Boston 2024

[Semass]

Personally, I never cared if he built the entire thing himself, but that's a hugely great PR move. He's taken one of the anti crowd's favorite points and cut it off at the knees.

I expect he is taking a very narrow view on this recusal. How many hotels and other facilities will be built in the next ten years on the backs of these olympics that will not house athletes or events? Don't worry about Suffolk. They will make plenty of money off this. His declaration is pretty hollow.

 

[underground]

If Fish's interest is making money off the Olympic related construction, he sure blew it by submitting a bid that relies heavily on existing facilities.

Worst. Profiteer. Ever.

 

[Semass]

It is oft repeated that Boston does not have enough hotel rooms to be a "world class" convention city. I expect many hotels will be proposed in the very near future to accommodate the "olympic" need. I believe IOC has a minimum threshold, though I don't know what it is. Developers will attach the olympic moniker on every non-office project from here on out to try to get a piece of the action. I am certain that Suffolk will be an eager participant.

 

[underground]

And again, if Fish's goal is making money, why reuse so many existing facilities? Why reuse Harvard Stadium, and not propose something completely new, or even propose knocking it down and building something new in it's spot so Fish could double dip? I mean, we need what, ~25 facilities strictly for sporting events? And he's proposing that only the athlete village, stadium, and aquatic center will be new? We're supposed to believe he's driven solely by greed to get the Olympics. Looks like he's only about 3/25ths greedy.

I mean, seriously, I don't expect that Suffolk will stop business during the lead up to the games, but what's with the smear job on Fish? It's not based on logic. There's plenty of cases to make against the Olympics without going ad hominem on it's main backer.

 

[Equilibria]

It is oft repeated that Boston does not have enough hotel rooms to be a "world class" convention city. I expect many hotels will be proposed in the very near future to accommodate the "olympic" need. I believe IOC has a minimum threshold, though I don't know what it is. Developers will attach the olympic moniker on every non-office project from here on out to try to get a piece of the action. I am certain that Suffolk will be an eager participant.

The IOC indeed has a minimum threshold, and Boston already either meets it or has projects in the pipeline to do so. I'm on the train, or I would post a source.

 

[Semass]

Hosting the Olympics is more than venues and transportation. There will be lots of projects all over the city. If BCEC now goes forward with the 1000 key "headquarters" hotel it has wanted and Suffolk builds it, is it an Olympic project? Not officially. Would it advance and get a hotel operator and financing because of the bid. Probably. Could he say with a straight face that it was going to happen all along and that it is not an olympic project? Yup.

There will be many of these non olympic-olympic projects. The developers will proclaim to the financiers that the economics will work out because of that 2 week period and the need of the international media/jet set/weird pin collectors. You may have said that the olympics is not a monolith. You are correct.

 

[paperless paul]

It is oft repeated that Boston does not have enough hotel rooms to be a "world class" convention city. I expect many hotels will be proposed in the very near future to accommodate the "olympic" need. I believe IOC has a minimum threshold, though I don't know what it is. Developers will attach the olympic moniker on every non-office project from here on out to try to get a piece of the action. I am certain that Suffolk will be an eager participant.

The criticism about "hotels to be a convention city" is about hotels directly adjacent to the Convention Center, not hotels in the metro area overall. And this need is already being addressed with many hotels being built / developed and planned near the Convention Center using 'quasi' public tax money for finance.

No developer or financier would ever build a hotel, or office or anything else, only for the three weeks of the Olympics. Except for the Olympics-financed sport-specific venues and transit improvements that are temporary or have a planned 'legacy'.

 

[datadyne007]

The Angry Architect weighs in:

"This being said, Boston city’s size and associated infrastructure does not match that of the UK’s capital, so the task in hand is an entirely different prospect. The road ahead is a long one — a veritable n-athlon — peppered with architectural, financial, and bureaucratic hurdles. The decision to award the city this bid appears to be a large leap of faith on the part of the United States Olympic Committee, and many will question this choice in the years to come.

But then again, what better time could there be to attempt a gigantic leap than at the Olympics? Time will tell if this city can take the gold…"

http://architizer.com/blog/leap-of-faith-boston-bids-to-host-the-2024-olympics/

 

[The EGE]

Let's stop pretending that, Olympics or no, we will ever see a Back Bay-BCEC service. It is not only a poor idea, but it actively hurts other better ideas.

It would have to cross every single important track on the southside. At least one of the Worcester Line tracks, crossing the 3 NEC tracks, running along the Southampton Loop track, crossing the Fairmount Line, and the Old Colony mainline. (There was talk early on about a bridge over the last two, but the Bypass Road and the Cabot Yard leads make that nigh impossible.)

So let's look at all the current and potential projects that interferes with.

Agricultural Branch (Framingham-Northborough-Clinton) commuter service
Increased Worcester frequencies
Inland Route/Springfield service
Montreal service
Riverside DMU
Increased NEC Amtrak service
Increased Providence Line service
South Coast Rail
Widett Circle layover
Fairmount/Indigo DMU
Foxboro service
Franklin Line extensions to Milford or Woonsocket
CapeFLYER
Buzzards Bay commuter service
Any hope of additional Old Colony slots

And all of that is in addition to interfering with the entirety of current southside commuter rail and Amtrak operations.

If you want to get people from Back Bay to the Waterfront, get more of the Logan Express buses and start talking about things like Herald Street bus lanes that don't impact 40,000 daily commuters.

 

[underground]

Could he say with a straight face that it was going to happen all along and that it is not an olympic project? Yup.

So what you're saying is that Fish went through a wildly elaborate and costly Olympic proposal process that got his name dragged through the mud, all to guarantee himself the construction contract on a couple of hotels that are being built anyway and that he'd probably be building anyway? That thinking just doesn't add up. The sheer economics don't even add up.

 

[Semass]

So what you're saying is that Fish went through a wildly elaborate and costly Olympic proposal process that got his name dragged through the mud, all to guarantee himself the construction contract on a couple of hotels that are being built anyway and that he'd probably be building anyway? That thinking just doesn't add up. The sheer economics don't even add up.

To me the thinking of simple civic pride doesn't add up either.

 

[JumboBuc]

He stated 70-75% existing which means 6-8 new venues, not 3. In addition to the ones you mentioned don't forget equestrian, beach volleyball, etc.

70-75% of venues will be on college campuses, not in existing structures. The TD Garden, for example, is not on a college campus but is existing. There alternatively could also be some facilities (aquatics center?) that are new and not existing but included in the 75% on college campuses.

The "venues" for equestrian and beach volleyball will hardly be anything more than some temporary bleachers set up on the Common or in Franklin Park.

Didn't there used to be a cycling track at Wonderland way back in the day? It'd be fun to see the velodrome go there given the site's history.

It's been written that Tufts has expressed interest in building an aquatics center. I wonder how serious that discussion in. Tufts certainly needs a new pool and has been discussing building one for a while, and I can see how they could make it fit into their athletics complex. I find it hard to believe, however, that the bid would want to locate one of it's main facilities way up in Medford even if there will be a Green Line stop just steps away by 2024.

 

[cbrett]

Forgive me if this was already discussed, but given the perceived lack of hotel space and the major contributions already given by the colleges, what is the possibility of dorms being used to house the athletes? Boston already has thousands of vacant dorms during the summer, so if they really want to keep costs down then it makes sense to take advantage of that. Dangling potential transportation improvements to the campuses used would be a win-win for the city, college, and olympics.

 

[George_Apley]

So what you're saying is that Fish went through a wildly elaborate and costly Olympic proposal process that got his name dragged through the mud, all to guarantee himself the construction contract on a couple of hotels that are being built anyway and that he'd probably be building anyway? That thinking just doesn't add up. The sheer economics don't even add up.

To me the thinking of simple civic pride doesn't add up either.

I don't see why it needs to be an argument... Suffolk will make boat loads of money off of development in the coming years, Olympics or no. I don't see how it could remotely be considered a bad thing if a construction company makes money off of construction projects that better the community overall.

 

[underground]

To me the thinking of simple civic pride doesn't add up either.

I never said anything remotely close to that.

 

[rinserepeat]

I'm still on the fence about the olympics coming here. I have no doubts that the city (and region) can pull it off - the question in my mind is if it's really worth it.

Tourism: Boston has a lot of domestic tourism, but not a lot of international tourism. I'm wondering if state officials are hoping to use this event to draw more international attention as we know most cities that host experience a boost in the years after the games (but not during).

Transportation: I'm speculating that Walsh is supporting this effort because he's probably thinking things in the pipeline would be pushed up a lot faster, and may force the commonwealth to address other issues - especially with funding for the MBTA. Typically the legislature likes to drag their feet on funding - and the region and massachusetts as a whole really needs to seriously rethink transportation for the 21st century. The thing I worry about here is if bike infrastructure gets neglected.

Franklin Park and the surrounding area needs a lot of help. Any event there would end up improving the park and may force the city to really look at the neighborhood. My worry here is that with the short timeframe we might just get a nicer franklin park and they'd simply push people out of the neighborhood instead of dealing with underlying issues.

Widett Circle bugs me - I like seeing industry in the city - but maybe they can relocate the food distribution businesses nearby so they still have access to CSX (is this still in use?), the highway, and the seaport.

Any thoughts?

 

[George_Apley]

I'm still on the fence about the olympics coming here. I have no doubts that the city (and region) can pull it off - the question in my mind is if it's really worth it.

Tourism: Boston has a lot of domestic tourism, but not a lot of international tourism. I'm wondering if state officials are hoping to use this event to draw more international attention as we know most cities that host experience a boost in the years after the games (but not during).

Is this true? I thought we had tons of international tourism.

Transportation: I'm speculating that Walsh is supporting this effort because he's probably thinking things in the pipeline would be pushed up a lot faster, and may force the commonwealth to address other issues - especially with funding for the MBTA. Typically the legislature likes to drag their feet on funding - and the region and massachusetts as a whole really needs to seriously rethink transportation for the 21st century. The thing I worry about here is if bike infrastructure gets neglected.

What sort of bike infrastructure are you looking for? The master plan for cycle tracks coming down the pipe is pretty comprehensive. I don't see why the Olympics would stop that from happening.

Franklin Park and the surrounding area needs a lot of help. Any event there would end up improving the park and may force the city to really look at the neighborhood. My worry here is that with the short timeframe we might just get a nicer franklin park and they'd simply push people out of the neighborhood instead of dealing with underlying issues.

That's something to be vigilant of. Walsh seems interested in community involvement with gentrification processes. We'll see how that works out in Dudley in next four or five years. If we could tackle a new way to look at "projects" housing as a result of this event, that would be great.

Widett Circle bugs me - I like seeing industry in the city - but maybe they can relocate the food distribution businesses nearby so they still have access to CSX (is this still in use?), the highway, and the seaport.

They'll need to find a place nearby that allows them to get their deliveries (mostly from trucks I think) and distribute them to their clients without raising the prices too much.

 

[whighlander]

Sure it does. Eminent domain takings cannot be conducted without the city. Mayor Walsh is a public official and any time he spends on this issue is public time. Any time the BRA spends on this is public time. Promises of city and state resources like police, fire, and EMS are promises of public resources paid for by the tax payer. Those documents need to be opened so we can see what was promised and to whom. Not to sound like Riff but what are they hiding? if they are so proud of their bid, then it should be public.

Semass -- in these days of post Paris -- the chance of seeing anything related to Emergency Plans is closer to nill than if you asked Coca Cola for their formula

But in general -- you knee jerk antis need to wait until something is released to the public otherwise you sound like the ignoramuses who were trashing the BOS chances with the USOC even 1 day prior to the announcement -- by the way apparently the vote was UNANIMOUS for BOS

And as for the inferiority complex from NYC -- they can kiss 2028, 2032, 2036, 2040, 2044 good by if Boston wins

 

[whighlander]

I think the only possibilities are the 3 I bolded. Nothing else is studied/planned/designed/funded which means it doesn't stand a chance in hell of completing in 9 years time.

I would love to hear that red-blue is planned/designed far enough that they could pick it up and run, but I really don't think it will happen. Especially lacking funds.

Shepard;222592]So here's an important question: What can we realistically expect in terms of transit and other regional improvements over the next nine years?

At a minimum, I believe that the city/regional mobility required for the Olympics would need the following four:

as my edit per Fattony:

• 1) South Station expansion to support a network of southside DMUs - especially BBY-Seapor
• 3) Finish Green Line Somerville extension
• 4) A real network of dedicated bus lanes on key routes and arterials
  

Fattony -- I think you are mostly on target for major projects

However, there are a few key venues on the map [courtesy of the Herald]

not easily reachable by the T today:

• Main Olympic Stadium and Flame Caldera is planned for Widdet Circle -- then there might be an opportunity for DMU's or even electric MUs to run from South Station through the existing yards with some sort of station construction
• Aquatic Complex @ Beacon Park / Turnpike Alston-Brighton -- the same solution build a temporary station and run MU's out of South Station & Olympic Flame Station
• BCEC for -- same solution MU's from Olympic Flame to BCEC Station
  

The best of course would be to electrify the relevant pieces of ROW and leave that as a lasting legacy with the opportunity to replace the temporary stations with more permanent ones to celebrate Mayor Walsh's true legacy -- BOSTON 2030

PS: I suggest that the City conduct an international design competition for an Olympic Flame Caldera Plaza as the permanent monument to the Boston Olympics

 

[datadyne007]

Is this true? I thought we had tons of international tourism.

No, it is not true. It is absolutely false. Boston has incredible numbers of international tourism. It is undoubtedly an international destination. During my time working at the CambridgeSide Galleria and Faneuil Hall Marketplace/Marketplace Center, I probably met people/swiped a credit card from a majority of countries in the world.