Bulfinch Crossing | Congress Street Garage | West End

[Boston Needs A ShakeShack]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

I thought the idea was to build a little "neighborhood" with different kinds of smaller buildings? This is not really what I pictured when they described it.

 

[pelhamhall]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

Haha! You're putting me on the spot here! I told you I couldn't speak ill of this project! I called my colleague who has only ancillary involvement with the project and got some more information:

1) These are just for place-holder purposes only. A design competition is planned for all the individual buildings. Chan Krieger is the Master Planner only.

2) These designs are for the front parcel only. The ENTIRE garage will be torn down, and the next public meetings will lay out the plans for the main portion of the garage site. This will be the "controversial" aspect of the project because this is where 600-800 foot towers have been rumored.

3) This was done so that people can focus only on this block, and let the developers know what they want to see on this one block. The pedestrian access from North Station to downtown is the focus here - thus the covered arcade and wide walkway.

4) These developers did Trinity Place and Flagship Wharf - uninspiring architecture, but "safe" - I'd expect more safe and uninspiring architecture given their portfolio. This isn't a national developer, these are old-school locals who have been beaten down by the Kressel's and the Vivian Li's. They know how to produce the type of faceless slop that activists like that will approve of.

5) It's a common PR tactic of any city's master planning process to show the community traditional, red brick, etc - this calms the crazies, and that's all that needs to be done at this point of the process. Once whatever massing/layout is approved, then they can announce actual designs which are typically less "safe".

With this knowledge (note that the source is NOT somebody who is directly involved with the development, design, or architecture of the project) then yes, I'd say the project is still a slam dunk. Ridding ourselves of the garage and putting in its place smaller blocks with four-six buildings is absolutely a slam dunk to me.

I always, always say that the devil is in the details. I need to see the details, and that won't happen for at least a year. I completely approve of dividing that block into two smaller buildings with a pedestrian promenade through the middle. If we can get rid of the garage and replace it with a bunch of small foot prints, then I'd be happy.

Of course the architecture won't win any awards, this is Boston and this whole BRA pre-submission planning process is a horrible joke and waste of resources. The developer should be allowed to submit what they are planning, not have to jump through these hoops to pretend they are listening to the community. I don't fault the developer at all, I fault the over-planning at the BRA for this exercise in futility.

This block is the smallest, most minor part of the redevelopment. I want to see the mega-towers that they are setting the table to unveil.

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

Replacing the garage with a collection of small, boring background buildings would still be a major step forward for the city.

 

[ablarc]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

Replacing the garage with a collection of small, boring background buildings would still be a major step forward for the city.

Just so they're small enough --and I mean in footprint, not height. When it comes to height ... let 'er rip! If the footprints are modest, the project will reflect the scale of Beacon Hill and the North End --regardless of height.

And I agree, Ron ... boring is perfectly OK. Most North End buildings are boring, and so --come to think of it-- are the ones on the Cambridge Street side of Beacon Hill.

So bring on the boring, small-footprint wave of the future (and don't forget to put stores on the ground floor!).

 

[sidewalks]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

Off topic, but is anyone else surprised that the groundfloor retail space which faces the greenway in the garage above haymarket station remains vacant? What's up with that?

 

[Pierce]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

So bring on the boring, small-footprint wave of the future (and don't forget to put stores on the ground floor!).

Great, welcome to Celebration, Massachusetts....

I couldn't disagree more. The edges along that part of the greenway/artery/whatever want to jump. When I go through the North End Park I find a vibrant space, the water, the form of the overhead, with the berm on the opposite blocking out cars and almost setting the base for a view to set on. The custom house tower, the Union Oyster House sign, even the ugly orange line/garage/empty retail building--though ugly and one of my least favorite--even admittedly jumps in. Pan right and you've got the sign on the garden, the zakim bridge (which will remain visible to a degree after the rest of the triangle is developed), even the remnant (and apparently still quite profitable) billboards on the north end side. The "boring" north end side will be completely different in ten years, re-developed piecemeal to face the park, and eat up the views now priviliged to exposed party walls and tenement kitchen windows.

I think the garage parcel needs something lively, something that speaks to the reconfiguration of this space, not some staid contextual 5 story buildings from downtown Newburyport. Blah.

 

[pelhamhall]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

Seems like it was bad judgment to just release the front parcel ideas without showing off the gigantic buildings behind it. I guess once they show off some 800 footers, nobody will even give this parcel any thought at all.

Personally, I like the idea of cutting this parcel into two smaller blocks vs the larger mega block idea.

 

[pelhamhall]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

Off topic, but is anyone else surprised that the groundfloor retail space which faces the greenway in the garage above haymarket station remains vacant? What's up with that?

Not surprised at all - we, the taxpayers, own that garage. So of course it's horribly mismanaged. Who cares? The government's the landlord. The Massachusetts government exists to make money to support itself to spend money. If a developer owned that garage, would all that retail be empty?

 

[ablarc]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

Pierce, you need to invest in a subtlety detector; I don't think we disagree at all.

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

I think what we've seen so far are simply "massing models" informed by "guiding principals." Whether it's good or not is subjective (I think it's rubbish).

As has been noted since time-immemorial on this board, the public process in Boston generally has a deleterious effect on design. If some of us attend these meetings and address the issues, using facts, observations from failures in Boston, and an informed, progressive stance on what is possible (and appropriate) for this site, we stand to get a better result.

We've affected change here. Why not on this site, or the Bayside Expo Center, or Seaport Square.

 

[Suffolk 83]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

I applaud your efforts... but its much easier to get something killed than get something built it seems.

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

^^ Good point. There are lots of bright, articulate people who post here. More still read and don't post. If a percentage of informed people go to public meetings and speak out, applying the ideas from here to discussions about the built environment in their own communities, things will change.

Speak before, or complain afterwards. Only one choice offers a shot a real change, progress, evolution.

 

[commuter guy]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

Off topic, but is anyone else surprised that the groundfloor retail space which faces the greenway in the garage above haymarket station remains vacant? What's up with that?

Owned by the mass turnpike authority. I recently read that they are finally seeking tenant(s) for the first floor space in order to bring is some $$$.

 

[pelhamhall]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

It's so hard to stay informed and attend all these meetings. I have the Bayside Expo Site and the whole Columbia Point Master Plan going on in my backyard. I am attending these meetings, informing neighbors, etc... and frankly, just these two processes (Columbia Point and Bayside) alone take up a lot of time. I thought when I retired I have a lot of time on my hand but the suck of "consulting time" has me right back in the middle of the typical workload. This is why these meetings are so well attended by busy-bodies without jobs (and common sense).

Hopefully, in the near future, these meetings can be abolished and everyone can view presentations online and just comment online - without there ever being a meeting. Questions can be answered and posted online. This will involve a far greater slice of the population than the jobless, hysterical crazies.

That being said, writing a letter in support of any project is easy to do and can be e-mailed to the BRA. Short and simple, they only take 15 minutes. "I support htis project because..." followed by three bullet points and a "thank you".

Most of these meetings are useless anyway - the developer pretends to listen, nods politely and ignores everything. There's often free cookies and soda though, so they've got that going for them.

 

[tmac9wr]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

I feel like this area deserves something great (and I'm sure I'm not alone on this). This isn't a new area like SBW, this is a well established area which is being opened up by the Big Dig. This project has the ability to become a new focal point of the city. It's location is at the center of the greenway, North End, Financial District, Fanueil Hall, the West End and the Garden. It's surrounded by every amentity you could want. Sports, work, food, a beautiful neighborhood, and a large park system...all while right next to the water.

In my opinion, boring is not okay (and ablarc, I'm sure you want nothing but the best for this area, I'm just disagreeing with your earlier statement). I feel like this low-rise parcel should really push the envelope...Calatrava WTC Transit Center-type of architecture. Something that when you come to the Greenway you just say "WOW", and marvel at a building that is cutting edge and was created by an architect/developer that wasn't afraid to spread their wings. I'm sick of the run-of-the-mill buildings, I'm sick of missed opportunities, and I'm sick of saying "well this is Boston, I guess this is the best we could have hoped for". We shouldn't have developers that are scared to death of the NIMBYs, we need a developer with balls...it pisses me off when I hear: "these are old-school locals who have been beaten down by the Kressel's and the Vivian Li's. They know how to produce the type of faceless slop that activists like that will approve of." This is supposed to be the great greenway, the revitalization and reconnection of the city, and I hate to see it filled in by piss-poor buildings better fit for some piece of shit suburban office park.

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but this parcel is too important to be filled by ANY of those buildings on that PDF. This city shouldn't be worried about pushing down developments to the point where they are squat boxes, it should be pushing for the best designs possible. NIMBYs often argue, "This is Boston, this isn't Atlanta, Houston, blah blah blah"...and they're right, this is Boston, so we shouldn't settle for pre-cast pieces of shit. We deserve better.

 

[commuter guy]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

4) These developers did Trinity Place and Flagship Wharf - uninspiring architecture, but "safe" - I'd expect more safe and uninspiring architecture given their portfolio.

This makes me a bit uneasy given the design of Trinity Place. Clumsy and bland come to mind when thinking of Trinity Place. The greatest failure of Trinity Place is the inability of its ground floor to successfully interact with the surrounding environment. In particular, the corner of the building nearest Copley Square is poorly designed. The corner of that building fails to engage and interact with the sidewalk in such an important location facing Copley Square. In this regard, Trinity Place was a step backward compared to the prior building on this site, which was a simple triangular shaped building with a straightforward arrangement of commercial storefronts meeting the sidewalk. I've always thought this was a lost opportunity, especially with the unique pie shaped lot.

Hopefully more thoughtful designs happen at the Congress St. Garage site.

 

[Suffolk 83]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

^^ Good point. There are lots of bright, articulate people who post here. More still read and don't post. If a percentage of informed people go to public meetings and speak out, applying the ideas from here to discussions about the built environment in their own communities, things will change.

Speak before, or complain afterwards. Only one choice offers a shot a real change, progress, evolution.

I don't pay Boston city taxes and I'm not a developer, so I feel I lack credibility to attend these meetings. I believe others feel so too. At least NIMBY's have an excuse to be there.

 

[pelhamhall]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

I think the gigantic megatowers that will soar above this low rise parcel should be the focus of this whole development and the small low-rise parcel can be "contextual"

So if the Garage front parcel is just squatty and hanging out like a normal building, that's fine if a 800-1000 tower behind it is making the statement.

The travesty would be a faceless, blocky, squat building (like the ones we've seen) on the front parcel, and then a facelss, blocky tall building behind it.

This is a crazy way of doing things - why would you present the plan for 101 Huntington at the Prudential Center, or for the apartment blocks at the Prudential Center, and then at a later date show people the plan for the Prudential Tower? The towers are the main event here... why tear apart this plan until we see what they're thinking on the big lots?

In other words, I want to see the whole site before I pick apart this small part of it. I can't figure out why the developers are doing this other than to butter up the public into accepting the huge towers.

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

I don't pay Boston city taxes and I'm not a developer, so I feel I lack credibility to attend these meetings.

Understood. This shouldn't deter you from attending planning or other community meetings wherever you live. You're a smart guy -- speak up.

Our taxes entitle us to a voice as well as a vote. And by the look of things, the folks we've voted for are more interested in doing the things to keep themselves in office than doing what's right and sensible.

Vocal minorities can beat silent majorities (and/or apathetic masses).

 

[Chris]

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

This makes me a bit uneasy given the design of Trinity Place. Clumsy and bland come to mind when thinking of Trinity Place. The greatest failure of Trinity Place is the inability of its ground floor to successfully interact with the surrounding environment. In particular, the corner of the building nearest Copley Square is poorly designed. The corner of that building fails to engage and interact with the sidewalk in such an important location facing Copley Square.

And with scheme 11, they are intentionally doing the same thing: disregarding the interaction with the sidewalks, designing the buildings to face inwards to the galleria, and "encouraging" pedestrians to go through the galleria rather than walk on the sidewalks (since when did sidewalks become not-good enough for pedestrians?).