Better MBTA Station Names

[LtKije]

Agreed. Moreover, a lot of these "squares" are not NOT squares in their physical shape, but in their 2023 nature.

Gilman was an actual "square" in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, but now it's two gas stations and a restaurant and nobody in Somerville -- even people who live in the area (hi!) -- have ever called it "Gilman Square" (although that could change, but not any time soon since, as previously discussed, there are no plans to develop the area and certain prohibiting factors block any meaningful development for at least the next decade).

"City Hall" or "School Street" would be a much more accurate present-day name for the stop.

I’m in the Gilman Square Facebook group, and I can vouch there are many Gilman Square boosters who earnestly use the name. The T stop is a bit of positive reinforcement. It helped me learn the name of the neighborhood, but as I read up about it, I came to learn it’s legitimate and as good a name as anything (though I still maintain it should just be “Gilman”). But I’ll be a little snarky and say that if you don’t like Gilman, since city hall, the high school, and the library are all there, “Government Center” should be repurposed for the stop, and Boston can make do with “Boston City Hall”

 

[JeffDowntown]

I’m in the Gilman Square Facebook group, and I can vouch there are many Gilman Square boosters who earnestly use the name. The T stop is a bit of positive reinforcement. It helped me learn the name of the neighborhood, but as I read up about it, I came to learn it’s legitimate and as good a name as anything (though I still maintain it should just be “Gilman”). But I’ll be a little snarky and say that if you don’t like Gilman, since city hall, the high school, and the library are all there, “Government Center” should be repurposed for the stop, and Boston can make do with “Boston City Hall”

You do understand that Government Center, Boston has a lot more "government" clustered there than just Boston City Hall. State Offices, Federal Buildings, Courts.... I think Gilman works fine for the townie center.

 

[JumboBuc]

I don't think the distance to Fenway Park from the eponymous station is too significantly further than Kenmore. It's definitely more convenient for people riding between there and outer D-Line stops. But I like the name for other reasons, primarily that it serves as a good reminder that the ball park is named for the neighborhood and not the other way around.

Just as the ballpark itself was named for the neighborhood and parkway, Fenway station is also named for the neighborhood and parkway; it isn’t named for Fenway Park. The station was originally opened as Fenway Park in the ‘50s, but was renamed in the ‘70s to drop the “Park” for all the reasons pointed out as to why Fenway Park isn’t a good name for it.

 

[Koopzilla24]

"Ruggles" doesn't need renaming at all, since I don't think that a person being a loyalist matters 250 years after we won the war.

What about renaming Ruggles to Melnea Cass and changing the Silver Like stop to something else? It’s located basically at one end of the Boulevard and I think it’d be a better honor to her legacy than one of the worst roads in Boston or a SL bus stop. Leaky transit hub>>dangerous heavily congested road. Ignoring the whole “no people’s names for stops” thing which I agree with, it still serves a purpose as a location marker. That or just calling it Columbus or Tremont Station but Columbus runs into the exact same issue as Ruggles but worse

 

[Equilibria]

What about renaming Ruggles to Melnea Cass and changing the Silver Like stop to something else? It’s located basically at one end of the Boulevard and I think it’d be a better honor to her legacy than one of the worst roads in Boston or a SL bus stop. Leaky transit hub>>dangerous heavily congested road. Ignoring the whole “no people’s names for stops” thing which I agree with, it still serves a purpose as a location marker. That or just calling it Columbus or Tremont Station but Columbus runs into the exact same issue as Ruggles but worse

Given that Ruggles is not just an OL stop but also a CR stop (and on the NEC so it's a possible Amtrak stop in the future too), I think the most general geographic name is best - either "Northeastern University" or "Roxbury".

There are other GL/OL stops in those geographies but not other regional rail stops. Goes with a logic of naming the gateway rail stations after the neighborhoods they're in, like "Back Bay". In the same vein, JFK/UMass should be "Columbia Point" or even "Dorchester", and don't even get me started on the stupidity of "West Station", which if ever built should be called "Allston", "Lower Allston", or "Beacon Park". "Lansdowne" should be "Fenway", with the GL station changing to "Audobon Circle" (or clearly mark the walking connection and call it "Kenmore").

 

[bigeman312]

Given that Ruggles is not just an OL stop but also a CR stop (and on the NEC so it's a possible Amtrak stop in the future too), I think the most general geographic name is best - either "Northeastern University" or "Roxbury".

There are other GL/OL stops in those geographies but not other regional rail stops. Goes with a logic of naming the gateway rail stations after the neighborhoods they're in, like "Back Bay". In the same vein, JFK/UMass should be "Columbia Point" or even "Dorchester", and don't even get me started on the stupidity of "West Station", which if ever built should be called "Allston", "Lower Allston", or "Beacon Park". "Lansdowne" should be "Fenway", with the GL station changing to "Audobon Circle" (or clearly mark the walking connection and call it "Kenmore").

I agree that:

• West Station should be Allston
• Landsdowne should be Fenway
  • Fenway should be Audobon Circle

To add on to this:

• Boston Landing should be Brighton
• Blue Hill Ave should be Mattapan
  • Mattapan should be Mattapan Square

I disagree that:

• JFK/UMass should be Dorchester (because of the presence of Talbot Ave, Four Corners / Geneva, Uphams Corner, and Newmarket), but I can get behind renaming it Columbia (Point), as it was called until 1982.

I have mixed feelings about:

• Renaming Forest Hills to Jamaica Plain. I think my mixed feelings stem from the fact that Commuter Rail is so much more minor in Jamaica Plain than Orange Line service is, and therefore it feels more arbitrary to name one of the four Orange Line stops after the naighborhood as a whole
• Renaming Porter to Cambridge. Similar to the bullet point above, the Red Line is much more major in Cambridge than the Commuter Rail and therefore it feels arbitrary to name Porter after the city. In fact, it feels like there would be a better argument for Harvard or even Central, and therefore, I would break from this naming convention for both Porter and Forest Hills.

 

[Equilibria]

I disagree that:

• JFK/UMass should be Dorchester (because of the presence of Talbot Ave, Four Corners / Geneva, Uphams Corner, and Newmarket), but I can get behind renaming it Columbia (Point), as it was called until 1982.

Alternatively, if Columbus is a naming nonstarter in the 21st Century, I'd also be fine with renaming the neighborhood "Kennedy Point" and fixing the problem from the other direction, though both museumed Kennedy brothers have their moral warts (and big ones). Maybe pretend it's named after just Bobby.

I have mixed feelings about:

• Renaming Forest Hills to Jamaica Plain. I think my mixed feelings stem from the fact that Commuter Rail is so much more minor in Jamaica Plain than Orange Line service is, and therefore it feels more arbitrary to name one of the four Orange Line stops after the naighborhood as a whole
• Renaming Porter to Cambridge. Similar to the bullet point above, the Red Line is much more major in Cambridge than the Commuter Rail and therefore it feels arbitrary to name Porter after the city. In fact, it feels like there would be a better argument for Harvard or even Central, and therefore, I would break from this naming convention for both Porter and Forest Hills.

Porter Square is enough of a known location to be a fine station name, particularly as other locations in Cambridge are more "Cambridge" (Kendall in addition to Harvard and Central) and the station is situated on the town line with much of its catchment in Somerville. Same issue with Forest Hills, which is right on the border with Roslindale.

 

[JumboBuc]

Anybody else on here find this entire thread -- I dunno -- kind of offensive? I understand that this is all more of a thought exercise than an actual policy pitch, but the thought of wholesale scrambling around T station names sorta makes my skin crawl.

I'm much too small-c conservative to think that all of this discussed change for change's sake is a good idea. Legacy station names inform their surroundings just as much as the other way around, and sometimes even more!

The station names (with the exceptions of the ones that are problematic) are fine just the way they are, thankyouverymuch.

 

[Blackbird]

Anybody else on here find this entire thread -- I dunno -- kind of offensive? I understand that this is all more of a thought exercise than an actual policy pitch, but the thought of wholesale scrambling around T station names sorta makes my skin crawl.

I'm much too small-c conservative to think that all of this discussed change for change's sake is a good idea. Legacy station names inform their surroundings just as much as the other way around, and sometimes even more!

The station names (with the exceptions of the ones that are problematic) are fine just the way they are, thankyouverymuch.

Did you react similarly when Essex became Chinatown?

 

[bigeman312]

Anybody else on here find this entire thread -- I dunno -- kind of offensive? I understand that this is all more of a thought exercise than an actual policy pitch, but the thought of wholesale scrambling around T station names sorta makes my skin crawl.

I'm much too small-c conservative to think that all of this discussed change for change's sake is a good idea. Legacy station names inform their surroundings just as much as the other way around, and sometimes even more!

The station names (with the exceptions of the ones that are problematic) are fine just the way they are, thankyouverymuch.

Not me. I welcome change when I believe the change will be a long-term net positive, but I understand that many people are not like that. "small-c conservative" people often see change as a net negative in and of itself, and therefore a change would need to fulfill an even greater purpose to overcome this reflex, so it's totally understandable that you don't like this discussion.

For me, I get more of an icky feeling from seeing Boston Landing as a station name, knowing that it's corporate bullshit and not a good placemarker at all. There will never come a time when that neighborhood is referred to as Boston Landing more than Brighton. I embrace positive change, and if that station's name were changed to Brighton, I would love that.

 

[JumboBuc]

Did you react similarly when Essex became Chinatown?

Well I’m too young to have been conscious when that happened, but generally, yeah I would have preferred if the changes of Columbia to JFK/UMass and Auditorium to Hynes […] and Atlantic to Aquarium and et cetera had not happened. But they did, so now we have had those names for decades.

And btw the MBTA has a brief published Station Naming Policy document that sets some high-level guidelines for how future namings and re-namings should be done. Generally the guidelines make sense! Like: person or institution based names should be avoided, compound names should be avoided, and CR stops should be named for municipalities where they are unique but rapid transit and bus stops should be named for areas of smaller definition than a municipality. Plenty of existing station names (even relatively new ones like “Tufts Medical Center”) don’t fit with these current guidelines, and likely wouldn’t have been named that way if named since that policy was put in place.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Well I’m too young to have been conscious when that happened, but generally, yeah I would have preferred if the changes of Columbia to JFK/UMass and Auditorium to Hynes […] and Atlantic to Aquarium and et cetera had not happened. But they did, so now we have had those names for decades.

And btw the MBTA has a brief published Station Naming Policy document that sets some high-level guidelines for how future namings and re-namings should be done. Generally the guidelines make sense! Like: person or institution based names should be avoided, compound names should be avoided, and CR stops should be named for municipalities where they are unique but rapid transit and bus stops should be named for areas of smaller definition than a municipality. Plenty of existing station names (even relatively new ones like “Tufts Medical Center”) don’t fit with these current guidelines, and likely wouldn’t have been named that way if named since that policy was put in place.

Exactly. Tufts Medical Center (formerly New England Medical Center) station should have been named South Cove, Bay Village or Theater District, all longer standing geographic area names, rather than an institution name that has already changed once since the station opened in the late 80's.

 

[bigpicture7]

I agree that the posted naming guidelines seem to make sense. On a separate but related note, I just always found it funny/interesting that for at least 20 years, the newer redline cars with automated station announcements would say "Davis Square...[pause]...Tufts University" for Davis. Which is interesting because the announcement elaborates on what institution is nearby even though it's not officially in the station name. I always wondered whether that was a good thing and/or why there were so few other instances of that in the system. It seems that elaborative audio announcements is a whole other can of worms, yet may also offer a middle-ground in this station naming debate where the station names themselves can be kept simpler.

 

[Equilibria]

Anybody else on here find this entire thread -- I dunno -- kind of offensive? I understand that this is all more of a thought exercise than an actual policy pitch, but the thought of wholesale scrambling around T station names sorta makes my skin crawl.

I'm much too small-c conservative to think that all of this discussed change for change's sake is a good idea. Legacy station names inform their surroundings just as much as the other way around, and sometimes even more!

The station names (with the exceptions of the ones that are problematic) are fine just the way they are, thankyouverymuch.

MBTA station names are on the balance pretty temporary things. And as others have noted, there ain't nothing "legacy" about "Tufts Medical Center" or "Hynes Convention Center".

 

[HenryAlan]

I don't find the discussion offensive, but I do think significant caution should be exercised before making any actual name changes. It took me about 20 years to stop calling Hynes the former name of Auditorium, so I guess I'm kind of a small-c conservative on this issue.

The station names (with the exceptions of the ones that are problematic) are fine just the way they are, thankyouverymuch.

Just the same, there are some stations that I think just about everybody can agree are not well named. Boston Landing, in particular, screams out to be named Brighton. Tufts Medical Center is probably another good example of a station name that should be replaced.

Did you react similarly when Essex became Chinatown?

That's a slightly different issue, since it involved a consolidation of what had previously been considered two distinct stations. True, Boylston Station had already joined with Essex for naming purposes, but Essex never made sense as a unified name, given the street name change. I probably would have supported the change anyway, but it is not an example of one perfectly reasonable name being replaced by a different, perfectly reasonable name.

 

[RandomWalk]

Let’s return to naming Downtown Crossing Winter/Summer depending on the exit. It’s perfect for confusing the tourists.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Let’s return to naming Downtown Crossing Winter/Summer depending on the exit. It’s perfect for confusing the tourists.

I think the original Essex/Boylston naming on the Main Line was even better for confusing tourists. Two names for the same essential stop in different directions, plus one duplicated the name of the station on a different line, one block away. Brilliant placemaking

 

[ceo]

Let’s return to naming Downtown Crossing Winter/Summer depending on the exit. It’s perfect for confusing the tourists.

But only for the Orange Line. Rename the Red Line part back to Washington and our evil plan will be complete.

 

[Brattle Loop]

I agree that the posted naming guidelines seem to make sense. On a separate but related note, I just always found it funny/interesting that for at least 20 years, the newer redline cars with automated station announcements would say "Davis Square...[pause]...Tufts University" for Davis. Which is interesting because the announcement elaborates on what institution is nearby even though it's not officially in the station name. I always wondered whether that was a good thing and/or why there were so few other instances of that in the system. It seems that elaborative audio announcements is a whole other can of worms, yet may also offer a middle-ground in this station naming debate where the station names themselves can be kept simpler.

The #3 Red Line (01800 series) cars had a weird handful of those. I recall hearing "MIT Cambridge Center" (or something like that) at Kendall, a grafted-on "Mass Eye air Ear Infirmary" at Charles/MGH, and "Bayside Exposition Center" at JFK/UMass. I agree that it could be useful to have the automatic announcements add some local landmarks in lieu of overly-complex or overly-specific station names (Metro in Washington used to be particularly bad in stuffing everything they could think of into station names).

Tufts Medical Center is probably another good example of a station name that should be replaced.

This, I don't agree with. I don't think the station should have been named New England Medical Center to begin with, exactly because it's tied to a specific and since-changed institutional name. That said, it's unambiguously been named for the medical center for, what, 35+ years? I don't think it's a great idea to change the name, because it's liable to cause potentially-significant and avoidable confusion about how to access a major hospital. I kind of think the ship has sailed on this one, and changing it would be more trouble than it's worth, absent the medical center closing or undergoing another name change.

But only for the Orange Line. Rename the Red Line part back to Washington and our evil plan will be complete.

It really was a great example of why "name it for the cross street" wasn't a great policy to adhere to so strictly...

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

The #3 Red Line (01800 series) cars had a weird handful of those. I recall hearing "MIT Cambridge Center" (or something like that) at Kendall, a grafted-on "Mass Eye air Ear Infirmary" at Charles/MGH, and "Bayside Exposition Center" at JFK/UMass. I agree that it could be useful to have the automatic announcements add some local landmarks in lieu of overly-complex or overly-specific station names (Metro in Washington used to be particularly bad in stuffing everything they could think of into station names).

1982-85 Kendall station was named MIT/Cambridge Center officially. Change took effect same time Columbia was renamed JFK/UMass. They un-did the name change back to Kendall after 3 years due to (un)popular demand.