Bulfinch Crossing | Congress Street Garage | West End

Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

Beton Brut said:
Understood. This shouldn't deter you from attending planning or other community meetings wherever you live. You're a smart guy -- speak up.
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One thing I really like about this board is the interaction beween age groups. (Not that I'm saying B.B. is real old and Suff is real young.)

I learn alot from you younger guys, and admire your passion. I hope a jaded tip now and then from old Toby is useful to you as well.

Enough sentimentalism.

Why is it that these proposals all seem to be the proverbial "square peg in the round hole", or "one size fits all" or pick your own damn aphorism. Is there some standard catalog of this architectural junk? Or is it that the designers are testicularly challenged? Or is it simply that bad design is often less expensive than good design?

Sorry for the rant. This proposal is cookie cutter.
 
Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

If you believe there's an actual formula to good design, then you probably also think that Antonio Stradivari just got a good batch of wood.
 
Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

Good wood in the service of inspiration.

P.S. Looks more like there is a formula for bad design!
 
Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

tmac9wr said:
I feel like this area deserves something great (and I'm sure I'm not alone on this).
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You?ve got company.

tmac9wr said:
In my opinion, boring is not okay (and ablarc, I'm sure you want nothing but the best for this area, I'm just disagreeing with your earlier statement).
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My notion was that you didn?t even have to stipulate ?interesting? (how would you do that, anyway?) if you allowed the conditions that would give it to you semi-automatically. If, for example, developers weren?t so terrified of NIMBYs, you could count on them to build as tall as was feasible financially. If the lots were small that would result in at least some tall, slender sliver buildings of pleasing proportion (therefore not boring) like this:

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tmac9wr said:
I'm sick of the run-of-the-mill buildings, I'm sick of missed opportunities, and I'm sick of saying "well this is Boston, I guess this is the best we could have hoped for". We shouldn't have developers that are scared to death of the NIMBYs ? This city shouldn't be worried about pushing down developments to the point where they are squat boxes ? We deserve better.
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Just having varied buildings ?including lofty towers-- on small lots could accomplish much of that all by itself.

Think how small the Custom House footprint is.

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You might think the outcome was interesting without even gyrations or pyrotechnics in the building form.

Then again, you might not.




Some folks hunger after complexity of form.
 
Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

ablarc said:
You?ve got company.


My notion was that you didn?t even have to stipulate ?interesting? (how would you do that, anyway?) if you allowed the conditions that would give it to you semi-automatically. If, for example, developers weren?t so terrified of NIMBYs, you could count on them to build as tall as was feasible financially. If the lots were small that would result in at least some tall, slender sliver buildings of pleasing proportion (therefore not boring) like this:

Just having varied buildings ?including lofty towers-- on small lots could accomplish much of that all by itself.

Think how small the Custom House footprint is.

You might think the outcome was interesting without even gyrations or pyrotechnics in the building form.

Then again, you might not.

Some folks hunger after complexity of form.
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After looking back at my post, I realize I was being a little nutty...I was on a lunchbreak from work and saw another crappy plan, and decided to let er rip.

I totally agree with you that simple things like making taller buildings on a small footprint would improve the aesthetics of so many projects (another great example is One Madison Park in New York City). I probably came off like a crazy idiot before, I just get my hopes up when there's a parcel of land like this one.

Toby was talking about the interaction between younger and older forumers, and I believe as a relatively younger forumer at 23 years old (is that young compared to you other guys? I have no clue how old anyone is), I may be a little naive and too hopeful for some of these projects. I keep hoping to get projects that would rival the new beautiful projects of New York City or London...the longer I've been following Boston development (5 years now), the more my hope lowers but I'm still young enough to have that one feeble glimmer of hope for successful new development in Boston. It's hard to look at the beautiful old buildings in Boston, and then see the new "Luxury" developments that are layered in precast concrete. If you'll excuse me, I need to go have a few more drinks.
 
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Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

Sad to say that I am more than twice as old!
As for supposed naivete, I've read that a cynic is merely an optimist in possession of all the facts. Wrong.
Keep fighting for high standards. We deserve better!
 
Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

Tmac, if you're going to quote a post that has tons of pics in it, please delete out the image links so we don't have to look at and scroll through the same images twice. Merci :)
 
Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

^^ Fixed....don't blame me, blame Magic Hat Lucky Kat IPA! Tasty stuff.

Toby, had I guessed your age, I would have thought 30-something. Be complimented that you have the typing-style of a younger man haha.
 
Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

Hahaha, great excuse! (drink one for me)
 
Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

tmac9wr said:
Toby, had I guessed your age, I would have thought 30-something. Be complimented that you have the typing-style of a younger man haha.
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You are as young as the...never mind!
 
Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

tmac9wr said:
Toby, had I guessed your age, I would have thought 30-something. Be complimented that you have the typing-style of a younger man haha.
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Ya, but you have to remember....that's in dog years!
 
Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

Toby fits as much into every year as he can!

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Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

From reading all the posts, it sounds like people are wondering why they are only tearing down part of the garage, and why they are only focusing on the plans for the front parcel. Maybe I'm stating the obvious...my apologies if thats the case. But I believe they are planning a phased development plan so they can keep half of the garage open while they develop the first parcel, with the entire garage eventually being torn down. Perhaps that's why they are presenting only this part of the plan (front parcel) and holding back on the rest of the plans. The owner of the garage can continue to make money while development is going on next door. This will also quell some of the fears of people in the "neighborhood" who rely on this garage every day.
 
Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

The Haymarket Station was recently re-done so I think that more or less sets in stone what can be done about them. Personally, I think the part of the station that's under the garage works well; the bus lanes are simple pull-offs that lead straight down into the subway. I'm not sure how that layout could be improved, unless you could find a way to integrate is more with the other half of the station down near Hanover St., but that's another issue entirely.
 
Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

There is an article in the recent Beacon Hill Times...

What are the biggest issues going forward? If you guess height and shadows on the greenway, you would be right!

Also, questions were asked about narrowing some streets (unspecified which), but the city said it wasn't possible. It seems despite not giving a dime to the big dig in a decade, the width of those streets is still mandated by the federal government.
 
Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

Chris said:
There is an article in the recent Beacon Hill Times...

What are the biggest issues going forward? If you guess height and shadows on the greenway, you would be right!
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So let me get this straight... The central artery, which served an urban purpose, was dismantled in order for there to be a suburban nothing in the middle of downtown. OK fine, whatever. But now, we can't build anything because it might cast a shadow on said nothing? Ladies and gentlemen, I present you the Rose Kennedy Black Hole.

Seriously though, I would like to know how much free time Beacon Hill residents spend on the Greenway.
 
Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

It's just lazy reporting... all Boston reporters keep this template on file:

Headline:
(Name of city project) has residents concerned

Sub-headline:
Project will cast shadows on (beloved park/monument/museum/sidewalk along the water)

Body:
(Developer) proposal to build a soaring tower of X stories at the (site) has local residents concerned it could alter the character and historic nature of their neighborhoods. The property will soar above the (beloved park/monument/museum/sidewalk along the water), casting shadows and creating windy conditions.

If near the water, they fish out a quote such as: Vivien Li, unelected person representative of nobody in Greater Boston except her own special interests, said "NO NO NO NO!!! NO!!!! YOU CAN'T" and other reasonable things.

Alt. quote, if not near the water and you need a land-based perspective: Shirley Kressel, unelected person representative of nobody in Greater Boston except her own special interests, said "NO NO NO NO!!! NO!!!! YOU CAN'T" and other reasonable things.

The developer defended themselves (developer doesn't get first say in these articles, the angries always get first say, so the developers are always playing defense) "this project makes total sense because....."

And finally, a politician who could care less "Well, we share the concerns of both the activists and the developers, it's a complicated situation and we want to make sure that gas prices are low and the boys from Iraq come home safely"

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And then nothing gets built except an ugly squat boxes like at Jacob Wirth's, One Charles, Fan Pier, Seaport Square, Park Lane, WTC, the ICA, the Mandarin Oriental, the whole Bulfinch Triangle: Avenir, The Merano, Greenway Place, etc.

I don't mean to pick on Ms. Li or Ms. Kressel, it's not an indictment against them at all, it's an indictment against reporters who give these far-out-there fringe activists a voice in the newspaper.

Inevitably, the lazy reporter just picks up the phone, calls one of them knowing he/she will be able to easily get the generic, anti-growth, anti-progress point of view without actually having to report on it.

It would be nice and refreshing to see an article that says "people interviewed on the streets in front of the site all largely support this project. The only people at the BRA meeting to speak out against it is the small handful of anti-growth suspects that attend every meeting to fight all progress in this city" and just leave it at that. Why quote them? It gives them a voice that they really haven't earned.
 
Re: Congress St Garage is being sold.

pelhamhall, a brilliant and hilarious post; had me chortling all the way through. Too bad it's all true.
 
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