Boston 2024

What about Newton Commonwealth Golf Course, Granite Links Quincy (Awesome Skyline views)? or TPC Norton? for Golf?

I could see TPC hosting it, but unlikely. First dibs will almost certainly go to The Country Club (which according to the Boston 2024 team is already planned to get it), due to its history and quality.

For mountain biking, couldn't you have parking at Blue hills at the trailside, museum, the lots around ponkapoag pond and houghton's pond, and along the roadways through the blue hills? perhaps you could have satellite parking at local companies office parks along route 128 corridor by Dedham and off route 24 and at Legacy Place Mall and South bay.. with shuttle busses to the start-finish line viewing areas. I think Blue Hills has enough varying terrain to be a fabulous mountain biking course. - could have shuttle busses from Readville Commuter Rail as well. And maybe temporary silver line bus routes from Downtown....via 28/138....Other possibilities for mountain biking would be WOMPATUCK state park - Hingham --- A combination of Bear Brook/Pawtuckaway park near Manchester NH, combination of Lynn woods and Breakheart Reservation c ourse with a on road connection over route 1 (Essex Street) I think it is? ---- Middlesex Fells course. .(Winchester-Medford-Stoneham).... - perhaps a course up in Carlisle Concord using various conservation land trails and Great Brook farm with a couple back road connections. ----or you could do western mass for mountain biking including Beartown Forest, October Moutnain Forest, Mount Washington Forest or Mount Greylock Forest. Wachusett Mountain Reservation and a combination with Leominster State Forest would be another option. Finally, a last option would be the Tully Trail in North Central Mass by Tully Campground.

I'm pretty sure you just suggested every single hill in Eastern MA and Southern NH. It should be pointed out that the farther out the venue, the longer it'd take to reach the venue from the Olympic Village, and the less likely it'll be used. Blue Hills seems like the best option to me, but I don't know the technical requirements for a mountain biking course.

I still think the aquatics center , velodrome , and tennis complex should be built at Harvard along with field hockey at the current stadium (and the venues should be all reused after the games by the university and public rather than torn down. ) (I feel that is a waste of resources and $$$)

Temporary stadiums are also generally easier (read: cheaper) to build and take down than permanent stadiums are to build. The thing Boston 2024 needs to avoid is the legacy of leaving behind white elephants. If Harvard plans on keeping Blodgett Pool, it has no use for the temporary aquatics center it will be lending its land for. Current plans also make use of Harvard's tennis facility, but there's no way Harvard needs three show courts. The only way it uses the show courts is if they retrofit it for hockey, basketball, or as a replacement for Palmer-Dixon or Dillon or what-have-you. Harvard has no use for a velodrome unless there's some way to adapt it and replace Gordon Indoor Track.

Why not use Moakely Park for Archery and Shooting??? (Temporary venues that could be torn down after)

Shooting, maybe. Archery, maybe. Both, probably not. The footprint of Moakley isn't large enough for both from what I can tell. Also, if they're using the Bayside site as an Olympic village, Moakley will likely be incorporated into the village as a training ground.

I would also like to see Fenway have 20,000 seats added along right field and in the bleachers and used for the primary soccer venue (Soccer has been done well at fenway before, it would be awesome feel to the atosphere.) along with Baseball and Softball. a softball venue (Temporary ) could be built @ Moakley park as well. as the archery/shooting venue.

If you can convince me that the following three things are true, then it would be feasible:

  1. The field at Fenway can actually hold a 68m by 105m soccer field, including the auxiliary buffer area as suggested by FIFA.
  2. Without disturbing the aformentioned pitch footprint, 20,000 seats can actually be added temporarily and to current safety and ADA standards.
  3. Such an alignment at Fenway is better than simply using Gillette Stadium.

I'm pretty certain none of those three things are true. Gillette Stadium will most assuredly serve as the soccer venue in the Boston area. The remaining soccer games will be played in other cities since there is a greater inventory of adequate stadiums.

I would like to see a Beach Volleyball venue built next to piers park as part of the East Boston Waterfront Project (Redevelopment) instead of the common. - could reuse after as retail space or what not. -

Why is the common a bad idea to you? I mean I never would've thought to put it on the Common (I actually would've used Moakley for beach volleyball), but I guess I don't really see why it wouldn't work.

I would like to see Equestrian @ the brownfield site in South Boston by City Point ---could be cleaned up and turned into a park after the games. Either that or Suffolk Downs to save suffolk downs and create an assembly row type development there with retail, hotels, condos. Maybe an athletes village there? (Right on the Blue Line)

Suffolk Downs can't accommodate the cross-country course required for the eventing event. London's course was 5.7 km long, for reference.

Is there any way we can make the Olympic Stadium permanent? if we do this right? And also find a place to move the companies that would be displaced by the venue? I think that would be best for everyone! It just seems silly to build a stadium and not use it after. Why not use it for something at least if not a stadium use it as a community rec center or something --- or just use it as a stadium and develop a assembly row type project around it. - have the revs move there after the games..

Also why not add a retractable roof to the widett circle stadium so we could host a super bowl --add enough seats so we could host a super bowl, wrestlemania, NCAA championships, World Cup events...and more. as well as regular concerts. Make it a destination. Not a temporary place.

So are you suggesting that the Olympic Stadium be both converted for the Revs and still Super Bowl capable? You can't have both. If the Revs move out of Foxborough it'll be to a 30k seat stadium. Super Bowls require stadiums with 70k+ seats. The only two teams in the Boston area that could possibly use a 70k+ seat stadium are the Patriots and Boston College; the latter being somewhat of a stretch. I figure the Patriots are fine where they are now. As it stands, World Cup events would be hosted at Gillette anyway so it presents no push for keeping the Olympic Stadium in full post-games. Also, I don't think wrestlemania would be worth making any temporary stadium permanent.

Now, if they follow through with downsizing the stadium for the Revs, it's still a 30k seat stadium that could make for the best outdoor concert facility inside 128. But I wouldn't get my hopes up for hosting a Super Bowl any time soon.
 
Also why not add a retractable roof to the widett circle stadium so we could host a super bowl --add enough seats so we could host a super bowl, wrestlemania, NCAA championships, World Cup events...and more. as well as regular concerts. Make it a destination. Not a temporary place.

Imagine the march to the stadium you could do down "Olympic rowe" from south station for revs games. That would be awesome.
 
One can download the various documents as pdf files here.

http://www.2024boston.org/docs

A very quick look at several areas.

Boston2024 concedes nowhere near enough hotel rooms for spectators (may not be able to use dorms for spectators because of non-profit status of colleges(?) and I believe dorms are going to be used for Olympic officials) so the proposal is to have spectators rent student off-campus apartments.


Excerpts from a chart of Public Transportation capacity near various venues.

South Station area (named Midtown) Current (as is) capacity / future capacity with improvements + Olympics usage, value is three hour peak capacity
Commuter rail 52,000 / 125,000
Heavy rail 129,000 / 194,000
Light rail -- / --
Buses 26,000 / 46,000

TD Garden (North Station)
Commuter rail 36,000 / 159,000
Heavy rail 81,000 / 161,000
Light rail 43,000 / 93,000
Buses -- / --

I am very skeptical that either South Station or North Station can accommodate that capacity growth for CR and HR, particularly with security screening.
 
125,000 + 159,000 = 284,000 passengers in three hours. Metro-North carries 286,000 daily passengers, of which about 270,000 probably go into Grand Central.

Grand Central has 67 tracks served by 44 platforms that are pretty full ((though the 4-track Park Avenue tunnel is the actual capacity constraint). An expanded South Station is planned to have 20 or 21 tracks with 11 platforms. North Station is very very difficult, if not outright impossible due to the Leverett Circle Connector and the Tobin loop, beyond 6 platforms and 12 tracks.

Even if you built the North-South Rail Link as 4 tracks, with all the portals to allow two-thirds of all service to be pushed through it, there is absolutely no way that could work.

The subway capacities look highly suspicious too; I'll look at those later.
 
Why the fuck do they have to ape new york and call this blighted, dead area that already has a fucking name that sounds much cooler (newmarket) "midtown"??? Oh wait, that's because they want to obliterate most of newmarket to redevelop it. I hate the name, and I also hate that they plan on getting rid of one of the last remaining light industrial areas. Sure, the area is ugly, but I feel bad for all the people who work in those businesses in whose jobs will be lost. Mostly members of the working class, and after the Olympics it will just be more construction of offices and houses for rich people.
 
"Midtown" is sort of an unnecessary re-branding (and sort of already claimed by the also unnecessary re-branding of the "Ladder District," going even further into some sort of re-branding rabbit hole), but I don't think of that area as Newmarket. I put Newmarket on the other side of the Pike; bound roughtly by Melnea Cass, Mass Ave, 93, and Boston St.
 
Why the fuck do they have to ape new york and call this blighted, dead area that already has a fucking name that sounds much cooler (newmarket) "midtown"??? Oh wait, that's because they want to obliterate most of newmarket to redevelop it. I hate the name, and I also hate that they plan on getting rid of one of the last remaining light industrial areas. Sure, the area is ugly, but I feel bad for all the people who work in those businesses in whose jobs will be lost. Mostly members of the working class, and after the Olympics it will just be more construction of offices and houses for rich people.

To quote an earlier comment

They are committed to replacing/relocating any displaced jobs at their own expense. They specifically mentioned the food processing coop at Widett Circle being relocated, potentially to the Marine Industrial Park with superior transportation access than they have now, at the insistence of the Mayor and at their own expense.
 
"Midtown" is sort of an unnecessary re-branding (and sort of already claimed by the also unnecessary re-branding of the "Ladder District," going even further into some sort of re-branding rabbit hole), but I don't think of that area as Newmarket. I put Newmarket on the other side of the Pike; bound roughtly by Melnea Cass, Mass Ave, 93, and Boston St.

Yeah that's true I was melding it into the wrong geographic area. It's definitely not Newmarket. But yes, it does not need to be rebranded. Widett is a fine name, too.
 
To quote an earlier comment

To quote an earlier comment

Quote:
They are committed to replacing/relocating any displaced jobs at their own expense. They specifically mentioned the food processing coop at Widett Circle being relocated, potentially to the Marine Industrial Park with superior transportation access than they have now, at the insistence of the Mayor and at their own expense.

Sure, but clearly the long term plan here is to clear out everything along Old Colony, the construction and cherry-picker yards, etc. And I have my doubts about relocating stuff to the Seaport. Probably a much worse commute for the workers as well. I'm just not necessarily a fan of the assumption that shiny and clean is always best. Our city is losing diversity rapidly.
 
Sure, but clearly the long term plan here is to clear out everything along Old Colony, the construction and cherry-picker yards, etc. And I have my doubts about relocating stuff to the Seaport. Probably a much worse commute for the workers as well. I'm just not necessarily a fan of the assumption that shiny and clean is always best. Our city is losing diversity rapidly.

Its something like 80 acres or more. If we hold feet to the fire to make it middle-class housing then Widett or Midtown or whatever can be a boon to diversity and the middle/lower classes.

I agree it would be a shame for it to go exactly the same way that the Seaport has, but it is not on the water. It is walkable to the SE and Southie, not to the Financial District.
 
In their presentation doc Key Venue Plan, page 6, where they talk about assembling parcels for the Widett stadium, they discuss either expanded authorities for an existing agency or agencies, or creation of a new targeted agency. Then on page 7 they reiterate “Boston 2024 anticipates proposal of Olympic legislation that would facilitate permitting and entitlement.”

The construction challenges on the Widett site don’t leave a lot of time for what happens between the enabling legislation and commencement of construction. I suppose some portion of the engineering work could coincide with the legislative work, if someone is willing to risk paying for some very expensive engineering work just to learn it’s going to Suffolk Downs. But the Legislature will need to get cracking on expanding the duties/powers of some existing agency or creating a new one. Can our legislature get moving fast, with a new governor and a deficit looming?

At Suffolk Downs, I think there is just one owner entity, with a defunct business and a defunct plan A (casino) on saving it. I find it entirely feasible that Boston 2024 could get an option on that site well ahead of the enabling legislation under discussion, then assign it to the pertinent entity later. At Widett, I am less optimistic they could really do that with the T, City, and the private owners. Probably the latter group would be the easiest, and Walsh is on board, but could the T do such a thing without legislative go-ahead? If they could, would they, without specifics on where they’re getting relocated and who’s paying for that?

I realize there’s a ton of issues to switching to Suffolk downs, it radically alters Mancredi’s concepts of Olympic Avenue, has its own wetlands challenges, and so on. I haven’t forgotten that it spans two cities, but Revere wanted the casino so I’m guessing they’d welcome a plan B. They seem defeatist since the casino defeat about creating one for themselves.

This Olympics bid has been presuming a lot of infrastructure help from the state, and on a tight timeline. Yes, previously committed work, but we’ve all seen how long the state can allow a previous commitment to slip. I think it makes sense for Boston 2024 to be floating the Suffolk Downs option, it just looks a lot more realistic on the political side. So many of the other venues need little or no help from the state in the near future. Some will probably need little or no help from the state ever (archery at MIT, the Garden). Widett needs that legislation real soon, I would think.

Speaking of politics, Curtatone on the Somerville velodrome:

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/...yor-boston-2024s-velodrome-proposal-wont-cut/
 
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Good for Curtatone. You can support the Olympics without rolling over for them. Assembly might actually be a good place for a Velodrome, but Somerville gets to have their say.

The proximity to the T in that site plan is pretty absurd. If you are going to build anything that close to the T and the water, don't make it a velodrome.
 
Every time I look at the rendering of the beach volleyball stadium on the Common I cringe. That is going to get massive backlash.

How could anyone on the committee not recognize the Common as sacred territory?
 
I'd love to know where the Red Line maintenance facility moves to if they do indeed plan to axe Cabot.
 
One thing to bear in mind is that I believe the Olympics likes to have major new venues open a year before the Games, and often, they'll run an actual competition, e.g., for Boston's Olympic stadium, it might be the 2023 NCAA track and field championships. This is done to assure there are no last minute surprises in the functioning of the venue, and also to do any tweaking of the competition setup; e.g., perhaps installing screens to cut down a Boston east wind so that recorded times are not wind-aided.
 
Hey, just checking in.Did I miss anything?
If you haven't read the Bid book(s), they are here http://www.2024boston.org/docs

And the discussion of them and the subsequent public presentation starts roughly on Page 60 Post 1192

The big issues have been:
- How the O committee still needs to work on partnering with other agencies and interacting with people
- Whether Widett can be affordably decked and whether the rail stuff can be moved considering how important enhanced South Station ops are.
 
Every time I look at the rendering of the beach volleyball stadium on the Common I cringe. That is going to get massive backlash.

How could anyone on the committee not recognize the Common as sacred territory?

London just staged beach volleyball at the Horse Guards Parade, which is also a very notable public area. I hope I don't sound ignorant in saying I think London set the precedent for doing stuff like planning beach volleyball to be played on the Common.

I actually think it's an innovative place to put beach volleyball. And I like the fact that it's temporary; it's not like we'll be needing a beach volleyball stadium after the games anyway. (Am I right, Athens?)
 

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