Columbus Center: RIP | Back Bay

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"It's one more bizarre example of people trying to save what appears to be an unviable project," she said. "If it isn't viable, it shouldn't be built. Why are we throwing money at something the private market won't support?"

Well, if we eliminated the mandatory parks, and allowed it to be a little taller, then it would be viable, but i am sure you have a problem with that too. :roll:

Also, THIS IS A LOAN! The money will come back, plus a large increase in tax revenue from the condo's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Noooo

I have to come down on the side of critics on this one.

What a terrible misuse of funds. Regardless of what happens, in the future, whether or not it is a loan or is paid back ... what were they thinking???
 
Great, a front page Globe wannabe-muckraking piece that will cause even more delays, which will cause the project's cost to rise even more, which will cause the developers to seek more funds from the state, which will have to reject them for political purposes.

The critics have created a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Mark my words: if Columbus Center never gets built, no developer is going to want to approach building something like this for the next few decades. The only project that looks like it'll ever get put over the Pike is the Kenmore one, because the only group with more sway in this city than King NIMBY is the Red Sox.
 
What a terrible misuse of funds. Regardless of what happens, in the future, whether or not it is a loan or is paid back ... what were they thinking???

"They" were thinking of investing in an awesome project that would cover a chunk of the Pike, reconnect neighborhoods, add jobs, hotel rooms, apartments, condos, parks, etc...along with millions of dollars paid to the city/state in taxes over many years. A real shame if this project doesn't happen.
 
denatlanta, what the hell? couldnt come up with something original? or is it you, atlantaden. i am most confuddled.
 
Confuddled

So freakin' confused and befuddled, you are unable to even distinguish between the two.


Cool definition from the Urban Dictionary. I am confuddled as to what it was about Columbus Center that caused so many NIMBY's to oppose this project so strenuously.
 
i am most confuddled

Not to keep this going but....you said it first!! But yes, Kennedy, you got me most confuddled.
 
You're a sharp one Kennedy! I'm one in the same, I'll drop you a line to explain this confuddling situation (way off topic)...I was clueless and you caught it!
 
Probably the most interesting bit of news in the Courant article being discussed in the Prudential Center/Exeter Apts thread is the very last sentence:
The renewed interest in large-scale development in the Back Bay comes as construction continues apace on The Clarendon, a 32-story residential tower, and the groundwork is laid for work to begin next month on Columbus Center, the sprawling air-rights complex between the Back Bay and South End.
 
Answers for the confused members

-----No NIMBYs found - Forum member InTheHood was all wrong to write on 20 July: ?Flaherty is a garden variety NIMBY who lives at 75 Clarendon and would just as soon the Pike be left untouched? and ?the most rabid opposition to CC has always been from residents of 75 Clarendon and the Pope building whose views would be compromised - they LIKE the trench.?
-----None of that is true.
-----I am an urban planning activist who eleven years ago co-founded the non-profit Alliance of Boston Neighborhoods, which educates citizens about urban planning issues. For 15 years, I have endorsed fully developing all air rights over I-90 (turnpike) and I-93 (Big Dig), and all public comments from residents in both abutting buildings have agreed.
-----There is no record of any ?NIMBY? opposition to air rights development; that is merely a label used to dismiss valid criticisms of the failed aspects of this 12-year old proposal.
-----Project was sold, then became insolvent - After the former owners sold both the Columbus Center company and the project on 15 March 2006, the new owners wrote to state officials that their project would be insolvent without a looser lease, lower rent, and larger subsidies. [See "Is Columbus Center up in the air?" Boston Globe, 25 August 2006, at www.boston.com/business/articles/2006/08/25/is_columbus_center_up_in_the_air/.] They never paid the rent, investor funds weren?t released, bank loans weren?t disbursed, insurance policies weren?t issued, and the 7-year construction schedule never started.
-----What citizens still oppose - Here?s help for forum members like Atlantaden, who admits being confused about why so many people oppose Columbus Center. People across the city oppose: (1) deletion of the 2-acre public park required by the Turnpike Master Plan; (2) conversion of three promised public parks into privately owned gardens; (3) air pollution from 14 railway and roadway tunnels being captured, concentrated, and vented into the community; (4) no competitive bids; (5) no financial disclosure; and (6) hundreds of millions of dollars in 14 public subsidies to a project that was proposed at 300% of the allowable density because it was going to be subsidy-free.
-----In addition to multiple grants and low-interest government loans, the subsidies include federal income taxes waived for many years, state income taxes waived for 7 years, and city property taxes waived for 19 years, so that the new owners? taxes are waived, while the public pays for the project.
-----Most recently, the new owners bribed a public agency $500,000 to re-draw Boston's poverty boundary so it illegally wraps around their luxury skyscraper complex, to get low-interest loans and income tax breaks from federal "anti-poverty" programs. Even the bribe itself was to be paid using public funds. [See "HUD to investigate expansion of Boston Empowerment Zone", South End News, 16 August 2007, in on-line news archives at www.SouthEndNews.com.]
-----Everyone wants air rights developed. But no responsible citizen wants non-competitive awards, to unaudited developers, who increase air pollution instead of filtering it, who privatize or delete required public parks, for a project where the former owners promised zero subsidies to get their approvals, and new owners now demand that the public fund their costs, their profits, and even their bribes.[/code]
 
Re: Answers for the confused members

am an urban planning activist who eleven years ago co-founded the non-profit Alliance of Boston Neighborhoods, which educates citizens about urban planning issues.

How pedantic of you.

A couple of things...

-----There is no record of any ?NIMBY? opposition to air rights development; that is merely a label used to dismiss valid criticisms of the failed aspects of this 12-year old proposal.

NIMBYism can apply to valid and invalid criticisms, but it is nice to see you assume as a basis of your statement that, of course, your criticisms are ipso facto valid.

They may be valid to you, but not to others.

----- People across the city oppose: (1) deletion of the 2-acre public park required by the Turnpike Master Plan; . . . (3) air pollution from 14 railway and roadway tunnels being captured, concentrated, and vented into the community; . . .

As to (1), this is a misstatement of the Mater Plan. The Master plan does not "require" a 2 acre public park. All of the language in the master plan is purely aspiration except one paragraph:

In order to preserve quality of life while still securing feasible
air rights development on these parcels, buildings taller than
150 feet may be acceptable on Parcel 16 in return for the
creation of a substantial public park on Parcel 18 or possibly
Parcel 17.
(Page 84)

That's the best you got. Even assuming that is enough to "require" a park (because of the height), it says parcel 17 OR 18. Furthermore, the master plan doesn't include planning for parcel 19, which states it is too small and difficult to develop at all. So are you opposed to the developer's plan to build a park there because it isn't in the master plan?

Between the part at 19, and the park over the rail yards on 17, that's 2 acres of parks (what your asking for on 18). I hardly see the difference. Not to mention that there is "valid" criticism that the master plan's park proposal for parcel 18 is really bad.

As to (3), the master plan doesn't speak of this as a problem, and nowhere have I seen this being a problem raised by anyone but you. If anything, the master plan views the covering of the masspike as being beneficial in terms of pollution to adjacent neighborhoods Do you have a source or a citation to one? [/quote]
 
Re: Answers for the confused members

Ned Flaherty said:
-----No NIMBYs found -
-----What citizens still oppose - Here?s help for forum members like Atlantaden, who admits being confused about why so many people oppose Columbus Center. People across the city oppose: (1) deletion of the 2-acre public park required by the Turnpike Master Plan; (2) conversion of three promised public parks into privately owned gardens; (3) air pollution from 14 railway and roadway tunnels being captured, concentrated, and vented into the community; (4) no competitive bids; (5) no financial disclosure; and (6) hundreds of millions of dollars in 14 public subsidies to a project that was proposed at 300% of the allowable density because it was going to be subsidy-free.

Re:
(1) and (2) The May 2006 Turnpike press release speaks of the three public parks: a 24,000 sq ft park, a 2,000 sq ft park, and an 11,400 sq ft park. Are these parks no longer public, and what is the evidence for these parks now becoming 'private'?http://www.massturnpike.com/user-cgi/news.cgi?dbkey=225&type=Archived&src=newsarchive

Re:
(3) This is disingenuous. To say you have supported building over every air rights parcel, yet object to venting vehicle and train pollutants. Where are those pollutants supposed to go? Where do you think they go now?


Re:
(4) I don't know the specifics of the bidding process, if any, for the Columbus Center parcels. However, my understanding is that recent air rights awards have produced generally only one bidder. And what criteria would/should the Turnpike Authority use if it issued a request for bids. Would not maximize the return to the MTA be high? For Columbus Center, MTA is not selling the air rights, they are leasing them for 99 years. IMO, leasing tends to depreciate value over the very long term


-----Everyone wants air rights developed. But no responsible citizen wants non-competitive awards, to unaudited developers, who increase air pollution instead of filtering it, who privatize or delete required public parks, for a project where the former owners promised zero subsidies to get their approvals, and new owners now demand that the public fund their costs, their profits, and even their bribes.[/code]

Who were the former owners of this development? And when did the former owners sell Columbus Center rights to the current owners?
 
It also wasn't just NIMBYs complaining with a ridiculous reason. I still remember the FAA stated CC was a safety hazard for cargo planes and how they have to lighten their load so that they won't crash into CC. Seems like they either forgot about the JHT next door or the JHT's windows reflected the sky enough that it camouflages with the background and becomes invisible to the pilots.
 
Re: Answers for the confused members

Ned Flaherty said:
-----No NIMBYs found - Forum member InTheHood was all wrong to write on 20 July: “Flaherty is a garden variety NIMBY who lives at 75 Clarendon and would just as soon the Pike be left untouched” and “the most rabid opposition to CC has always been from residents of 75 Clarendon and the Pope building whose views would be compromised - they LIKE the trench.”
-----None of that is true.
-----I am an urban planning activist who eleven years ago co-founded the non-profit Alliance of Boston Neighborhoods, which educates citizens about urban planning issues. For 15 years, I have endorsed fully developing all air rights over I-90 (turnpike) and I-93 (Big Dig), and all public comments from residents in both abutting buildings have agreed.
-----There is no record of any “NIMBY” opposition to air rights development; that is merely a label used to dismiss valid criticisms of the failed aspects of this 12-year old proposal.
-----Project was sold, then became insolvent - After the former owners sold both the Columbus Center company and the project on 15 March 2006, the new owners wrote to state officials that their project would be insolvent without a looser lease, lower rent, and larger subsidies. [See "Is Columbus Center up in the air?" Boston Globe, 25 August 2006, at www.boston.com/business/articles/2006/08/25/is_columbus_center_up_in_the_air/.] They never paid the rent, investor funds weren’t released, bank loans weren’t disbursed, insurance policies weren’t issued, and the 7-year construction schedule never started.
-----What citizens still oppose - Here’s help for forum members like Atlantaden, who admits being confused about why so many people oppose Columbus Center. People across the city oppose: (1) deletion of the 2-acre public park required by the Turnpike Master Plan; (2) conversion of three promised public parks into privately owned gardens; (3) air pollution from 14 railway and roadway tunnels being captured, concentrated, and vented into the community; (4) no competitive bids; (5) no financial disclosure; and (6) hundreds of millions of dollars in 14 public subsidies to a project that was proposed at 300% of the allowable density because it was going to be subsidy-free.
-----In addition to multiple grants and low-interest government loans, the subsidies include federal income taxes waived for many years, state income taxes waived for 7 years, and city property taxes waived for 19 years, so that the new owners’ taxes are waived, while the public pays for the project.
-----Most recently, the new owners bribed a public agency $500,000 to re-draw Boston's poverty boundary so it illegally wraps around their luxury skyscraper complex, to get low-interest loans and income tax breaks from federal "anti-poverty" programs. Even the bribe itself was to be paid using public funds. [See "HUD to investigate expansion of Boston Empowerment Zone", South End News, 16 August 2007, in on-line news archives at www.SouthEndNews.com.]
-----Everyone wants air rights developed. But no responsible citizen wants non-competitive awards, to unaudited developers, who increase air pollution instead of filtering it, who privatize or delete required public parks, for a project where the former owners promised zero subsidies to get their approvals, and new owners now demand that the public fund their costs, their profits, and even their bribes.[/code]

The developers don't have to provide a park, and they are. So why are you complaining about this project? Even if this was totally government funded, I will support this project because it has NO negatives. Beautiful tower, beautiful park, covering a wide industrial looking trench right now. Why are you so rabid in your opposition? Are you afraid of anything new? Go live in Wyoming then on your own ranch, you can control everything, how bout not having a cell phone, TV, computer, and car? How come you're so hypocritical when you enjoy new stuff when you won't allow new stuff in your neighborhood? Things change, Boston is a CITY, where there's HIGH DENSITY stuff, that's why you shouldn't complain about density, and if you do, move out. Boston won't be what you imagined it to be, so stop trying to make it that. In doing so, you and your ABN gang with Shirley Kressel has paralyzed most development in Boston and kept it in the 20th century. At least we have the BRA and the mayor to get at least some development done, but not enough. You love the trench, but 99% of city residents don't. So why don't you stage a camp out on the trench to save it since you love the view so much? Or better yet, jump off a bridge over the Pike and get run over. We don't want you crap NIMBYs besmirching the beautiful city of Boston.
 
Re: Answers for the confused members

Ned Flaherty said:
-----No NIMBYs found - Forum member InTheHood was all wrong to write on 20 July: ?Flaherty is a garden variety NIMBY who lives at 75 Clarendon and would just as soon the Pike be left untouched? and ?the most rabid opposition to CC has always been from residents of 75 Clarendon and the Pope building whose views would be compromised - they LIKE the trench.?
-----None of that is true.
-----I am an urban planning activist who eleven years ago co-founded the non-profit Alliance of Boston Neighborhoods, which educates citizens about urban planning issues. For 15 years, I have endorsed fully developing all air rights over I-90 (turnpike) and I-93 (Big Dig), and all public comments from residents in both abutting buildings have agreed.
-----There is no record of any ?NIMBY? opposition to air rights development; that is merely a label used to dismiss valid criticisms of the failed aspects of this 12-year old proposal.
-----Project was sold, then became insolvent - After the former owners sold both the Columbus Center company and the project on 15 March 2006, the new owners wrote to state officials that their project would be insolvent without a looser lease, lower rent, and larger subsidies. [See "Is Columbus Center up in the air?" Boston Globe, 25 August 2006, at www.boston.com/business/articles/2006/08/25/is_columbus_center_up_in_the_air/.] They never paid the rent, investor funds weren?t released, bank loans weren?t disbursed, insurance policies weren?t issued, and the 7-year construction schedule never started.
-----What citizens still oppose - Here?s help for forum members like Atlantaden, who admits being confused about why so many people oppose Columbus Center. People across the city oppose: (1) deletion of the 2-acre public park required by the Turnpike Master Plan; (2) conversion of three promised public parks into privately owned gardens; (3) air pollution from 14 railway and roadway tunnels being captured, concentrated, and vented into the community; (4) no competitive bids; (5) no financial disclosure; and (6) hundreds of millions of dollars in 14 public subsidies to a project that was proposed at 300% of the allowable density because it was going to be subsidy-free.
-----In addition to multiple grants and low-interest government loans, the subsidies include federal income taxes waived for many years, state income taxes waived for 7 years, and city property taxes waived for 19 years, so that the new owners? taxes are waived, while the public pays for the project.
-----Most recently, the new owners bribed a public agency $500,000 to re-draw Boston's poverty boundary so it illegally wraps around their luxury skyscraper complex, to get low-interest loans and income tax breaks from federal "anti-poverty" programs. Even the bribe itself was to be paid using public funds. [See "HUD to investigate expansion of Boston Empowerment Zone", South End News, 16 August 2007, in on-line news archives at www.SouthEndNews.com.]
-----Everyone wants air rights developed. But no responsible citizen wants non-competitive awards, to unaudited developers, who increase air pollution instead of filtering it, who privatize or delete required public parks, for a project where the former owners promised zero subsidies to get their approvals, and new owners now demand that the public fund their costs, their profits, and even their bribes.[/code]

Welcome. Good to see the other side showing up to discuss.
 
Is this for real? Well, gotta give some respect, so welcome. Invite more of your developer-munching friends to come, we'd love to hear them. And, where'd you find out about this site?

-Edited by the moderator.
 
Re: Answers for the confused members

singbat said:
Welcome. Good to see the other side showing up to discuss.


Agreed.

Welcome to the board, Ned. Hope we hear more from you.
 
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