Columbus Center: RIP | Back Bay

[belmont square]

Re: Columbus Center

I've always thought there was more of a sharp division than a continuum due to the lack of signficant new housing construction between 1930 and 1950. Definitions of suburban and urban differ, but for me most of the neighborhoods developed just prior to the depression (sections of Arlington, Belmont, Malden, Roxbury, JP, etc) function as urban neighborhoods and feel very different from neighborhoods developed after the war (typical auto oriented areas of aforementioned plus everything futher out). When you walk from a neighborhood of 1890s homes into one of 1920s homes it feels like a continuum, but a walk (or more often drive) from a 20s hood to a 50s hood feels like the crossing of a sharp divide.

 

[sidewalks]

Re: Columbus Center

Statler's point is dead on...we are all just guests in this city. Just because I happen to live a block from the site doesn't mean my view should drown out those who live elsewhere. During the course of this project's lifespan I have lived in about seven different locations in and out of Boston. People need to recognize that what happens in the center of Boston is much much larger than the concerns or "needs" of one neighborhood, or more accurately, one group of NIMBY activists who yell louder than everyone else. It incensed me that when the Boston Museum project announced it could not build atop the designated off-ramps the BRA's first response was to say "We'll have to meet with the North End Community and see what they would like to see there." Come on!!! The Greenway, of all places, should be a place that accounts for the needs and interests of people across Eastern Massachusetts. This process is broken in several ways, but more than anything we need stewards who will consider the long term needs and interests of the city above the parochial demands of transient property owners.

 

[unterbau]

Re: Columbus Center

This stuff needs to be broken off into a NIMBYism thread or something, since it really has nothing to do with Columbus Center anymore...

 

[sidewalks]

Re: Columbus Center

Ron, I hear what you are saying. There are definitely parts of the urban fabric that are in far worse shape and in need of attention. The areas you mentioned are particularly problematic. In fact many of these sites are owned by institutions/the city or other entities that are in a position to encourage development. I would applaud anyone who highlights the need to address these issues. That said, it drives me batty when people blithely say 'why don't you just build over there instead?' It shows a fundamental lack of appreciation for what a developer must deal with- ie (property rights, invested capital, political process, etc)

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Columbus Center

What most of the gaps have in common (including Columbus Center) is that they are formerly or currently occupied by railroad infrastructure. Many of them are also former landfill, often the last areas to be filled.

 

[statler]

Re: Columbus Center

This stuff needs to be broken off into a NIMBYism thread or something, since it really has nothing to do with Columbus Center anymore...

We could, but Ted & Ned (heh) won't follow. This is the only thread on this entire board they post in.

If it's about something outside their neighborhood or is about Boston in general, they just don't care.

 

[Ned Flaherty]

Re: Columbus Center

Are the wind patterns in this area a mitigating, exacerbating, or neutral influence on the concentration of UFPs that Ned is concerned about? I?d wager that an extensive study must have been done, considering UFP concentrations ?present state? and ?post-project? and that wind patterns would have be one of the variables.

Ned, can you put some context around this?

Beton Brut,

Being the windiest city in the nation, Boston?s air currents relocate UFP air pollution farther and faster than currents in other cities do. So, when UFP toxicity is at its highest level, more people are exposed to it in Boston than elsewhere.

And yes, an extensive UFP air pollution study is a rightful requirement for any project along a transportation corridor.

So even after 13 years, why was no UFP study ever done?

Because the developers omitted all mention of UFP from their proposal. Consequently, neither impact report addressed it, and EOEA-MEPA didn?t review it. Columbus Center did write studies on conventional air pollution, but not one word about UFP, the deadliest form.

When finally confronted with the UFP issue in 2007, California?s managers claimed to know nothing about: UFP air pollution, Columbus Center?s 5 vent locations, and UFP?s higher illness and death rates. Their answer mimicked the tobacco company doctors who were paid to testify in court that they knew nothing about the harmful effects of smoking.

Having saved all 15,000 pages of the 13-year public process is what enabled ordinary citizens to later identify how this omission happened, when, and who did it. This textbook example illustrates 3 points for the public, and for anyone who is fed by the development industry gravy-train:

■ The current public process has holes.
■ A streamlined process would have even more holes.
■ Eternal vigilance by informed citizens is a necessary safeguard.

 

[sidewalks]

Re: Columbus Center

That a project has generated 15,000 pages of documentation has taken 13 years and is still not under construction is exhibit A for why Massachusetts housing is so unaffordable. High density production in urban areas that have access to public transportation is the most rational land use policy we have available.

 

[TedG]

Re: Columbus Center

We could, but Ted & Ned (heh) won't follow. This is the only thread on this entire board they post in.

If it's about something outside their neighborhood or is about Boston in general, they just don't care.

Again, I don't live in this neighborhood; I live in JP, as I said earlier.
This is yet ANOTHER example of a personal attack without regard for facts.

You don't know me and Ned Flaherty, and you don't know what we care or don't care about.

The posts may have gotten a little off topic from Columbus Center (I feel these issues are all related anyway), but saying that Ned Flaherty and myself are the reason for it is untrue and unfair. Ned Flaherty has provided more information specific to Columbus Center that can be backed up with hard evidence and documentation than everybody else on this forum combined.

As for me, I'm just a dumb, uninformed guy who chooses to live in the city and has the nerve to want the same quality of life rights that people in the suburbs get.

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Columbus Center

That a project has generated 15,000 pages of documentation has taken 13 years and is still not under construction is exhibit A for why Massachusetts housing is so unaffordable.

A project not built on top of railroad and highway infrastructure (that has to stay open 24/7) would cost less and require less documentation. This is an exceptional case, more like the Prudential Center than like a conventional building project. And the Pru suffered delays, too. At one point, Prudential actually threatened to pull the plug.

 

[Ned Flaherty]

Re: Columbus Center

If it's about something outside their [Ted's or Ned's] neighborhood or is about Boston in general, they just don't care.

Statler, you haven't paid attention.

TedG has lived in Jamaica Plain since the Columbus Center hearings began, and when he first posted said he cared about Massachusetts state subsidies paying the costs and profits of a private, California-owned proposal.

And I identified myself as a co-founder of the Alliance of Boston Neighborhoods, a city-wide outreach and educational organization working with communities on urban planning, taxes, transportation, city government reforms, zoning, etc. My work on UFP air pollution benefits all I-90/I-93 corridor neighborhoods.

Neither profile warrants your wholly incorrect "they just don't care" label.

 

[sidewalks]

Re: Columbus Center

Ted!!! You've idenitified the problem precisely...you "want the same quality of life rights that people in the suburbs get." That's what so many suburban transplants who have taken up urban living don't seem to get. This is NOT THE SUBURBS. Don't expect it to be the same. There are trade-offs that one must accept. Living in a city means that there is going to be more noise, more pollution, more people, more construction and taller buildings than you might find in Milton.

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: Columbus Center

Living in a city means that there is going to be more noise, more pollution, more people, more construction and taller buildings than you might find in Milton.

And for all that, you can walk to Symphony Hall, Fenway Park, Wally's, or L'Espalier.

Sound's like a reasonable trade-off to me.

 

[Suffolk 83]

Re: Columbus Center

People just feel like because they pay exorbanant rents/condo payments/mortgages that they are entitled to nearly anything they want. Thats what it comes down to. Then they can make ridiculous demands and fully expect them to be enforced, because "hey I pay a hell of alot of rent, I deserve whatever the F I want"

 

[TedG]

Re: Columbus Center

Ted!!! You've idenitified the problem precisely...you "want the same quality of life rights that people in the suburbs get." That's what so many suburban transplants who have taken up urban living don't seem to get. This is NOT THE SUBURBS. Don't expect it to be the same. There are trade-offs that one must accept. Living in a city means that there is going to be more noise, more pollution, more people, more construction and taller buildings than you might find in Milton.

Sidewalks, it's happened again. Someone (you) has jumped to conclusions about me without knowing anything about me.

I am not by any means a "suburban transplant." I was born right here at Boston City Hospital and I have lived in the city for most of my life. I have lived in the Back Bay (Marlborough Street), Beacon Hill, two different parts of the Fenway and in the South End (Chandler Street, like you. Maybe we were neighbors?). I have also spent some time in Quincy, and now Jamaica Plain.

That being said, I am well aware of the differences between living in the city vs. the suburbs. I am aware of the noise, pollution, extra people, etc. and I long ago came to terms that the Massachusetts state bird is the construction crane. Choosing to live in the city, however, does not mean that I should automatically give up my right to object to being poisoned by UPF air pollution that developers refuse to correct because they stand to make a larger profit by not doing so. Ned Flaherty's analogy to the tobacco industry is a good one, and I pray that some sort of environmental legislation about UPF pollution is passed before this thing is built.

What I fail to understand, sidewalks, is why you, of all people, continue to support and argue for this pollution causing project so vehemently, since you live right smack dab in the UPF pollution danger zone. Do you have a reason for thinking that getting Columbus Center built is more important than protecting your own health?

 

[underground]

Re: Columbus Center

Hi Ned, I'm wondering how you'd comment on the following:
One of the largest sources of air pollution is automobiles. People who live in cities greatly reduce their need for automobiles. High density cities allow for more people to live in cities. Thus, it logically follows that allowing high density cities would greatly reduce air pollution.

 

[Suffolk 83]

Re: Columbus Center

Would someone please alert me when this circle-jerk is over?

Dont be jealous you cant get in on it 'Jimbo'.....

I apologize for off topic crappy posts, but I'm just responding to penis envy, biased, and gender discriminating posts.

 

[statler]

Re: Columbus Center

I was off base about the "care about the city" comment.

It was wrong and uncalled for .

I apologize to Ned and Ted.

 

[czsz]

Re: Columbus Center

I long ago came to terms that the Massachusetts state bird is the construction crane.

Sadly, in parts of the state it's become an endangered species...

 

[Scott]

Re: Columbus Center

People just feel like because they pay exorbanant rents/condo payments/mortgages that they are entitled to nearly anything they want. Thats what it comes down to. Then they can make ridiculous demands and fully expect them to be enforced, because "hey I pay a hell of alot of rent, I deserve whatever the F I want"

Because money talks and bullshit walks.