BU Development Thread

Relax. I dont live anywhere near here but when Im in the area, yes, I do go to that coffee shop; last time was within the last six months and if it was Pavement then, so what? As whighlander articulately said, like anyone else, Im not traveling all the way across town to go to this coffee shop. It's not a destination
That's my point: there's almost no reason for anyone to come here unless you're doing something BU-related.

That stretch of Comm is never going to be a major destination for anyone not affiliated with BU. That doesnt mean its a failed space. If it had no life and nothing but monumental buildings, maybe. But it's full of life, and just because people arent flocking from all over town to use the commercial ameities here doesnt mean they dont exist.

A place that only gets used by one group of people, even if it is a large group of people, is not a piece of successful city fabric. It is effectively BU's private turf, even if they don't own the public parts of the streets. That might be how BU likes it, but it's not good for Boston for that turf to spread and cover more and more parts of the city.

I dont know what dwinlding youre referring to - when I was in high school, there was a Taco Bell, a Burger King, and Guitar Center, I have no recollection of anything else that has gone away. Not every strip has to be like Central Square. And BU employs thousands of people of all ages. It's not like the only people here are college kids.

What do you want? For the city to reclaim the entire stretch of street level and force in dozens of restaurants and stores?

I work here so I get a chance to see it day in and day out, all year long. It's easy to walk by when the students are here and see lots of life, and think "wow". However, it's a very one-sided activity. Sterile and bland, in fact. If I didn't work here, I'd never come here. And when the students are gone -- which is much of the summer and at various times throughout the year (like now) -- it's completely desolated. That's when it really becomes apparent that this section of Comm Ave is effectively no longer part of the city of Boston but rather just "BU campus."

You might find this hard to believe but Bay State Road and on the other side of the Pike, "South Campus", used to be normal neighborhoods. BU purchased much of the housing stock and turned into dorms and classrooms. Again, driving out "ordinary" people and city life. Luckily, the city stopped them before they purchased all of Audubon Circle or any more of Allston. So the BU turf is, for the moment, held in some check. We probably can't fix what was taken and institutionalized already. Personally, I think if BU was trying to be proactive, they'd try to address the problem. But it's probably politically impossible from an internal standpoint.

At least what the city can do is prevent additional institutional expansion into the neighborhoods. The last thing I'd want to see is Allston turned into just an extension of "west campus" where all the buildings are filled with dorms, classrooms, dining halls, and a few inoffensive franchise restaurants.
 
That's my point: there's almost no reason for anyone to come here unless you're doing something BU-related.

I don't disagree, but is that necessarily a bad thing? Is there a reason to go to LMA that isn't related to the big institutions there located? Is there a reason to go to Brighton if you don't live there? Nobody goes anywhere for the cafes or delicatessens. Those things exist for the sake of the people who are already there. The truth is that the vast majority of people have two, maybe three places they go on a regular basis -- work, home, a favorite bar in another neighborhood. What is there should mostly cater to the people already there and reasons they have for being there. There aren't enough Fenway Parks to make every neighborhood a common destination for the general public. That doesn't mean a neighborhood without such a draw can't be a good urban space. That stretch of Comm. Ave. works well for the folks who need to be there.
 
I don't disagree, but is that necessarily a bad thing? Is there a reason to go to LMA that isn't related to the big institutions there located? Is there a reason to go to Brighton if you don't live there? Nobody goes anywhere for the cafes or delicatessens. Those things exist for the sake of the people who are already there. The truth is that the vast majority of people have two, maybe three places they go on a regular basis -- work, home, a favorite bar in another neighborhood. What is there should mostly cater to the people already there and reasons they have for being there. There aren't enough Fenway Parks to make every neighborhood a common destination for the general public. That doesn't mean a neighborhood without such a draw can't be a good urban space. That stretch of Comm. Ave. works well for the folks who need to be there.

I generally agree, but I also take Matt's point that a part of the city that is largely abandoned at certain times is not reaching its potential. The Financial District is a dead zone after 5pm and on weekends - only stragglers wandering between DTX, Faneuil Hall and Fort Point hang around at night. Shops close during the day. On aB we've talked about this as something that should be changed.

If institutional areas are totally deadened at certain times of the week or the whole year (Summer, holidays, weekend, whatever), I see the argument that the area is not part of the fabric. It's not alive. As far as colleges go, I don't know that there's really anything to be done about that, but it is depressing.
 
I don't disagree, but is that necessarily a bad thing? Is there a reason to go to LMA that isn't related to the big institutions there located? Is there a reason to go to Brighton if you don't live there? Nobody goes anywhere for the cafes or delicatessens. Those things exist for the sake of the people who are already there. The truth is that the vast majority of people have two, maybe three places they go on a regular basis -- work, home, a favorite bar in another neighborhood. What is there should mostly cater to the people already there and reasons they have for being there. There aren't enough Fenway Parks to make every neighborhood a common destination for the general public. That doesn't mean a neighborhood without such a draw can't be a good urban space. That stretch of Comm. Ave. works well for the folks who need to be there.

What I've been talking about is the dangers of "single use districts". The LMA is another example of a mainly "single use district" and that's not a good thing.

The opposite of a "single use district" is not an "every use district." The opposite is "multiple use district."

Speaking in general, you don't need to have a district appeal to everyone in order for it to be successful. Just enough to have reasonable number of people in the area at all times of day (and at least part of the evening), almost every day. When there's only a single use, that almost always means that the people participating in that activity all have similar schedules and have a tendency to all leave at around the same time. Like a suburban office park. Or a downtown (e.g. financial district) in a typical American city.

We're obviously stuck with a number of single-use zones, and I don't know if much can be done about it. Sadly, we went through a phase of history where city planners seemed to relish creating single-use districts. But we can try to avoid creating new single-use districts going forward.

Just to take up your example of Brighton -- that's a relatively large place, so I cannot talk about it as a whole. Parts of it are single use residential without any other uses nearby. I don't generally have a reason to ever go there. That's intentional -- the residents wanted the suburban experience and they got it by excluding all other uses. But other parts of Brighton are mixed between residences, retail, commerce and even some industry. Maybe I personally don't have reasons to go to some areas but other people do. And not just the residents. Remember, a successful city district doesn't need to appeal to everyone, just multiple types of users. And maybe not everywhere wants or needs to be a successful city district.

But Comm Ave @ BU should be. And as a person "who needs to be there" I can assure you that it doesn't work. One of the reasons I'm glad I got my bike now is so that I can get the hell out of here quickly when need be.
 
What I've been talking about is the dangers of "single use districts". The LMA is another example of a mainly "single use district" and that's not a good thing.

The opposite of a "single use district" is not an "every use district." The opposite is "multiple use district."

Speaking in general, you don't need to have a district appeal to everyone in order for it to be successful. Just enough to have reasonable number of people in the area at all times of day (and at least part of the evening), almost every day. When there's only a single use, that almost always means that the people participating in that activity all have similar schedules and have a tendency to all leave at around the same time. Like a suburban office park. Or a downtown (e.g. financial district) in a typical American city.

We're obviously stuck with a number of single-use zones, and I don't know if much can be done about it. Sadly, we went through a phase of history where city planners seemed to relish creating single-use districts. But we can try to avoid creating new single-use districts going forward.

Just to take up your example of Brighton -- that's a relatively large place, so I cannot talk about it as a whole. Parts of it are single use residential without any other uses nearby. I don't generally have a reason to ever go there. That's intentional -- the residents wanted the suburban experience and they got it by excluding all other uses. But other parts of Brighton are mixed between residences, retail, commerce and even some industry. Maybe I personally don't have reasons to go to some areas but other people do. And not just the residents. Remember, a successful city district doesn't need to appeal to everyone, just multiple types of users. And maybe not everywhere wants or needs to be a successful city district.

But Comm Ave @ BU should be. And as a person "who needs to be there" I can assure you that it doesn't work. One of the reasons I'm glad I got my bike now is so that I can get the hell out of here quickly when need be.

To your earlier point about Bay State Rd, I am well aware of BU's holdings there, and across the Pike in Brookline, where I grew up. Having watched the changes deeper into Allston (having "Allston Village" as everyone calls it now - I guess the chamber of commerce wins on that one - go from a more eclectic mix that included BU kids to a full-on BU stomping grounds, I certainly worry about further incursion by BU into Brookline and Boston, and both municipalities have thankfully, as you noted, been fighting this more recently.

However, I still disagree about the points made on here about single-use districts in general, and about this area in particular. The LMA, as a specific example, does bother me, because it truly is a dead zone now. The buildings are not only all large, but very corporate/institutional and lacking some of the older variety that BU has - brownstones and of course, their main building. Not that there were ever places here that I would actually "go to" for the sake of going, but at least ten years ago, there were two stragglers of local business - Rebecca's and the flower shop - now replaced by the new research building that everyone on AB is so gah gah about. And the Walgreens, that closes at 10 or 11, used to be a 7-11 that was 24 hrs. Another loss, even though they're both chains.

But the Comm Ave corridor is different. Like I said, I grew up hanging around both the LMA and Comm and feel very differently about the two places. If there were more retail here, would I like it more? Yeah, probably. But this stretch of Comm, in my opinion, was never very nice and certainly looks much better now since they rebuilt the roads, removed the lane and landscaped the sidewalks. And this area, very much unlike the LMA, does still retain several local businesses, like the coffee shop, the barbershop, the noodle place... And when I happen to be around St Mary's, or Cottage Farm, I will still walk over to that coffee shop, despite there being other options on Beacon, because I like it. It just happens that Im not in either area very much these days.

And other than the commercial node around Babcock and the south corner of Packard's, the whole stretch of Comm from Amory to Harvard is totally dead - MORE dead, with less street life, than in front of BU, more depressing, shittier to walk or bike on...

I'm not sure it even bothers me that the financial district is empty beyond 9-5. I used to love to go to London City on the weekends - it was totally dead and the old, mercantile architecture felt majestic in the emptiness. Boston's CBD is smaller but still retains some of this feeling.

I support the argument for future development that encourages small businesses and a good mix of use. Sometimes, dead zones dont work, like the LMA. I just dont think Comm by BU fits that designation. Could it be better? Yes. But it's alright, and in my opinion, better than more outbound segments of the same road that are not owned by BU.



PS -Re: the statement about Brighton residents who "wanted a suburban experience" - most of nether Brighton was developed in the late 19th and 1st half of the 20th century - the development fit the location at the time; the thoroughfares were commercial like any streetcar suburb and the rest went residential. It IS a suburb because it was.
 
After reading that I don't think you disagree about our points made about single-use districts in general, perhaps just about BU.

I specifically excluded talking about the part of Comm Ave up to Packard's Corner because it's in transition. Most of those buildings (if not all) are owned by BU institutionally, but they lease to other uses. The north side of the street up until Agganis Way is almost all institutional of one sort or another, and quite dead otherwise. The south side is in Brookline and retains a few other uses. There's a couple of strips of retail (where Sicilia's used to be up to around Sunset Cantina), a few remaining automobile shops, some doctor's offices (maybe affiliated with BMC), a gym, and some various other offices tucked into the buildings. With the supermarket not too far away, that's actually not a bad mix: what's missing is residential-above-retail -- since most of the buildings are one or two stories, sadly.

Unfortunately, I think the future of this section of Comm Ave is more institutional. As I said, BU pretty much owns it all. And they're moving on it slowly, it seems. The block that had Sicilia's is all pretty much empty now. I think that BU has some loftier plans for that land. It doesn't help that the political boundaries are weird: the south-side shops are in Brookline but their sidewalks are in Boston. It's a bit of an afterthought for both sides.

Regarding Brighton, it's too big to generalize about. When it was annexed in the 1870s there wasn't much there but farmland. Brighton Center, the abattoir, and a recently established post office/train station called "Allston". Plenty of it developed in a streetcar suburban pattern as we all know, but Comm Ave in Allston/Brighton didn't really develop until the 1910s. Criticisms of single-use zoning do apply to the suburban pattern (and we don't fail to remind the city of this here on aB ;) but it's less of a priority out in the less central regions. Comm Ave is weird because it was developed very intensively (some of the most densely populated census blocks outside of Boston proper) but with very little mixing of uses. In past centuries that kind of density would have come part and parcel with lots of services and retail for the population, but apparently not Comm Ave in 1920. Something to ponder, but now we're really getting off-topic...
 
Last edited:
After reading that I don't think you disagree about our points made about single-use districts in general, perhaps just about BU.

Right. It's really a matter of opinion, and in principle, I dont think that large institutions do a good job of allowing for mixed use development, which is why the LMA is so dead - and having worked there back in the day, it sucks, big time - very few options for dining or just having a quick meal.

I didn't think BU owned of Comm on the Brookline side - I dont know for sure, though. This map if accurate suggests that they do not, but I dont know where Rankin got his sources when he made it. I would rest confidently that Brookline wont let BU institutionalize any commercial stuff on Comm, though; they sued BU, I believe, not long ago for illegally or secretly having dorms in non-dorm property and dont take kindly on the U's incursion. Hopefully, they wont snuff out the commerce on the outbound side of Comm & Babcock, if they do own it - that's a decent strip, and would deaden the area majorly if they did.
 
Comm Ave is weird because it was developed very intensively (some of the most densely populated census blocks outside of Boston proper) but with very little mixing of uses. In past centuries that kind of density would have come part and parcel with lots of services and retail for the population, but apparently not Comm Ave in 1920. Something to ponder, but now we're really getting off-topic...

And yet - I find this quite strange - despite the density and the dearth of storefronts, the few retail businesses don't seem to thrive . And the mix, aside from a few good restaurants, trend towards convenience stores, lunch counters, and pharmacies. Maybe the lesson is that a residential/retail district requires an abundance of storefronts to attract people out, to attract a virtuous circle of ever better businesses to add to the mix.
 
What I've been talking about is the dangers of "single use districts". The LMA is another example of a mainly "single use district" and that's not a good thing.

The opposite of a "single use district" is not an "every use district." The opposite is "multiple use district."

..... But we can try to avoid creating new single-use districts going forward.

....But Comm Ave @ BU should be. And as a person "who needs to be there" I can assure you that it doesn't work. One of the reasons I'm glad I got my bike now is so that I can get the hell out of here quickly when need be.

Mathew: -- Comm Ave and BU may not "work" in your view -- But it has nothing to do with Buzz words such as "Single-use Districts" and "Mono-Cultures" -- although such might be fine for some city planning term paper

The problem with such a term is that it assumes that an institution is peopled with just a single homogenous population and nothing can be further from the truth.

While I'm not as well versed with BU as some on the forum, I've had a long association with MIT and will use it as an example http://web.mit.edu/facts/faqs.html:

On a typical day on the 168 acre Cambridge Campus of MIT there are more than:

  • 11,380 Employees including:

    • 1,030 Professors (all ranks)
      779 Other teaching staff
      3,590 Research staff
      5981 Administrative & Technical Support staff

    11,301 Students including [46.8% women, 32% minority]:

    • 4,528 Undergraduates [435 international]
      6,773 Graduate students [2,746 international]

    Several thousand visitors:

    • attendees at meeting & conferences
      some research subjects
      vendors making deliveries, etc.
      contractors involved with long-term projects

the nearly 25,000 people are a cross section of the metro region including:

  • some with a high school or GED; some with several graduate / professional degrees;
    people in their teens & people in their 70's and more;
    people managing money, managing real estate; operating residential facilities; operating restaurants; warehousemen; medical personnel; security forces; animal care workers; construction workers; machinists; librarians; maintenance personnel; glass blowers; drivers [substantial fleet of vehicles], etc.

How by any definition is that a "Mono-Culture" or even a "Single Use District"
 
the ol' gal cleans up pretty nice!

17376789219_a6e54d306b_b.jpg
 
The future Life Sciences building area is now fenced off and it appears that they are getting to work, with the students gone for the summer.
 
They're wasting no time on that thing. Was killing time yesterday watching the construction through the fence and the hole's getting big already.

Lot of utility vehicles parked all along Cummington and guys in hard hats hauling PVC piping, so they are probably rushing the auxiliary work for the summer so when Fall semester starts they can keep the work more self-contained behind the site fence.


Also were jackhammering up a storm in the Warren Towers parking garage yesterday. Possibly a resurfacing job on one of the parking levels.
 
I was in the office yesterday, so we may have passed on the street :p
 
the master plan calls for building an addition onto COM. BU needs to demolish COM and build an entirely new building. Despite renovations COM is still wholly inadequate for a school of its stature.
 

Too bad that the original Sert vision to which the LAW tower was restored only put those red panels on the narrow side and not on the wide side. The red is a nice accent and a good bit of branding for the university. The green panels are a whole lot of nothing by comparison.

All in all, though, they did a really good job on this complex.
 

Back
Top