Columbus Center: RIP | Back Bay

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Arch21 said:
you guys always mention NIMBY's what is NIMBY's
NIMBY=Not in my back yard. As in don't build your crap near me and we are fine. Will try to do anything, complain over the most petty things, give ridiculous reason, to kill a project, no matter how beneficial it is to them or to the city.
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
Was it really NIMBY's though? It looks to me like it had more to do with changing economic conditions along with the expensive engineering challenges. That's not to say there weren't people against it but I'm sure most people would have favored development over a highway.

There were over 200 meetings with the neighborhood. That is absurd!!! Most of the issues were purely selfish reasons from individuals of the Ellis neighborhood association (with their president that lives across the street at 75 Clarendon). The fight against the height and the endless list of concessions were the driving force behind the meetings which in turn delayed the projects approval. This in turn resulted in the Columbus Center project missing the market.

Not only is this a loss for the city, it is a loss for the state because it has sent a precedent for turnpike development. Projects aren't getting built over the turnpike and Columbus Center is just the latest example. (Boylston Square is another along with the Fenway parcels behind Landsdowne Street)

This unfortunate track record can't go unnoticed by developers. The added difficulties with construction and NIMBY opposition have to be a factor when they bid on the parcels. This is going to be another problem for the Turnpike Authority when they try to develop all the Big Dig Parcels. And they have already budgeted these sales/leases as a source of revenue to re-coupe their cost overruns.

Sorry for the rant, but Columbus Center was probably one of the best projects to get approved by the BRA. Unfortunately for Boston, it wasn't approved in time.
 
Guess we're stuck with that sulfurous Turnpike trench forever.
 
castevens said:
I wish Boylston Place or whatever it was called went through

Going retro on us, eh?

For those who don't know, "Boylston Square" was supposed to rival the Prudential center in height, and go right on top of the Mass Pike on Mass Ave between Newbury St. and Boylston:

boylstonsquare.gif

I agree that Boylston Square should have been built. It was a very neat building, and having a building that's not quite 1'000 feet but not below 650 feet would be a good starting point. Maybe, with that, the BRA would realize these skyscrapers are actually really cool.
 
kennedy said:
I agree that Boylston Square should have been built. It was a very neat building, and having a building that's not quite 1'000 feet but not below 650 feet would be a good starting point. Maybe, with that, the BRA would realize these skyscrapers are actually really cool.

Moderator: Comment removed.
 
will you shut up?

sorry bosd, but that's not how you treat newcomers. We all started out making comments that didn't really contribute much to the forum, but eventually learned how to write "valuable" posts. If you just come out and attack newbies, we're never going to get more contributing members. After all, who wants to join a forum whose members are abrasive and mean?
 
NIMBYs really didn't kill this one ... economics did. Sure, the process was lengthy, but that's all sunk time and cost (more of the former than the latter) and frankly the amount of time that it has now sat dormant with all approvals in place has eclipsed the amount of time spent in the process. The project had many influential supporters, including the strong backing of the Mayor's office, and some of the supportive neighbors even tried to broker a deal to ensure that CC would break ground before the Clarendon project down the street. Unfortunately, now that the developer has done more exhaustive math (they wisely did not nail down several of the engineering details until the project was approved) it appears that it will take a public subsidy to get it going. The run-up in steel prices and softening of the condo market certainly didn't help, but I understand there were other unforeseen engineering challenges to the decking that are also big factors.

We can only hope it will be revived - but in general it is a reminder about how difficult it is to pursue any air-rights development ... loads more expensive than developing a level site.

As I've remarked before on this board (sorry if I'm repeating myself) much as I love to see well-executed tall buildings in the right context, I get frustrated by the assumption made by some on this board that taller equals better economics. Beyond a certain height the reverse is true - the taller you go, the more of the floorplan that gets eaten by infrastructure, so costs per foot rise exponentially. There's a market for a few tall residential buildings with a costly view, but there are only so many Manny Ramirezes in this city. And there are is a market for some breathtaking office space but there are only so many Bain Capitals. In a city of Boston's density, economics generally point toward 10 or 12 story in-fill and renovations of underutilized buildings ... and blocky construction like we're seeing in the Seaport and North Point (no, I don't like how those areas are shaping up either) pencil out very well on a cost per foot basis. Something like Columbus Center is much more iffy, and it would have been iffy even if the trolls in the Ellis Neighborhood Association had greeted them with rose petals from the start.

To that end, Winthrop Square and SST might happen, but at this point they strike me as longshots, just like Columbus Center ... someone with very deep pockets needs to be prepared to take a big risk with more of a goal of "making a statement" than making money. That, after all, is how we got the Hancock tower. From an economic standpoint, JH would have been much better off sinking their 1970 dollars into a dozen five story office buildings in a park on 128 ... they realized this, of course, but they wanted to respond to the interloper (Pru) from New Jersey.

What holds us back from the vision many of us would like to see isn't the presence of NIMBYs but rather the relative absence of super-rich megalomaniacs. Think Dubai ...
 
so is this project officially dead or what is going on?
I really wanted to see this thing built.
 
TheBostonBoy said:
I really wanted to see this thing built.
I'd go so far as to say it was the only really good multi-building proposal in Boston. Naturally, it's the one that died.

Or is it really on life support?
 
As of now, this project is not officially dead, but for all intents and purposes, it is better to consider it so. Prices have skyrocketed so high that the developers can no longer pay for it, unless a large sum of public money is provided for the project. But this will never happen. Plus, to my knowledge, the neighbors weren't too happy with it. This was probably the best proposal in Boston and it failed. It truly is a shame.
 
Are you speculating or do you have a source? I saw some work going on last night at the former triangular parking lot at the intersection of Columbus Av and Berkeley St.
 
winn

I've heard from several different sources that Winn has between $40 and $50 million of his own money invested in this project. He will not be walking away from this any time soon. I would bet that it will be built, the biggest question is when that will occur.
 
Ya that building is beautiful and i definitely want to see it built.
And good for Winn, this thing should be built and I am glad someone is trying to keep it afloat!
We need to help him! lol
 
Roxxma, I used that from what I heard awhile ago, and since there really hasn't been much action since then, I only assumed that that source held true (I'll try and find it, but it's a long shot). However, if you saw work going on recently, then they could possibly be the project being resumed.

One thing though, are you sure that it was the Columbus Center? There is a small park being built that is roughly in a triangular shape. I just ask because I made that mistake awhile back.
 
we need some inside info thats what we need. some legit reporting needs to be occuring.

but then again, we all know its not happening... to bad,
 
Nopee

Corner of Berkeley and Columbus is the staging area for the under-construction Clarendon project, I believe.
 
Hard to say whether this means Winn and Cassin are abandoning development in Boston, or a signal they are going to concentrate on Columbus Center.

From June 16 Boston Globe:
JPI Inc., the Texas-based apartments company run locally by former Boston Redevelopment Authority director Thomas N. O'Brien, has agreed to buy the long-dormant East Boston development site Clippership Wharf for $17 million.

JPI, which is rapidly expanding in the Boston area, has signed an agreement with the co-owners of the property, WinnDevelopment of Boston and New York developer Stephen M. Ross.

.......WinnDevelopment chairman Arthur Winn, with local partner Roger M. Cassin, has spent more than a decade planning Columbus Center, an ambitious mixed-use development in the Back Bay and South End. The project has been delayed because of rising construction costs and now has a price tag of at least $650 million.

Eisner said Winn and Ross's decision to sell Clippership was "unrelated" to the Columbus Center situation.
 
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