Cape Wind Farm

What is your opinion of the Cape Wind proposal?

  • I'm in favor of it.

    Votes: 101 87.8%
  • I'm against it.

    Votes: 13 11.3%
  • I don't care.

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Total voters
    115
BTW, have you ever seen one of those videos of a large windmill spinning out of control and shattering, sending car sized shrapnel for hundreds of yards? Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3FZtmlHwcA

Not sure if one of these accidents has killed anyone - yet ? but I wouldn?t call for an end to windmills because they can kill (not likely to happen at sea, but in a populated area, who knows). Kind of an extreme example, but that's the point.

Well said, I agree with your post. And I had wanted to mention one of these turbine accidents since in comparison I don't think a solar panel would pose the same type of potential risk...unless it slides off your roof and hits you in the head :)

I say we put all of our efforts into solar. If the sun dies out none of it will matter anyway.
 
If you look at the previous list, solar is the most expensive option. They are obviously working on new and better solutions to this. They are also building large scale solar arrays and light towers and all those good things. It is at this time a very inefficient and expensive method of providing power.

We should not put all our eggs in either of those baskets, but all of them.

The wind does not always blow, but in Nantucket sound there is a lot of wind. The sun does not always shine (only out for what 10 hours in the dead of winter) and is at it's peak productivity for short periods of time. Overcast skys and night time really cut into solars abilities. The wind blows night and day btw.

Hydro power is never ending. Rivers always flow, the tide always comes in and out.

If not for previous tree-hugger generations, we might be more like some other countries who get almost all their power from nuclear. I'm not a tree hugger, but I do in fact agree with some of their arguments. There needs to be a lot of protection and over design when it comes to things like nuclear power.

The thing with solar, wind, and other "free" energy sources, is that they are not 100% reliable. But, when all are coupled together they can be.
 
What i want to know is, what are the chances that these will remain a permanent fixture after there useful service lives?

No one can predict the future, but is it plausible that after 30-40 years, solar/nuclear (solar with technology, nuclear with public perception) will have made such big strides that these will be taken down and replaced with nothing as they just would not be able to compete, or will capewind just replace them with newer, more efficient turbines as this technology advanced as well. If i remember correctly, over the course of approval this technology evolved. The original plan was to go with 3MW turbines, but the technology improved efficiency, so now they are going with 3.6MW.

Basically I am asking, is Nantucket Sound lost forever, or will this be a temporary, albeit long, stop gap until other power options improve?


I support the decision btw.

That?s a great point palindrome. I had considered that myself, but I?m not really opposed to it because of the impact on the views, or the sound itself ? it?s mostly financial for me. I agree (again, cost not considered) that a ?nice? thing about a project like this is that it?s in the water ? all you need to do is yank up the footings/foundations and cables and you?re essentially back to ?pre-windmill vistas? and unencumbered sailing.

The thing is, while the turbines, and I think the blades themselves may need replacement relatively early (give or take 20-25 years), there?s a lot of sunk cost (ha!) that I would think would make it unlikely that they would abandon the project (e.g. ? monopoles/footings, transmission cables, substation on land, etc.). Of course, those things have a lifespan as well and might need to be replaced or removed at some point (more expense, perhaps to taxpayers?), so maybe the financials would favor just yanking it all out and/or burying it at some point.

So, I totally agree that there?s very limited permanent impact to the sound and the views, which is a positive aspect of the project. I just think it?s unlikely and would be costly to ?unwind? the project.

Incidentally, my brother in-law has what I think is a unique perspective on this project. He?s an electrical power engineer and has worked for about a decade for various electric utilities in the northeast. He also was largely responsible for the planning and construction of the Cross Sound Cable (underwater cable between CT and Long Island). For the past several years, he?s been building out a substantial part of the west Texas wind power transmission grid. Put those in a blender and puree for a few seconds - and you?ve got Cape Wind. Anyway, he?s definitely an environmentally conscious guy (btw, we both are donors to/members of the Sierra Club, Mt. Washington Observatory, National Trust for Historic Preservation, among others) but he also understands the finances ? and he?s absolutely certain that windmills (especially off-shore) are not even close to a financially justifiable (on their own merits) given current and/or near-term technology.

Given the costs, logistical and legal challenges, etc., etc. and based on his experience, he used one word to describe Cape Wind, a ?nightmare?. Being shot at (yes, actually fired upon) by an angry fisherman in Long Island Sound while aboard the cable laying vessel might have skewed his perspective ? but not much, he actually thinks it was funny. Massachusetts mariners are tougher than those sissy CT fisherman too, so watch out! (Just kidding ;))

I don?t discuss this stuff with him often, and I don't think his opinion has affected mine very much, it just reinforces it.

BTW, I would say I?m probably 70/30 opposed/in favor of the project. Given the costs and challenges, I?d just like to see the financial resources applied more efficiently ? especially given the state of our economy and long term debts. Anyone who says this is a ?private project? and the financials don?t matter (either to "the government" or the ratepayers) has absolutely no clue how these things work.
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GL1100I
 
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If not for previous tree-hugger generations, we might be more like some other countries who get almost all their power from nuclear. I'm not a tree hugger, but I do in fact agree with some of their arguments. There needs to be a lot of protection and over design when it comes to things like nuclear power.

Ha! Glad you said it, not me ? but you?re absolutely right about it being the ?tree-huggers? (and I mean that in the nicest possible way) fault. I would point out though, that we?ve already made unbelievable progress in nuclear ? you just wouldn?t know it if you listened to the anti-nuke folks (past and present).

As you mentioned, every power source has its pros and cons, and nuclear has its fair share of cons, but the fact is that nuclear has come a long way. Think about it ? nuclear power started in the early ?50s and we built our last plant when, in the ?70s? early ?80s? So it?s been around for 60 years, and we built ALL of our nuclear capacity in the first half of the technology?s lifespan ? and people still point to Three Mile Island as the reason we shouldn?t build more nuclear?!?!?

Again, nuclear isn?t the only answer, and it has its drawbacks ? but if someone important would grow a pair, and stand up to the special interests (both environmental and fossil-fuel related) in D.C. ? we?d be a heck of a lot closer to employing a heck of a lot more Homer Simpsons?.
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Kawasaki KH500
 
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Ahh sector 7G, my favorite. In regards to the politics involved in nuclear, duing the state of the union Obama said he wants more nuclear plants, it got a fair amount of claps. So maybe there is more suppourt for them.
 
Nuclear.

Safe, clean, cheap, and environmentally OK.

Better than creaky windmills out in the sea.
 
Nuclear.

Safe, clean, cheap, and environmentally OK.

Better than creaky windmills out in the sea.

We're also a country with vast, unpopulated locales to put such plants. It just makes too much sense.
 
The next big thing: Cape Nuclear just off Nantucket Sound.
 
nuclear is not the cheapest option. New nuclear has gone way over budget in Finland recently, and was cancelled in ontario for the same reason. I have no problem with nuclear, but it is very expensive even on a $/kWh basis because of high and really unknown up front capital cost.

The big deal about setting up the FIRST offshore wind farm in the US is that we will reap the benefits of one developed later on. AS the industry scales in the states, it will benefit massachusetts to have the necessary infrastructure to build farms up and down the east coast.

Offshore blows in the afternoon and evenings, peak power times. So while the cost of the energy will be high likely 17-18 cents per kilowatt hour, it will provide power at a time when the power on the wholesale market sales at or above this rate. For that reason, there are the estimates that cape wind will actually lower costs over time, because this price will not change. So when the cost of power is high, cape wind will be added to the baseload, and reduce the need for high cost peakers.
 
nuclear is not the cheapest option. New nuclear has gone way over budget in Finland recently, and was cancelled in ontario for the same reason. I have no problem with nuclear, but it is very expensive even on a $/kWh basis because of high and really unknown up front capital cost.

I?m not sure anyone said it was the cheapest option, but there?s no argument whatsoever that it is by far the least expensive non-greenhouse gas emitting option. Advances in technology may improve wind and solar?s relative disadvantage, but I suspect concurrent advances in nuclear power generation will offset that to some extent.

Not a nuclear expert, and not familiar with the Finland or Ontario examples mentioned, but I wonder how much of the cost over-runs are due to either A) political/bureaucratic/environmental/etc. delays and fees, and/or B) historically (and already declining) high construction material costs due to all of the recent real estate bubbles, foreign and domestic???

The big deal about setting up the FIRST offshore wind farm in the US is that we will reap the benefits of one developed later on. AS the industry scales in the states, it will benefit massachusetts to have the necessary infrastructure to build farms up and down the east coast.

How exactly? The economics are vastly different from state to state ? not to mention the political and other variables that are unique to each project, and are the REAL variables. The technology is fairly developed and moving at a relatively languid pace - it?s not like Cape Wind is breaking any ground (ha!) or advancing the business model such that it will dramatically help other projects.

Offshore blows in the afternoon and evenings, peak power times. So while the cost of the energy will be high likely 17-18 cents per kilowatt hour, it will provide power at a time when the power on the wholesale market sales at or above this rate. For that reason, there are the estimates that cape wind will actually lower costs over time, because this price will not change. So when the cost of power is high, cape wind will be added to the baseload, and reduce the need for high cost peakers.

Sounds like Obamacare accounting to me. (Sorry, couldn?t help it. Sounds like Bush Medicare Prescription Drug Program accounting too, if that helps.) Seriously, I?m relatively certain that the previously identified studies have accounted for the minute-to-minute, hour-to-hour, day-to-day, season-to-season fluctuations in wind power potential, and it?s resulting competitiveness against other sources. If you?ve discovered an accounting loophole not in the existing models, you should give Cape Wind a call to give them a hand.
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medical marijuana
 
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We're also a country with vast, unpopulated locales to put such plants. It just makes too much sense.

Great point. But no matter where you put 'em, there will be NIMBYs. I'm still for large plants if/where they make sense, but worth noting is the rapidly advancing technology of small, modular, typically-underground (out of sight, safe from attack/theft, etc.) and cheaper (both in upfront capital, and operating costs) nuclear plants that can power entire towns or cities.
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VTX1300S
 
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... worth noting is the rapidly advancing technology of small, modular, typically-underground (out of sight, safe from attack/theft, etc.) and cheaper (both in upfront capital, and operating costs) nuclear plants that can power entire towns or cities.
Sounds promising.
 
^^ I'd take one at Suffolk Downs instead of the proposed casino.
 
^wow

You might as well put it right on Revere Beach. No view to kill there.
 
this morning in Rhode Island
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there were two of them cool to look at R.I. also has some really nice bridges
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any one know what the replacement bridge looks like in the last few pixs
 
New-Deal Deco, slender and sinewy as AIG, the Mt. Hope Bridge vaults gracefully onto the bottom of Bristol's peninsula. Few know of this willowy beauty because it's a bit off the beaten track and only carries two lanes.

But, Boston02124, you're sure to run onto it unawares in one of your peregrinations; and when you do, snap us a couple of pictures (but don't go over the edge; this one is slim).
 
I miss Bristol. My visits are too brief and infrequent. Now I want a corned beef sandwich and a jar of John Courage at Aidan's.

The Mt. Hope Bridge was the backdrop to my undergrad experience, its light flickering as I stumbled up Ferry Road shitfaced after illicit beach parties. And later, as I lived in Bristol as an "adult" I'd cross it every day to get to my soul-robbing job in Middletown.
 
What was the name of the cheap diner down by the dock? Their lightly-battered smelts and their calamari were to kill for.

Bet the place is gone.
 
There's a "shack" off of Thames St. called Quitos (adjacent to Independence Park). I don't recall the name from years ago, but it's been as long as I can remember. There's also the Sandbar (and Sip & Dip) and Topside on 114.
 
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