.

But they're just getting started. Utile's Tim Love says they held their first meeting with city planners only this week. The first public meeting is scheduled for Feb. 17. The group will have recommendations to the city in perhaps six months. After that, it's assumed, will come a lengthy process of zoning revision.

And only this week, members of the state Legislature, responding to Chiofaro's current proposal, proposed a new law that would reduce the amount of shadow allowed to be cast by tall buildings. We can expect lots of other forces to weigh in as the tale continues.

It should be fun to stay tuned.

Globe architecture critic can be reached at
 
Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

I did not know about that book. I did go to grammar school and was in scouts with someone who might be the author's nephew. I will order it up.
 
Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

I guess my point is that compared to Menino and Flynn, White was a virtual Pericles. That he had a vision not consistent with the wholesale demolition and Charles River Park approach that was then the norm for American cities, and managed to codify it in a town dominated by parochial interests, ward bosses, and omnipotent public employees unions, is staggeringly impressive (to me). Did he step on toes? Sure, most prominent being those Fire-fighter and Police unions. But in a state whose motto is "the end justifies the means", and where Menino has socially engineered the city into an octogenreinette's day-care center, I'm willing to give him slack.
 
Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

Many of the owners in Harbor Towers bought and combined all the units on a given floor. The kings and queens of entire floors enjoy 360 degree views from their kingdoms. When the special assessments came up for the HVAC replacement, many people whom threw childish fits, only had massive bills because of owning entire floors.

The crumbling garage's underground levels also house all their cars. I'm sure they are angry about not only losing views, but having their parking relocated during construction.

Essentially they are suburban brats stacked vertically and can't stand the dense city closing in on them.
 
Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

Don't worry. If the more radical version of the shadow law passes, the Harbor Towers will have to be torn down.
 
Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

If this gets built (and it won't) Boston will have more boxes than UPS.
 
Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

it's a terrific design....anything built in Boston with a totally non-functional piece of ornament is a plus....

people will ask what the hell is that and we can respond 'it's a sky frame...it's art'
 
Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

plus I am sick of all the Harbor Tower schmucks....they are basically pariahs
 
Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

I just don't see the appeal in this project. Maybe it's me. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for taking down the garage and building something. Just not this.
 
Re: New tower at Aquarium parking garage.

The project would be a missing piece to the Greenway. It would bring much needed LIFE & ENERGY to that specific area.

It's a very BOLD design for Boston. On positive notes I think this project would bring serious private investors that would actually invest into the Boston Aquarium.
The only complainers are Harbor Tower residents including our Mayor which was probably expected. What the Developer should have done was try to make a deal with Harbor Tower residents for their land and rebuild that entire area. Those TOWERS look like they were built in the STONE age.

I hope this gets BUILT. This project would make the Greenway much more vibrant.


The only real problem with this area is still TRAFFIC.
 
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