BCEC expansion | Seaport

CSTH said:
They're just going underground
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Well, if they are making a foolhardy decision by building it, the perennial Globe/Herald pearl-clutching about parking the Seaport will hopefully go away at least!
 
Ugh.

Apparently the MCCA is building a 200-car surface lot next to the two new hotels on D Street. This, an interim step since the convention center expansion was tabled.

Ugh because, as we saw when they put a surface lot next to the Liberty Tree building in ... say, 1990? it has a way of staying around for years, if not decades.

Ugh also b/c the parking garage was proposed as having street-level retail, which would have benefited that (my) block of D Street.
 
From the Lewis Wharf hotel thread:
stefalarchitect said:
I know somebody that works at Logan. Supposedly every single hotel room in Boston has been booked the past year. When they have cancellations, the passengers are screwed. I think we could go for a few more hotel rooms, not only because the city is out of rooms, but also because of the price.
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Let's note right here that Charlie Baker was correct to cancel the $1b expansion of the BCEC. The city's hotels are so full it is stifling "normal commerce" (you know, like real business travel where a Boston company is party to a for-profit business transaction with somebody from elsewhere)

Additional Note: This is also what I heard about the new hotel(s) in Chelsea that have gone up, originally supposed to be for capturing/facilitating FBI business, but the reality is that they have been at near-sellout even while the FBI hasn't opened.

So spare us any justification for the BCEC that begins from the premise that the hotels somehow need the business or want the tax or think the tax is best spent on the BCEC. They clearly don't, and it is the legislative-construction-bureaucrat complex that's pushing BCEC expansion, not the hotels.

Rather, it seems that what we need:
1) More hotel capacity
2) Better load balancing between hotels via better transportation

If the tax remains in place (is it still being collected?) it'll be better spent on things like Back Bay-Seaport or NSRL or T-under-D or signal priority or ANYTHING to improve "visitor mobility" in the core to ensure that when rooms are available in one place they can plausibly serve other places in the core.
 
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Arlington said:
From the Lewis Wharf hotel thread:


Let's note right here that Charlie Baker was correct to cancel the $1b expansion of the BCEC. The city's hotels are so full it is stifling "normal commerce" (you know, like real business travel where a Boston company is party to a for-profit business transaction with somebody from elsewhere)

Additional Note: This is also what I heard about the new hotel(s) in Chelsea that have gone up, originally supposed to be for capturing/facilitating FBI business, but the reality is that they have been at near-sellout even while the FBI hasn't opened.

So spare us any justification for the BCEC that begins from the premise that the hotels somehow need the business or want the tax or think the tax is best spent on the BCEC. They clearly don't, and it is the legislative-construction-bureaucrat complex that's pushing BCEC expansion, not the hotels.

Rather, it seems that what we need:
1) More hotel capacity
2) Better load balancing between hotels via better transportation

If the tax remains in place (is it still being collected?) it'll be better spent on things like Back Bay-Seaport or NSRL or T-under-D or signal priority or ANYTHING to improve "visitor mobility" in the core to ensure that when rooms are available in one place they can plausibly serve other places in the core.
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Three issues with this argument:

1) The quote from the Lewis Wharf thread concerns price-conscious airlines half-heartedly trying to accommodate passengers overnight, not executives on expense accounts. Very different markets. Just because some guy who works at Logan feels like the hotels are fully-booked doesn't mean that every room is taken.

2) We should be having a discussion in Massachusetts about where the tourism tax money should be going. We aren't. Baker has not initiated that discussion. Honestly, I don't know where that tax money is going now that the expansion is dead - you don't either, since you asked if it's still being collected. What I can see is that since Baker killed the expansion, one hotel project in is completely dead, and two others are rumored to be abandoned upon completion. The development of D Street and the BCEC neighborhood is stalled. Those are real consequences, and clearly hotel developers don't see the same desperation to provide rooms that you do.

3) I'm fairly certain that "real for-profit business transactions" happen at conventions and trade shows. Actually, that's the whole point of conventions and trade shows. Many of those deals will involve Massachusetts companies, which will be taking advantage of their industry gathering being local for them. That may even be why some of them located here.
 
^ my experience at large conventions in LAS (Photo marketing association), CHI (housewares), MSY (human resources) and WAS (also HR) was that any deals done had basically only slightly more than random connection to the host city and frankly simply greased deals that happened by phone.

Maybe 20% to 30% of attendees were local so, yes, 10x more likely to attend from a local metro area having 2% to 3% of national pop--but the locals were day visitors (no hotel stay) and low value browsers (who could persuade the boss to call attendance "continuing education" or "professional enrichment" but they didn't come with deal making authority) and maybe local exhibitors were were 10% of booths (3x over represented, but mostly at the small and remote booths) and did not particularly gain national exposure.

The anchor exhibitors were national brands and the high powered visitors were not there to discover indigenous local companies.
 
Don't forget the BCEC expansion included more hotel rooms. Is it a number corresponding to the additional capacity? I don't think so. But there were more hotel rooms.
 
Arlington said:
From the Lewis Wharf hotel thread:


Let's note right here that Charlie Baker was correct to cancel the $1b expansion of the BCEC. The city's hotels are so full it is stifling "normal commerce" (you know, like real business travel where a Boston company is party to a for-profit business transaction with somebody from elsewhere)

Additional Note: This is also what I heard about the new hotel(s) in Chelsea that have gone up, originally supposed to be for capturing/facilitating FBI business, but the reality is that they have been at near-sellout even while the FBI hasn't opened.

So spare us any justification for the BCEC that begins from the premise that the hotels somehow need the business or want the tax or think the tax is best spent on the BCEC. They clearly don't, and it is the legislative-construction-bureaucrat complex that's pushing BCEC expansion, not the hotels.

Rather, it seems that what we need:
1) More hotel capacity
2) Better load balancing between hotels via better transportation

If the tax remains in place (is it still being collected?) it'll be better spent on things like Back Bay-Seaport or NSRL or T-under-D or signal priority or ANYTHING to improve "visitor mobility" in the core to ensure that when rooms are available in one place they can plausibly serve other places in the core.
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I think that Billion dollars needs to go into the states infrastructure along with figured out how to clean out the MBTA cess pool of deadbeats and create a self-sufficient GRID for this first class city.
 
Arlington said:
^ my experience at large conventions in LAS (Photo marketing association), CHI (housewares), MSY (human resources) and WAS (also HR) was that any deals done had basically only slightly more than random connection to the host city and frankly simply greased deals that happened by phone.

Maybe 20% to 30% of attendees were local so, yes, 10x more likely to attend from a local metro area having 2% to 3% of national pop--but the locals were day visitors (no hotel stay) and low value browsers (who could persuade the boss to call attendance "continuing education" or "professional enrichment" but they didn't come with deal making authority) and maybe local exhibitors were were 10% of booths (3x over represented, but mostly at the small and remote booths) and did not particularly gain national exposure.

The anchor exhibitors were national brands and the high powered visitors were not there to discover indigenous local companies.
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Arlington there are very big differences between:
  • Technical Meetings / Conferences -- a lot of attendees sitting and listening to papers with small booth exhibits -- ideally suited for the Hynes and its connected hotels -- e.g. Materials Research Society annual meeting
    F15-Logo-Banner-150x132.jpg

    2015 MRS Fall Meeting & Exhibit
    Sunday, November 29-Friday, December 4, 2015
    Hynes Convention Center, Level 2
    Exhibits: Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday
    Exhibit Space Fees:
    Standard Booth $2,700
    Entrepreneur Booth $2,000
    Estimated attendees: 7,200
  • Popular / "Gate" consumer shows -- make $ off the fees to enter
    New England International Auto Show
    January 14, 2016 - January 18, 2016
    http://www.bostonautoshow.com
    NEInfoGraphicforWebsite.jpg
  • National Trade shows -- medium to major cost exhibits
    such as
    Seafood Expo North America/Seafood Processing North America the largest seafood trade event in North America.
    The event attracts over 20,000 buyers and suppliers of fresh, frozen, packaged and value-added seafood products, equipment, and services.
    Attendees travel from more than 100 countries to do business at the exposition.
    2015 -- 20,680 seafood professionals participating in the three-day event, held March 15-17 in Boston, MA.

    The exhibit hall, which featured 220,130 square feet of exhibit space, was represented by 1,204 exhibiting companies from 51 countries—
    5.jpg

    http://www.seafoodexpo.com/north-am...he-35th-edition-of-seafood-expo-north-america
  • Global-scale International Conventions and Exhibitions -- ASM Microbe 2016
    http://asmmicrobe.org/
    June 16–20, 2016, BCEC Boston, MA showcases the best microbial sciences in the world and provides a one-of-a-kind forum to explore the complete spectrum of microbiology from basic science to translation and application.
    ASM Microbe 2016 is the largest gathering of microbiologists in the world and the only meeting in the field that explores the full scope of microbiology – from basic science to translational and clinical application. By integrating ASM's two most popular events, General Meeting and ICAAC, ASM Microbe 2016 provides unparalleled learning and networking opportunities that you cannot find anywhere else.
    Drawing more than 10,000 attendees and exhibitors from around the world, and featuring over 200 sessions plus more than 5,000 posters, ASM Microbe 2016 provides an unmatched value. By attending this meeting, you can learn the best microbial sciences in the world, explore the complete spectrum of microbiology, interact with multi-disciplinary microbiologists, meet leading product and service providers, get Continuing Education, and more. You will return home informed and recharged, and be well-prepared for whatever comes your way. This is the meeting that anyone involved in microbiology should attend!
    ASM_Microbe2016_left215.jpg

each of these has a totally different type of mix of attendees and their $ contributions to the economy, demand for hotel rooms, etc.

The latter category -- sub category International Scale while rare produces the maximum impact on the economy and is dominated by people who arrive by air, stay in up-scale hotels and travel by chartered bus to / from BCEC
 
You guys might be having a separate conversation (argument) but I've been impressed this past year at how well the car traffic is handled. Actually, strike that; how little car traffic there is. I guess a lot of people stay at the Westin and other Seaport hotels, and some take the bus/train to South Station. There never seems to be anyone driving down D Street, lost, or going in the back way. (Then again, I'm not up at 7 am so not sure if it's congested earlier.)
 
JohnAKeith said:
You guys might be having a separate conversation (argument) but I've been impressed this past year at how well the car traffic is handled. Actually, strike that; how little car traffic there is. I guess a lot of people stay at the Westin and other Seaport hotels, and some take the bus/train to South Station. There never seems to be anyone driving down D Street, lost, or going in the back way. (Then again, I'm not up at 7 am so not sure if it's congested earlier.)
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I, for one, always try to go in the back way.
 
TheRifleman said:
I think that Billion dollars needs to go into the states infrastructure along with figured out how to clean out the MBTA cess pool of deadbeats and create a self-sufficient GRID for this first class city.
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Figure out what really brings in tourists and out of state visitors then do more of that with the hotel tax revenue. If it's bigger and bigger big box conventions then expand the convention center. If it's beer, then buy everyone a beer. If a big roller coaster down the greenway would do the trick, then let's roll. If it is cheaper hotel rooms, then cut the damn tax.

The purpose of the hotel tax is to use the revenue to make investments in order to expand revenue from out of state visitors, there are plenty of other taxes that tap into that revenue that can and should be used to invest in everyday infrastructure.
 
https://flic.kr/p/yZYy29
New parking lot on D Str. This is where the proposed garage will be. I noticed they have brought in a lot of fill and the lot is about 3 to 4 and a half feet above street level.
 
BeeLine said:
This is where the proposed garage will be. I noticed they have brought in a lot of fill and the lot is about 3 to 4 and a half feet above street level.
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A sea-level / storm-surge thing, maybe? 3 feet is about how much higher NYC's "ground level" needs to be to protect from the "next Sandy". My understanding was that Boston was kind of in the same position.
 
timsox6 said:
Convention Center Hotel Plans, as per the Globe.
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the Globe story suggests that it could be both a Hotel and residences on the origibnal 2 acre site with parking garage to follow

Massport revives, scales back Seaport hotel plan

DAVID L. RYAN/GLOBE STAFF
With no expanded Boston Convention Center, plans for a nearby hotel will be scaled back.

By Jon Chesto GLOBE STAFF NOVEMBER 17, 2015
The Massachusetts Port Authority is reviving its effort to build a hotel on land it owns across the street from the Boston Convention & Exhibition Center, but this one could be less than half the size of its original proposal.....

The decision to move ahead with a smaller proposal could make it more likely that the new project can be built without tax breaks or other public subsidies...

The location: a 2-acre site at the intersection of D and Summer streets.... The smaller facility would no longer need to have the ballroom and meeting room space expected of a convention center “headquarters hotel.”

Baker’s halting of the expansion prompted Massport to hire local consultancy Pinnacle Advisory Group ...The group determined that the demand is there, Glynn said, but the agency shouldn’t wait around much longer to start the project....

There are three development teams that already have a head start — the ones that submitted formal applications for the much bigger hotel job. Glynn said all three teams say they’re interested in bidding on the smaller project as well.

Those groups include: Fallon Co. and Capstone Development; a consortium known as New Boston Hospitality, spearheaded by Davis Cos., Congress Group, and hotelier Robin Brown; and a group consisting of RIDA Development, Accordia Partners, and Ares Management....

Other factors include financial self-sufficiency, the ability to complete the job, and the quality of the project’s design.

Massport officials are leaving open the kind of hotel and its precise size. There are only a few requirements, such as a minimum of 250 rooms and some street-level retail spaces. Options such as offices and apartments could be considered for the site as well. Massport is also separately looking to build a nearly 1,500-space garage next door.

The agency estimates that construction could start on the smaller hotel by 2018 and be wrapped up by 2020.
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So even if the BCEC is revisited or not it looks as if there is demand for yet another hotel in the Seaport / Innovation District
 
whighlander said:
the Globe story suggests that it could be both a Hotel and residences on the origibnal 2 acre site with parking garage to follow



So even if the BCEC is revisited or not it looks as if there is demand for yet another hotel in the Seaport / Innovation District
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Every convention I've been to at BCEC has bussed people from multiple hotels in Back Bay, so the proposed hotel can easily be filled with current BCEC-sized events. That said, BCEC only goes close to capacity ~once a month.

I know Vertex (about 0.5 mile away from BCEC, but in the Seaport) has conferences of >100 participants on occasion (116 in the latest iteration I'm familiar with). Obviously not a huge number, but just an example of the type of activity that brings guests into the area and can fill the rooms.

I fully expect any hotel in the area to get good business, without the need for BCEC expansion.
 
dwash59 said:
Every convention I've been to at BCEC has bussed people from multiple hotels in Back Bay, so the proposed hotel can easily be filled with current BCEC-sized events. That said, BCEC only goes close to capacity ~once a month.

I know Vertex (about 0.5 mile away from BCEC, but in the Seaport) has conferences of >100 participants on occasion (116 in the latest iteration I'm familiar with). Obviously not a huge number, but just an example of the type of activity that brings guests into the area and can fill the rooms.

I fully expect any hotel in the area to get good business, without the need for BCEC expansion.
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I have to agree, we are still suffering a severe hotel capacity limitation in Boston, and it is not always due to a big BCEC event. I have had to move several planned events around to find weeks that had sufficient capacity for a mid-size event. There are times, even without a BCEC event, that we are literally sold out in the city.

Per the GSA, we are the third most expensive city in the US for business travel, behind San Francisco and New York, largely due to hotel prices.
 
odurandina said:
Not sure if you guys have a separate hotel thread, so i'll just put this here....

Great news!

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...enter-hotel/I0T2b1iHZIFt5WEqGOGysO/story.html
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I second the sentiments of the Buildit - big and now Cheering Section :D:eek: -- but no mention of height? :eek: ]

A massive convention center hotel is likely after all
By Jon Chesto GLOBE STAFF OCTOBER 19, 2016
A year ago, the Massachusetts Port Authority pared back its ambitions for a huge hotel in South Boston after Governor Charlie Baker shelved plans to expand the convention center across Summer Street. But now Massport is poised to get a giant hotel after all, one with more than 1,000 rooms....

Pat Moscaritolo, head of the Greater Boston Convention & Visitors Bureau, a trade group, said that Omni may be able to fill many rooms at the new Boston hotel even without conventiongoers.

“People could raise a doubt about whether a 1,100-room hotel would work with the [convention center] building not being expanded,” Moscaritolo said. “But Omni has a major sales and marketing team, and they will be out selling Boston around the globe.”

Jon Chesto can be reached at jon.chesto@globe.com. Follow him on Twitter @jonchesto.
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Three key observations:
  • Seaport / Innovation / GE Keiretsu District [SIGD?] is coming of age ..
    "the Omni project also partially reflects an increase in the number of major employers within walking distance of the convention center, including new offices opened within the past two years for PwC, Goodwin Procter, and General Electric. “You can see that the center of the city has shifted,” Begelfer said
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  • no public subsidy will be needed to build or operate the hotel......
    ......“Obviously, they’re seeing a good opportunity [in Boston],” Deanna Ting, an associate editor at Skift, a travel news site, said of Omni. “Any time there is a bid open for a hotel company to build a hotel next to a convention center, they’re going to jump on it, especially in a top-tier city . . . and a city like Boston is definitely top-tier.”
    Click to expand...
  • As noted recently the bounds of the SIGD is already expanding toward the other Chanel and soon will be expanding toward Dot Ave -- time to get the USPS out of its cushy location and fix the connection via Dot Ave
 
Wild guess here but probably 260 feet at its highest point seeing as it is in the same FAA zone as all the other Seaport developments.
 
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