[CANCELED] Summer St. Gondola

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Lrfox said:
This was my concern too. These lifts don't usually come to a complete stop. They move slowly through the loading/unloading area and you have to step into it while it's moving. I don't know how that would work here. If you stop them completely, those 9 second headways are even more of a leap. I rode the system in CDMX two weeks ago for fun and it was definitely not ADA complaint (consistently moving, uneven platforms, etc.). Then again, the doors open on the Metro there before the train even stops in the station so I don't think it's as much of a concern there.
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The Mexico City one IS wheelchair compatible (ADA is just a US law).

However, its like getting a wheelchair on a bus. Instead of loading in 5 seconds, it takes a minute while the driver lowers the bus, deploys the ramp, raises the folding seats, and attaches the wheelchair to the belts.

Commuter rail is similar. The conductor has to walk to the cabinet with the wheelchair ramp, unlock it, carry it over, place it, and then return it.

So yeah, if someone in a wheelchair wants to get on, everybody has to wait while the stop the gondola. Mexicable has level boarding, so its not a long process.

And it's so rare, it doesn't impact normal operations.

BTW: Disney is building a new aerial gondola system instead of extending their monorail. They obviously will comply with full ADA. And while its not a city, Disney takes moving people quickly VERY seriously.
 
WormtownNative said:
In regards to the ADA compliance, the Roosevelt Island Tram doesn't loop. It has two large cars servicing two terminal stations - not multiple stations.
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I don't really see that making a difference - the stations are ADA compliant, and if a wheel chair/etc can get up to the platform, it just means pausing the tram for them to board (just like any other service). I don't see turn around vs dead ending as a big difference here.
 
Downburst said:
Perhaps there's a reason for that.
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AFIAK there are no commuter gondolas in the country, and Roosvelt Island/NYC and the Portland Aerial Tram are the only commuter trams in the country AFAIK.
 
Since I haven't ridden it since it opened is the Silver Line not successful or is it that there's too much demand for it to handle?
 
WormtownNative said:
In regards to the ADA compliance, the Roosevelt Island Tram doesn't loop. It has two large cars servicing two terminal stations - not multiple stations.
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It's also worth pointing out that Roosevelt Island is also served by the subway. The tram is useful if you live on the island and work in midtown, so basically from one terminal to the other. The tram was built before the subway and is still used but the subway handles way more traffic.

There used to be a trolley that ran across the Queensboro Bridge right there and it stopped on the bridge at an elevator so riders could reach the island. Had the trolley not been removed the gondola wouldn't have been built in the first place.
 
jass said:
The Mexico City one IS wheelchair compatible (ADA is just a US law).

However, its like getting a wheelchair on a bus. Instead of loading in 5 seconds, it takes a minute while the driver lowers the bus, deploys the ramp, raises the folding seats, and attaches the wheelchair to the belts.

Commuter rail is similar. The conductor has to walk to the cabinet with the wheelchair ramp, unlock it, carry it over, place it, and then return it.

So yeah, if someone in a wheelchair wants to get on, everybody has to wait while the stop the gondola. Mexicable has level boarding, so its not a long process.

And it's so rare, it doesn't impact normal operations.

BTW: Disney is building a new aerial gondola system instead of extending their monorail. They obviously will comply with full ADA. And while its not a city, Disney takes moving people quickly VERY seriously.
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Interesting. I guess I just didn't see anyone needing to use it. Mexicable's "level boarding" wasn't as level as I would have expected (significant gaps between the platform and gondola too), but not bad.

Disney might be a good model to follow.
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
Since I haven't ridden it since it opened is the Silver Line not successful or is it that there's too much demand for it to handle?
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The SL is absolutely slammed with passengers. You sometimes need to wait in the station for multiple busses to come through before you can find space to board.

This could be fixed by simply running shorter headways. There are a whole bunch of free (#FreeTheRamp) to close-to-free (better signal priority) to relatively cheap (buy more purely electric busses for the tunnel portion) to relatively more expensive (electrify the entire SL2, tunnel under D) ways this could be done. And all could probably be done for under the $100 million cost of the gondola.
 
JumboBuc said:
The SL is absolutely slammed with passengers. You sometimes need to wait in the station for multiple busses to come through before you can find space to board.

This could be fixed by simply running shorter headways. There are a whole bunch of free (#FreeTheRamp) to close-to-free (better signal priority) to relatively cheap (buy more purely electric busses for the tunnel portion) to relatively more expensive (electrify the entire SL2, tunnel under D) ways this could be done. And all could probably be done for under the $100 million cost of the gondola.
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Hopefully with SL3 to Chelsea opening in a month the new branch will add capacity on the trunk. It's still shocking that Boston hasn't considered bus lanes on the streets. Not that NYC has perfected it (thank you NYPD parked in bus lanes all day) but it's such an obvious improvement for just the cost of paint.
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
It's also worth pointing out that Roosevelt Island is also served by the subway. The tram is useful if you live on the island and work in midtown, so basically from one terminal to the other. The tram was built before the subway and is still used but the subway handles way more traffic.

There used to be a trolley that ran across the Queensboro Bridge right there and it stopped on the bridge at an elevator so riders could reach the island. Had the trolley not been removed the gondola wouldn't have been built in the first place.
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Yup. I generally used the subway, but the Tram was useful depending on where you are going and generally used by residents, although it is somewhat of a tourist attraction in its own rights (the views are amazing). That said it was a godsend as the F was generally out of service every other weekend. There is also the Q102 bus that does routes into Queens with other subway connections.
 
Charlie_mta said:
How do they get around ADA non-compliance since it looks like it doesn't fully stop at the station?
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I know nothing about ADA details, but I can tell you how boarding the handicapped works at ski areas: They ask the operator to slow or stop the lift (or if it's obvious they'll need it, the operator just does it), they board, and the lift resumes normal speed. Repeat in reverse at the other end.
 
I really cannot believe that this concept is being seriously discussed.

Only 15 years ago we spent $650 million to create the South Boston Piers Transitway, and the SL1 and 2 routes.

Why can't Millenium do a public/private partnership with the T to
1) increase SL capacity (more buses),
2) re-route SL2 or create a new route SL6 to serve their property,
3) jump start fixing the transitway, such as tunnel under D Street.
Financing that in exchange for service level guarantees (the way Massport does for Logan SL1 service.).

That is a much smarter way to spend $100 million, and creates far more benefits all around.
 
I agree. The gondola is insane and will never happen. The proposed elevated station next to South Station is just like like structures Boston spent 70 years working hard to remove: the old Orange Line elevateds and the old Central Artery.

Meanwhile, a transit tunnel is in service in the same corridor as the proposed gondola, a tunnel which could be improved and even extended to provide increased capacity.
 
ceo said:
It's not actually a straight line at all if you look at a map, and there's tall buildings on both sides. I'm pretty sure Winter St is simply too narrow. One huge drawback to gondolas is they can't turn corners except at stations, and the stations are the big expensive part. (You can bend the line a couple degrees at towers by tilting the sheaves that the haul rope runs over.) Oh, and good luck getting approval to put a gondola terminal on Boston Common.
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It actually is pretty straight, all told. Winter Street might be narrow but probably isn't too narrow to accommodate this. The terminus at Park Street - I agree - that would take some major political capital to score, given the historic area.
 
Shepard said:
It actually is pretty straight, all told. Winter Street might be narrow but probably isn't too narrow to accommodate this. The terminus at Park Street - I agree - that would take some major political capital to score, given the historic area.
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Alignments aside, one of the tragic-comic aspects here of course is how. damn. short. these distances are:

Park St. Station to South Station: .45 miles, or 9-minute walk for able-bodied adult doing 3 mph

South Station to SB Convention Ctr.: .67 miles, or 12-minute walk at 3 mph

SB Convention Ctr. to Harpoon Beer Hall OR Boston Design Ctr. (i.e., both are equidistant): .6 miles, or 11-minute walk at 3 mph

So, it's a 34-minute walk TOTAL from Boston Common to the tip of the Seaport. How often would a walker beat a vehicle during rush hour?

Assuming a bicyclist, following all rules--including walking their bike thru the DTX Ped Zone just to be nice to hordes of pedestrians--can average 10 mph for that 1.75 mile distance, thus doing the trip in basically 10 minutes, How often would a safe non-reckless bicyclist beat a vehicle during all roadway conditions?

And yet infrastructure/amenities for walkers/bikers remains--well, significantly worse than in Europe, I imagine. We have our eyes on the wrong prize.
 
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