Cape Cod Rail, Bridges and Highways

I agree with your earlier post, that car free on the Cape is challenging at best. We always bring a car, and while I have a few times taken the Flyer or the Fast Ferry when I wasn't able to travel on the same schedule as my family, in either scenario I've been picked up and driven for the final 10-20 miles. Even though I love to bike and have many times enjoyed riding on the rail trails, in general I don't consider the Cape to be very bikeable. I had intended last summer to bring my bike on the ferry, then bike from Provincetown to the house we had rented in Truro, but it was extremely stormy and I decided not to do so. Turns out there was no way I could have biked to the house, as the route I had planned was mostly on a bunch of sandy, muddy roads that would have been very challenging for me on a street bike. Plus, there's that whole section of riding on Route 6 that seems kind of sketch.

EastCambridgeDreamer said:
I also think Cape Cod presents a lot of challenges for transit, and sadly it doesn't seem feasible to provide the kind of local service that's frequent enough, fast enough, and wide-spread enough to allow people to visit most parts of the cape without a car. So I would challenge folks here to think about what specific trips they would like to see targeted, and how that could reasonably be done. For example, MA burying the hatchet with the Army Corps and getting more Cape Flyer trips in the summer. Or seeing more transit-oriented development in Hyannis.
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I think this could be improved some by simply adding more buses and then scheduling a somewhat frequent series of express routes to fan out from Hyannis.
 
HenryAlan said:
I had intended last summer to bring my bike on the ferry, then bike from Provincetown to the house we had rented in Truro, but it was extremely stormy and I decided not to do so. Turns out there was no way I could have biked to the house, as the route I had planned was mostly on a bunch of sandy, muddy roads that would have been very challenging for me on a street bike. Plus, there's that whole section of riding on Route 6 that seems kind of sketch.
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I think of trips like this on the odd chance someone mentions reviving the train to Provincetown. That train would be slow and unbearable if you took it all the way from Boston, but it could be nice and useful for these kinds of shorter trips once you actually get to the Cape. You could take the ferry to P-town, then the train to Truro, Wellfleet, or Brewster. If you're staying in one town, you could pop into another for the afternoon or dinner or whatever. It could reduce the need for a car somewhat.

Obviously in the short term it would be far cheaper to just improve bus service on the Cape, and that's really what we should be doing. But a train would be more fun and comfortable, especially when you've got luggage and a bike.
 
ritchiew said:
I think of trips like this on the odd chance someone mentions reviving the train to Provincetown. That train would be slow and unbearable if you took it all the way from Boston, but it could be nice and useful for these kinds of shorter trips once you actually get to the Cape. You could take the ferry to P-town, then the train to Truro, Wellfleet, or Brewster. If you're staying in one town, you could pop into another for the afternoon or dinner or whatever. It could reduce the need for a car somewhat.

Obviously in the short term it would be far cheaper to just improve bus service on the Cape, and that's really what we should be doing. But a train would be more fun and comfortable, especially when you've got luggage and a bike.
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The train will never be time-competitive with a bus. NYNH&H took 1:53 in 1930 to do Yarmouth Jct. to Provincetown, which is only a few minutes less than it takes for Cape Flyer to do Boston-Hyannis. It was terrible transit back in its day, which is why it got bustituted during the Depression. A reasonably stop selection -balanced coach bus from Hyannis to Provincetown should be able to make significantly better time.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
The train will never be time-competitive with a bus. NYNH&H took 1:53 in 1930 to do Yarmouth Jct. to Provincetown, which is only a few minutes less than it takes for Cape Flyer to do Boston-Hyannis. It was terrible transit back in its day, which is why it got bustituted during the Depression. A reasonably stop selection -balanced coach bus from Hyannis to Provincetown should be able to make significantly better time.
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Thanks for that, but I don't really know what that 1:53 would mean if we were to reopen the line today. (And I'm not saying we should. We should run more buses.) Like, since we discussed this in another thread, how would acceleration on a 1930s steam locomotive compare to any train today? I would have thought a modern diesel would have better acceleration than that old steam, let alone a BEMU. Also, my understanding was parts of the Cape are still dark territory today, so I have no idea what kind of signaling this branch would have had in the 1930s (if any) and how that would have affected speed limits compared to modern signaling or PTC.

I'm imagining the TransitMatters report for the Provincetown Line... "In addition to high platforms and stop consolidation, we strongly urge the MBTA to move away from outdated steam technology. Eliminating the coal and water stops alone could save ...."
 
ritchiew said:
Thanks for that, but I don't really know what that 1:53 would mean if we were to reopen the line today. (And I'm not saying we should. We should run more buses.) Like, since we discussed this in another thread, how would acceleration on a 1930s steam locomotive compare to any train today? I would have thought a modern diesel would have better acceleration than that old steam, let alone a BEMU. Also, my understanding was parts of the Cape are still dark territory today, so I have no idea what kind of signaling this branch would have had in the 1930s (if any) and how that would have affected speed limits compared to modern signaling or PTC.

I'm imagining the TransitMatters report for the Provincetown Line... "In addition to high platforms and stop consolidation, we strongly urge the MBTA to move away from outdated steam technology. Eliminating the coal and water stops alone could save ...."
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NYNH&H's steam schedules to Hyannis actually averaged 1-2 minutes faster than their diesel schedules, with 1 additional intermediate stop to boot. Compare the 1930 schedule with travel times near the end of Hyannis commuter rail service in 1958. The slower steam acceleration was offset by less schedule padding for dwells. In the old days you really had to really hurry to board/disembark, because the train didn't wait long at stops. There was no nod to accessibility accommodation 90 years ago like there was even 65 years ago.

The max speed limit for dark territory is Class 3/59 MPH. Given the curviness of the Cape Main it's unlikely that signalization to Class 4/79 MPH would make any difference to travel times because there's simply not enough running room to get a train over 60 MPH given the curves. The line had standard wayside Absolute Block Signaling all the way to Provincetown in the NYNH&H days which supported 79 MPH running same-as-today on the mainland to Buzzards Bay. And MassDOT did indeed try to install a signal system between Attleboro-Middleboro-Hyannis from 1982-1986 in support of the Amtrak Cape Codder and the excursion carrier on the Cape, with dreams of running a substantial summertime schedule between the two. They never ended up finishing it due to technical problems (the signal heads are largely still there in derelict form), but it didn't end up being needed anyway because it would've done little to nothing for schedule adherence.

You aren't bringing BEMU's to the Cape. The number of running miles past a wired segment would be much too great to support discontinuous charging. You'd have to install a 25 kV substation somewhere east of Hyannis to provide a little bit of discontinuous charging in order to make the trip to Provincetown in one piece, and not only does that clobber the cost past the point of doing anything the Lower and Outer Cape are bereft of high-capacity enough feeder power lines to even power a sub. So much like the beachgoer scoots of the East End of Long Island where there's similarly too little trunk electrical infrastructure to give it a go, you're pretty permanently looking at diesel push-pull or DMU.
 
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