Boston 2024

[stellarfun]

Globes detailed analysis of the transit funding shortfall for 2024.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...on-projects/cTNpYRGRSgAoyqdmlr7EsL/story.html

And who knows how much it will cost to bring the MBTA to a state of good repair after its basic operational shortcomings were exposed by a series of snowstorms. I think that will be the priority, and some of the other Olympics-related projects will be deferred.

 

[Equilibria]

And who knows how much it will cost to bring the MBTA to a state of good repair after its basic operational shortcomings were exposed by a series of snowstorms. I think that will be the priority, and some of the other Olympics-related projects will be deferred.

Once again, what are "Olympics-related projects?" That's a category that doesn't exist. Davey has cited Red and Orange line cars as being critical and SSX as being helpful, and that's it.

Any fix the MBTA makes to achieve SGR and more reliable operations inherently helps the Olympics. They are "Olympics-related" as much as any crazy transit pitch we on AB care to associate with the Games.

 

[Equilibria]

Olympic-related would be the transit projects included in Boston 2024's bid. They are olympic-related because Boston 2024 has deemed them so in an effort to win the bid.

No, Boston 2024 has identified Red/Orange Line cars as the only project that they expect and are planning for. The other projects in their bid documents were samples taken from the bond bill of projects that the Commonwealth might be able to complete, but they aren't depending on them. In fact, the nature of the "walkable" bid is that any project that improves the core MBTA will make the Olympics better. There's no MBTA extension needed to serve an Olympic Park, and there's no transportation project that is Olympics-only.

Arguing that the distinction exists is problematic because it creates a mentality that if you "kill the Olympic projects" the Olympics can't or won't happen. Instead, they'll still happen, the traffic and crowding on the T will be slightly (but not catastrophically) worse, and Boston won't get the benefits of those projects.

 

[stellarfun]

I must have mis-read this language in the Boston presentation to the USOC.

Separate from the non-OCOG budget, the Boston 2024 Games will benefit from over $5.2B of public transportation infrastructure projects that are currently underway and are guaranteed by the full faith and credit of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. In 2013, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts authorized a bond bill to fund the 21st Century Transportation Plan “The Way Forward” which authorizes investments of $13.7B in transportation infrastructure over the next 10 years. We anticipate that any transportation infrastructure upgrade projects required for the Games, will fall under this 21st Century Transportation Plan.

Additional investment in Boston and the region’s transportation system is regularly defined by the Commonwealth’s long range transportation and capital investment plan (CIP). Massachusetts is investing $12.4B in transportation system expansion and renewal over the next five years. Chief among these key planned investments, as itemized in Chart 3, includes:

• Expansion of South Station
($300M committed/$1.5B overall)

• New South Coast Rail Boston to New Bedford/Fall River ($2.2B)

• New West Station and Layover Facilities at Beacon Yards ($120M)

• Diesel Multiple Unit (DMU) Rail Service between Newton and the South Boston Waterfront ($400M)

• Extension of the Silver Line to Chelsea ($62M)

• Other Commuter Rail and Transit System Enhancements ($1.75B)

• New I-90 Interchange at Allston/Brighton ($160M)

• I-90 All Electronic Tolls and Other Advanced Transportation Technologies and Controls ($295M)

• Accelerated Bridge Program Continuation ($3.3B)

All the Globe article was saying is that the Boston 2024 presentation was misleading because all the supposedly required projects are not fully funded, and there is no guarantee that they will be.

 

[Equilibria]

I must have mis-read this language in the Boston presentation to the USOC.

You did.

Boston 2024 was misleading when they claimed that a project being in the bond bill was equivalent to it being funded, and that a project in the CIP was fully funded. Neither is true, and I don't think Boston 2024 actually understood that themselves at the time (though Davey certainly does). I don't know what the heck they meant by "currently underway," since basically none of that $5.2B of projects was actually in progress at the time those words were written (unless the Red/Orange cars and GLX somehow adds up to $5.2B).

That's very different, however, from saying that Boston 2024 endorses or is requiring "Olympic projects" from the Commonwealth. All they have ever said is that they "will benefit from" the full set of transportation investments made by MassDOT and the MBTA - whatever that ultimately includes. They have positioned themselves well to roll with the State's decision-making. Simply enumerating the projects in the CIP that they think will help them doesn't mean that those projects are mission critical for Boston 2024 or are in some way tied to their bid.

 

[lexicon506]

I'm starting to understand why first-time bidders rarely (ever?) win the Olympics. It's looking a bit like amateur hour over at Boston 2024. They are constantly two steps behind and forced to play defense, I can't imagine the USOC is too pleased right now..

 

[George_Apley]

No, Boston 2024 has identified Red/Orange Line cars as the only project that they expect and are planning for.

I think it's pretty spurious of them to say that though... Plenty of people may disagree, but if they want a transit-oriented Olympics, the system we have isn't going to cut it. Even if it were running properly.

 

[tangent]

Have you taken a taxi before? It's like you reinvent the wheel with every post.

Sometimes the wheel needs reinventing.

 

[bigeman312]

Sometimes the wheel needs reinventing.

facepalm

 

[tangent]

I think it's pretty spurious of them to say that though... Plenty of people may disagree, but if they want a transit-oriented Olympics, the system we have isn't going to cut it. Even if it were running properly.

Boston and Boston's transit can handle 500k Olympic specific visitors to the city over a three week period. 500k was the number from London. Doing it for a few weeks will be a strain, but the city handles events on that scale like First Night, 4th of July, Marathon. People will just have to either walk or queue for the new Red and Orange line trains. Oh and the city will be essentially shut down for 3 week, which should be a given.

 

[Equilibria]

I think it's pretty spurious of them to say that though... Plenty of people may disagree, but if they want a transit-oriented Olympics, the system we have isn't going to cut it. Even if it were running properly.

Gotta agree with Tangent here. This is one of those things that seems obvious that doesn't really hold up once you start putting the data to it. It's not really a matter of agree/disagree - there are easy comparisons to other cities, such as Atlanta, Athens, Sydney, etc. that did just fine with relatively limited transit systems.

The argument that the MBTA doesn't DESERVE the Olympics is one thing - that because it doesn't seem world-class to us after this month it can't the centerpiece of an international event (ten years down the road, in the summer). Then there's the argument that the Olympics can be a catalyst for reinvestment in the system even where it's not mission-critical for the Games to work. Whether the current system can simply handle the operational load is a different issue.

 

[JohnAKeith]

The Olympics 2024 people say (quoting), "Boston has nearly all the transportation infrastructure it needs to host the Olympics..."

They threw everything they could think of into the bid to make it look impressive but are now allowing themselves the freedom to say, "We can do it anyway."

 

[George_Apley]

Gotta agree with Tangent here. This is one of those things that seems obvious that doesn't really hold up once you start putting the data to it. It's not really a matter of agree/disagree - there are easy comparisons to other cities, such as Atlanta, Athens, Sydney, etc. that did just fine with relatively limited transit systems.

I guess my question would be if those Olympics were developed and marketed specifically as being dependent on transit.

 

[stellarfun]

Well I didn't mis-read these values from an appendix table in volume three.

Three hour peak capacity (all modes, commuter rail, subway, light rail, Silver Line)

As is / with planned improvements during Olympics

South Station 208,000 / 365,000

Boston Common - downtown 423,000 / 837,000

North Station 159,000 / 464,000

 

[Equilibria]

Well I didn't mis-read these values from an appendix table in volume three.

Three hour peak capacity (all modes, commuter rail, subway, light rail, Silver Line)

As is / with planned improvements during Olympics

South Station 208,000 / 365,000

Boston Common - downtown 423,000 / 837,000

North Station 159,000 / 464,000

We've been over these numbers before. They're crap. Boston 2024 or their consultant (whoever that was) did a crappy job with this. If you look through the tables, you'll see thing like South Station and Harvard having the same projected Red Line ridership, as do multiple stations on the same line (they seem to have confused line capacity with station capacity). These numbers have no real resemblance to real-world ridership figures from the MBTA Blue Book.

Boston 2024 under Davey will do this for real at some point in the future. In the meantime, we shouldn't put on iota of trust in their ridership estimates. They are not a transit agency, and they don't know how to plan like one.

 

[TheRifleman]

Olympic-related would be the transit projects included in Boston 2024's bid. They are olympic-related because Boston 2024 has deemed them so in an effort to win the bid.

This would have been a good excused to get Federal Funds for Transit but now the Republicans have taken over Congress I don't see any help from the Federal Govt.

 

[tangent]

I guess my question would be if those Olympics were developed and marketed specifically as being dependent on transit.

Boston 2024 is being marketed as the walkable Olympics so as long as venues, hotels, support, etc are in close proximity then that will hold true. Have to remember it isn't as if most people are attending/competing in every event and then rushing off to the next event.

 

[George_Apley]

Boston 2024 is being marketed as the walkable Olympics so as long as venues, hotels, support, etc are in close proximity then that will hold true. Have to remember it isn't as if most people are attending/competing in every event and then rushing off to the next event.

I guess I'm just not convinced that it can be at all as "walkable" as they're talking it up to be.

I've been supportive of the bid, and I haven't turned on it. But I'm more skeptical than I was after the initial announcement. They seem like they're running amateur hour over at Boston 2024. Obviously it's 9 years away and they could easily get their act together, but they seem a little sloppy atm.

 

[datadyne007]

Meeting synopsis:
http://www.dotnews.com/2015/olympic-backers-press-case-latest-public-meetings

She also live tweeted the whole event:
https://twitter.com/LaurenDezenski

Interesting timeline from Davey. Sept. is "submitting bid," with "update" to the bid two years from now (in 2017). #Boston2024

Davey: "If we don't have a functioning transportation system we're not going to win the bid but we won't be a functioning city." #Boston2024

Davey: "We need to invest today. Red and Orange Line cars are coming..." #Boston2024 (1/2)

Conflicting guidance about transpo system upgrades. Technically, only real improvements are addt'l Red and Orange Line trains. #Boston2024

Davey says S. Station expansion, Green Line ext., & BCEC-Back Bay rail extension could be catalyzed by #Boston2024, but not necessary

For all the talk of only pursuing projects in the pipeline, no official JFK/UMass station upgrade plan exists #Boston2024

Manfredi: Games designed around existing infrastructure. Despite last few wks, "We've got the bones of a very good transit syst" #Boston2024

 

[datadyne007]

Boston 2024 is upping their offensive on profitable Olympics:

DYK: The last three Olympic Games in the US have been profitable. In LA and Salt Lake City, those profits were returned to the city or invested in legacy youth sports foundations such as the LA84 Foundation. LA84 has given $220 million to youth sports programs in southern California, impacting 3 million boys and girls.