Biking in Boston

[Lurker]

http://safestreetsfund.org.previewc40.carrierzone.com/510/curbside-haiku/

 

[jass]

Sorry for the delay in reply again nobody.

Here we go then:

Whether it be the reasons behind why the 61st station was never installed, the winter shutdown plan, the website launch, the station locations, etc. You just don't have all the information but yet you want to say Alta is doing it wrong.

I don't need to be CEO of a bikeshare company to point out problems. If a station location is "wrong" I will point it out. Maybe Alta was thrown into a basement and locked up because Menino himself demanded the spot. That still doesn't mean it's a good location, regardless of who is pulling the strings.

The most recent example would be your thought that Alta could take trucks from Montreal. Montreal is run by PBSC, not Alta. There is no way that PBSC would just allow Alta to borrow it's trucks and drivers for free.

I know that. If you read what I wrote, youll see I said Alta only runs DC, Boston and future NYC.

I mention Montreal because it is also a Bixi system, like Toronto. That means their cranes are the same.

I also never said they can take a truck in Montreal for free. I said coordinate, which means a business deal. Montreal gets nothing out of having a crane truck parked all witner. Boston loses if they have to buy another one. Working together, an arrangement can be made in which costs are lowered for everyone.

Think of it like construction. Ever seen how deep bore subways are dug? Theres only like 5 of those machines in the entire world. The one digging around under Manhattan was previously used in Spain. It makes no sense for each city to buy their own, so one is rented out. Everyone wins.

Additionally, the drivers would need US crane operator certifications and US work permits. Lets just say that's a lot of red tape. Alta would have no need to have 5 guys in each city certified as crane operators, so even if they got PBSC trucks for free they'd still need to hire operators or bring in operators from their other cities.

Again, each city doesnt need 5 crane dudes, Alta can have them travel as needed (if it's cheaper). To launch NYC next year, theyre going to need more than 5 dudes.

Alta surely would share equipment between cities. But as you know the Boston stations are coming off the street now and the DC stations are being installed at the same time. So Alta needs a truck in each city, do you think DC would just allow Alta to finish up in Boston before making them install in DC? DC has stations ready and they want them on the ground and Boston has decided to pick up the stations and they want them picked up now.

Yes, I think it can be arranged. If removal is done over a 6 day period, it's not like DC is watching their stations rot (ironically, DC bought a streetcar 3 years ago theyve yet to deploy...)

You made a comment about your local ski resort operating on short notice so "why can't hubway". The fact is they can, they just decided not to based on all factors involved.

I agree.

I could get into the issues of customer service or what effects there are on the network of removing certain stations but I'll skip it. I'm willing to accept that all these things have been considered by people with the proper expertise and it would be pretty boring reading anyway.

You're saying the folks at Alta don't make mistakes...? It's not like they have a ten year track record you know.

I don't see how you can defend the decision to remove stations on the Mon-Wed before Thanksgiving, do nothing for 4 days, and then start removing again.

Especially when the weather is STILL in the 60's.

The system should have been shut down entirely on Monday December 5th, and removed over the next 5-10 days, with no rentals allowed.

You never answered my question on why you stated GPS was a big factor in Baltimore even though Bixi will have 2 GPS enabled systems before Baltimore launches? Maybe you have information I don't.

That information was from conversations with Baltimore in 2008-2009. I was not involved with the new rfp/contract, so maybe it changed. I believe their coordinator moved on since then.

Also, I wasn't trying to have a penis measuring contest either, I was trying to keep things in perspective. 30 station systems don't create much profit for a company like Bixi or B-cycle. You DID quote my statement that B-Cycle needed to win "Chicago, Vancouver or some other 75 station city" so I pointed out that they hadn't done that, they'd only won a small city.

Agreed

Lastly, are you saying you have never had a relationship with B-Cycle?

Who was BikeNow going to get it's bikes from? Or maybe you had no affiliation with BikeNow either?

I said I was never an employee of B-cycle. For the Boston proposal, B-cycle was only going to supply the stations and bikes as needed. Nothing else, not even financing. They were simply a vendor, one of many considered (including a local company based in Somerville). For their more recent endeavors, they've taken a more hands on approach with the RFPs and operations.

 

[jass]

Onto the news then.

Hubway expansion confirmed at 30 new stations next year. Quite frankly, well into the low side, but better than nothing. Brookline will get a grand total of 2 stations.

Hopefully, that increases quickly.

The 60-station, 600-bike Hubway system will shut down Wednesday night and reopen in March, weather permitting, when it will quickly expand - adding 30 stations and roughly 300 bicycles beyond Boston’s borders.

Cambridge officials said they hope to concentrate 20 stations in the most densely populated swaths of their city, and Somerville expects to usher in eight stations.

Back on the Boston side of the Charles, Brookline is working on two stations it hopes to open soon after the Cambridge and Somerville expansion.

http://articles.boston.com/2011-11-28/news/30451121_1_empty-stations-bikes-bicycle-sharing



The globe also ran an op-ed that is pretty ridiculous.

Boston’s bicycle share program — at first blush seemed one of those off-the-wall, goofy larks you’d find in cities like Portland, Ore., or San Francisco. The notion that meat-and-potatoes Tom Menino was behind it made me wonder whether those 18 years as Boston mayor had finally exacted their toll, especially when he started prattling on about this being the beginning of a new, green urban transportation system.

But now the bikes are heading inside for the winter and, taking stock of the last four months, the Hubway is starting to look less hare-brained and more like one of Menino’s best ideas ever.

http://bostonglobe.com/opinion/2011...ccess-story/WU11zHohR4w1k9X2oWbcxL/story.html

Seriously?

That's as ludicrous as claiming Al Gore invented the Internet.

Menino may have well enough supported it (and other recent bike projects) but to claim it was his idea...?

And this line

Despite the sorry experience Parisians had with their own bike share program, fears of mischief never materialized.

Is just absurd. Paris has always been the best and brightest example of successful bike share.

 

[JohnAKeith]

My little friend Remi loves the bike share program, he uses it whenever he is drunk and needs to go somewhere. He got stopped by the police a couple weeks ago and given a citation because he rode through a red / rouge light.

 

[Lurker]

Is just absurd. Paris has always been the best and brightest example of successful bike share.

When Paris' started their system they put many stations in unintegrated ethnic ghettos in an attempt to provide service and amenities to economically depressed areas. This worked as well as a cynic could expect. where the vicious anti-social youth trashed them, threw them in the Seine, stole them for export, and all sorts of other criminal activity. Once stations were relocated away the idiot neighborhoods too stupid to realize benefits, the problems with the system went away. But the initial problems were a black eye for an otherwise successful system.

I honestly think, aside from the density issue, this is why HubWay is reluctant to move into certain parts of Roxbury, Mattapan, and Dorchester. The 'this-is-why-the-rest-of-us-can't-have-nice-stuff-because-they-like-to smash-everything-teenage-thug-crowd' is probably on their minds and avoiding incidents, which provide boiler plate for the local press, before the rest of the system has a reputation for success, is likely desirable.

 

[whighlander]

When Paris' started their system they put many stations in unintegrated ethnic ghettos in an attempt to provide service and amenities to economically depressed areas....

I honestly think, aside from the density issue, this is why HubWay is reluctant to move into certain parts of Roxbury, Mattapan, and Dorchester. The 'this-is-why-the-rest-of-us-can't-have-nice-stuff-because-they-like-to smash-everything-teenage-thug-crowd' is probably on their minds and avoiding incidents, which provide boiler plate for the local press, before the rest of the system has a reputation for success, is likely desirable.

Lurk -- perhaps -- But the real reason I think has more to do with the user's lifestyle -- sharing bikes is not really of major value to people who work in bluecollar, physical labor jobs

somwhat like ZipCar -- Bike sharing works best with;
1) Tourists
2) Students
3) work-at-home young urban professionals
4) ?

None of the above really occur in large quantities is Dorchester, Roxburry, Hyde Park, Mattapan

 

[Lurker]

Bikeshare is a low cost alternative means of transportation for the working poor. It's really beneficial to them to be able to avoid the need for more expensive car ownership or be limited to the hours of operation or routes of public transit. It's really not a blue collar vs. white collar thing anymore and arguably many blue collar jobs pay more than white collar jobs these days. It's the service industry jobs which generally pay poorly based on the lack of need for any kind of skilled labor.

Unfortunately, usually to the proud to be underclass punk kids, the bikes are seen as a symbol of outsiders and become a target for peer reinforced stupidity through vandalism. To those not reveling in being a worthless thug in these neighborhoods, having a low cost and high freedom of movement transportation alternative probably would be highly attractive.

 

[whighlander]

Bikeshare is a low cost alternative means of transportation for the working poor. It's really beneficial to them to be able to avoid the need for more expensive car ownership or be limited to the hours of operation or routes of public transit. It's really not a blue collar vs. white collar thing anymore and arguably many blue collar jobs pay more than white collar jobs these days. It's the service industry jobs which generally pay poorly based on the lack of need for any kind of skilled labor.

Unfortunately, usually to the proud to be underclass punk kids, the bikes are seen as a symbol of outsiders and become a target for peer reinforced stupidity through vandalism. To those not reveling in being a worthless thug in these neighborhoods, having a low cost and high freedom of movement transportation alternative probably would be highly attractive.

Lurk -- when I said Blue Collar -- I was not necessarily talking about assembly lines (largely gone) -- but rather low education level requiired services (janitor, McD server, delivery trucks, loadig dock workers, etc.)

This was to predominantly differentiate their demographics from that of the young professional / student types who do most of the biking around Boston / Cambridge and often have problems with parking the bike

many of the 'Blue Collars" work in a place where parking for a personal bike is not a major concern

 

[jass]

I honestly think, aside from the density issue, this is why HubWay is reluctant to move into certain parts of Roxbury, Mattapan, and Dorchester. The 'this-is-why-the-rest-of-us-can't-have-nice-stuff-because-they-like-to smash-everything-teenage-thug-crowd' is probably on their minds and avoiding incidents, which provide boiler plate for the local press, before the rest of the system has a reputation for success, is likely desirable.

I dont think its a violence issue at all. Theres bikeshare in Mexico City, and I havent read anything about vandalism...just expansion.

Also, right now they have a limited number of stations available, so it makes sense to focus exclusively on the core.

Even at 100 stations, youre just filling in gaps, geographic expansion would hurt the system. Id rather stick 3 more stations in the BU area rather than Roxbury because theyll get much more use, for example.

On top of that, the demographics arent ideal down there. Students and tourists are a big consideration. Annual (commuter) memberships are great, but when a tourist takes a bike out for 2 hours, thats where the money is.

Have Joe commuter pay once a year and ride for 29 minutes every day is a great social benefit, but zero additional revenue.


And one last point, when you hit poorer areas, you have to deal with the fact that a credit card is required, which many dont have access to.




One last thing, I mentioned that the 2012 30 station expansion is quite small.

In comparison, DC has a 120 station expansion ongoing from this past october to the next one. They added two stations just yesterday.

 

[HenryAlan]

There is another constraint against expanding to more outlying neighborhoods, quite independent of who lives there or how much money they have. People in Roxbury or JP, if they see cycling as a key element of their transit needs, will likely own a bike. I think bike share is a great idea, but I don't really see it working in a place like Roslindale or Dorchester. I use a bike quite a bit for transportation, but mostly for longer distances, and I want it to be a better bike or, at a minimum, one that is more precisely suited to my own personal needs. Bike share is mostly for the more casual user, not the every day commuter.

 

[jass]

There is another constraint against expanding to more outlying neighborhoods, quite independent of who lives there or how much money they have. People in Roxbury or JP, if they see cycling as a key element of their transit needs, will likely own a bike. I think bike share is a great idea, but I don't really see it working in a place like Roslindale or Dorchester. I use a bike quite a bit for transportation, but mostly for longer distances, and I want it to be a better bike or, at a minimum, one that is more precisely suited to my own personal needs. Bike share is mostly for the more casual user, not the every day commuter.

Bike share isnt about 10 mile commutes. Its about short trips. Its about finding yourself at x and your friends are at y, two miles away. Your bike is at home. Youre not sure what bus to take. Thats where bike share comes in. Or even if you do know what bus youyre taking, but nextbus says its 26 minutes away. Take a shared bike and be there in 9.

Its about one way trips, where you cant say "accio bike" and summon your $2,000 friend.

And if you do want to commute, what if theres no where to store the bike at the office? What if you dont want to worry about theft?

 

[Ron Newman]

People in Roxbury or JP, if they see cycling as a key element of their transit needs, will likely own a bike.

That's just as true for Cambridge and Somerville, but we're both getting Hubway next spring.

 

[HenryAlan]

That's just as true for Cambridge and Somerville, but we're both getting Hubway next spring.

Maybe it's true, but there is another difference, which is density and students. The areas of Cambridge and Sommerville that will get stations are higher density than the outer neighborhoods of Boston. And they also have large student populations. Suppose they put a Hubway station in Roslindale Square. Where does a casual biker go from there? If there was another similar area within a miles distance, and there was a large younger/more transient population, I could see it, but where is the next station?

 

[Ron Newman]

A Hubway station in Rozzie Square would actually get heavy use, from people using it to reach either Forest Hills station or the Centre/South Street commercial district of Jamaica Plain.

Obviously you first need Hubway in JP before you bring it to Roslindale.

 

[Shepard]

Brookline is, for some reason, taking a very conservative approach to this. Two stations, one in Coolidge Corner and one in Brookline Village, both to come online sometime after Cambraville does. I'm not sure exactly why - whether they can't find local sponsors, don't want to dip too far into town coffers, or what. In any case, I believe this is shooting the Brookline expansion in the foot. At the very least, stations should be additionally placed at St Mary's, Washington Square, JFK Crossing and Brookline Hills/BHS. I think of Hubway as a largely local transportation option, and without anywhere to go locally, what's the point?

Brookline would also be helped by (Boston) stations at Cleveland Circle and Harvard Ave/Comm (what's taken so long on the latter?)

 

[HenryAlan]

A Hubway station in Rozzie Square would actually get heavy use, from people using it to reach either Forest Hills station or the Centre/South Street commercial district of Jamaica Plain.

Obviously you first need Hubway in JP before you bring it to Roslindale.

I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but as you point out, it needs to be in JP first. Incrementally, I suspect we will eventually see Hubway moving out in that direction, particularly following the Southwest Corridor, both for Orange Line and Lalemont Trail access. But I don't think there is enough money to do all that at once. My argument is that the South and Western neighborhoods of Boston don't fit into the initial business model of high station concentration enjoying immediate and significant utilization. Zip Car was the same way -- it took some time to reach JP and Roslindale, I'm not sure if it has reached West Roxbury at all.

It's a basic business principle. Invest your money where the highest pay-off will be. Only after you have maxed out that opportunity, invest in everything else, up until the point that the incremental investment loses money. I don't think Hubway would lose money in JP and Roslindale, but they will make more in Cambridge, which is why they are going there first.

 

[jass]

Broward County B-Cycle (Ft Lauderdale) launched tomorrow with an atrocious system map, as theyve decided to spread 20 stations over an enormous area.

http://broward.bcycle.com/

However, it reminds me that there is still no hubway-destroying snow in Boston, and the November removal was still extra-lame.

DC has installed a further 3 bike-share stations in the past 3 days, putting them at around 130 stations.

 

[bbfen]

However, it reminds me that there is still no hubway-destroying snow in Boston, and the November removal was still extra-lame.

As if anyone knows when the weather's going to hell. Had they left them out and we got an early Nor'Easter, there would've been bitching at the lack of planning. Good grief.

(I'm frankly glad they're gone for a while. They seem to attract a clinically retarded subset of foreigners who're a menace.)

 

[metasyntactic]

For some good news, Brookline just voted to approve the financial plan and contract for Hubway: http://brookline.patch.com/articles/hubway-bike-network-extending-to-brookline-by-spring

 

[Shepard]

Great -Brookline will have 4 stops. Coolidge Corner and Brookine Village are definite, and I'm guessing the other two will go to Washington Square and JFK Crossing (St Mary's could also be in the running but already has several Boston Hubway stops nearby).

In other news, I came to an interesting realization that there's now a complete bicycle infrastructure (lanes, or signs/sharrows) all the way from Newton Centre to the Public Garden: Beacon to Kenmore and then Comm Ave through Back Bay. The only small gap is along Beacon through the commercial strip of Cleveland Circle.