Commuter Rail to New Hampshire?

If they don’t want to build the extension, they simply shouldn’t approve funding for it. Banning the use of state funds for passenger rail projects is peak political stupidity, they’re going to end up tanking the chances of any rail transportation projects ever happening in NH, not just the Capitol Corridor project. The lawmakers responsible for or in favor of the bill should be ashamed of themselves, as with the “I wont ride it so NH doesn’t need it” voters who vehemently oppose the extension for trivial, ridiculous reasons.

Although Governor Sununu has expressed opposition to the project in the past, it seems like his opposition to the project has waned in recent years. I hope he vetoes the bill if it manages to make it to his desk.
 
Dang it I thought that this bill died when it emerged from Committee without recommendation and "laid on table.

Hopefully the composition flips next year and the new legislature overturns it, but ideally Gov. Sununu vetos before it gets that far.
 
Seems like some poster brought up the "if NH doesn't want to pay for it, why should Mass" argument a few pages ago.... ;)
 
Rover said:
Never trust New Hampshire!
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Well of course, it's a politically turbulent state, and this has been a historically controversial project. I wouldn't be surprised if they continue flip-flopping on whether to do it or not for a long time.

Even though MA money being spent on a NH project would never realistically happen, NH commuter rail would undoubtedly be beneficial to MA, not only by providing interstate rail transit but by simplifying Lowell Line ops by constructing a layover yard in NH. It's in MA's best interest that the project gets done.
 
themissinglink said:
Well of course, it's a politically turbulent state, and this has been a historically controversial project. I wouldn't be surprised if they continue flip-flopping on whether to do it or not for a long time.

Even though MA money being spent on a NH project would never realistically happen, NH commuter rail would undoubtedly be beneficial to MA, not only by providing interstate rail transit but by simplifying Lowell Line ops by constructing a layover yard in NH. It's in MA's best interest that the project gets done.
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It doesn't seem terribly controversial - 75% support it. The problem is that the NH legislature very quietly behaves more like Wisconsin's or North Carolina's than it does a functioning state.
 
The question mark at the end of this thread's title is very indicative of the sentiment surrounding the project itself; everyone is wondering when New Hampshire is gonna get their shit together and finally fund the damn thing.
 
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Equilibria said:
It doesn't seem terribly controversial - 75% support it. The problem is that the NH legislature very quietly behaves more like Wisconsin's or North Carolina's than it does a functioning state.
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Yeah, I agree that it's mostly controversial with the politicians more so than the general populace, however I have seen a good amount of criticism or skepticism (even vehement opposition) from members of the public. I'd imagine most of the opposition comes from the northern half of the state.
 
“I wont ride it so NH doesn’t need it"
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Speaking as someone that grew up in NH, there's always been tension between "common good" and "I don't use it, so why should I pay for it" in the state. Transportation and education seem to really get people riled up.
 
fatnoah said:
Speaking as someone that grew up in NH, there's always been tension between "common good" and "I don't use it, so why should I pay for it" in the state. Transportation and education seem to really get people riled up.
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Spot on. I grew up on the MA/NH border, with much family in southern NH.
Case in point contemporary example: all the pushback Nashua is getting (so I hear from relatives) for any public money being spent on the new downtown performing arts center. Talk about cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
 
Talk about cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
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I experienced this directly in high school when a property tax revolt led to a 2 year regime of very limited funding for sports and extracurricular activities. There was no money to travel and private donors and volunteers at least made it possible to to still have some of those things.

I do get some of the angst over taxes in NH. I now live in MA, and pay 5% of my earned income to the state. If I make more money, I pay more, and if I make less, I pay less. Property taxes don't track that way, so when you have a state where the economy is small or stagnant in many areas, people face the real prospect of paying more taxes w/out a corresponding increase in income. That's easy to grasp. What's harder to grasp is the more indirect and harder to measure the benefits better schools, social services, and transit infrastructure.
 
If New Hampshire is unwilling to fund an extension, Massachusetts should extend the Lowell Line to a station in Tyngsborough, with intermediate stations at UMass Lowell and North Chelmsford. This would provide service to some underserved communities in Massachusetts while tapping into some of the demand in the Nashua area. This would be similar to how South Attleborough station's catchment is partially in Pawtucket, although a station in Tyngsborough would be noticeably further away from the border. As for the layover yard, it could possibly be located somewhere in Tyngsborough, but I have no idea how feasible that would be.
 
themissinglink said:
If New Hampshire is unwilling to fund an extension, Massachusetts should extend the Lowell Line to a station in Tyngsborough, with intermediate stations at UMass Lowell and North Chelmsford. This would provide service to some underserved communities in Massachusetts while tapping into some of the demand in the Nashua area. This would be similar to how South Attleborough station's catchment is partially in Pawtucket, although a station in Tyngsborough would be noticeably further away from the border. As for the layover yard, it could possibly be located somewhere in Tyngsborough, but I have no idea how feasible that would be.
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The plan would be to extend to the Pheasant Lane Mall but on the Tyngsboro portion. Not on the NH side.

Plus there’s enough land to build a layover facility. And since Nashua has wanted Commuter Rail for eons, there shouldn’t be too much pushback.

45A8BEBB-F102-47BE-B487-1F1C8CC154B4.jpeg
 
kingofsheeba said:
The plan would be to extend to the Pheasant Lane Mall but on the Tyngsboro portion. Not on the NH side.

Plus there’s enough land to build a layover facility. And since Nashua has wanted Commuter Rail for eons, there shouldn’t be too much pushback.
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This is fascinating (dare I say brilliant). What many folks don't know (yet as your aerial shows): though the Pheasant Lane Mall building is all in Nashua, a large chunk of its (now grossly oversized) parking lots are in Tyngsboro (MA). A rail station and all necessary support infrastructure could be built all in Massachusetts, yet with its doors literally opening right up into NH. Moreover, I am sure the mall owners (Simon properties) would support it, given that a Park-and-Ride there would no doubt result in more people visiting the mall and so much of their land is presently underutilized. Lastly, there's probably still space leftover for some TOD residential development that would be reasonably connected to Boston. Last point is that the ROW between here and a downtown Nashua station is (I believe?) entirely within Nashua, so a further extension to downtown (funding aside) wouldn't run into any jurisdictional issues. Am I missing something?
 
kingofsheeba said:
Plus there’s enough land to build a layover facility. And since Nashua has wanted Commuter Rail for eons, there shouldn’t be too much pushback.
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No need to find land in MA. The T has lifetime irrevocable trackage rights to Concord, and have already discussed with Pan Am using excess acreage in Nashua Yard as a layover site for any minimalist Nashua border-poke build scenarios. Some money would get slushed to PAR (and successors) for hosting/building it and maintaining the track as leads. And if City of Nashua wanted to go it alone and build the Crown St. downtown station in tandem using municipal+fed funds (as they have indicated they're willing to do if the state turfed it) they could tag-team on a terminus +1 over the border fully without NHDOT input.
 
bigpicture7 said:
This is fascinating (dare I say brilliant). What many folks don't know (yet as your aerial shows): though the Pheasant Lane Mall building is all in Nashua, a large chunk of its (now grossly oversized) parking lots are in Tyngsboro (MA). A rail station and all necessary support infrastructure could be built all in Massachusetts, yet with its doors literally opening right up into NH. Moreover, I am sure the mall owners (Simon properties) would support it, given that a Park-and-Ride there would no doubt result in more people visiting the mall and so much of their land is presently underutilized. Lastly, there's probably still space leftover for some TOD residential development that would be reasonably connected to Boston. Last point is that the ROW between here and a downtown Nashua station is (I believe?) entirely within Nashua, so a further extension to downtown (funding aside) wouldn't run into any jurisdictional issues. Am I missing something?
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Hilariously enough, there is no SB exit at the mall. Only NB. You can see the obvious intent of the mall in the first place. I think that's why Spit Brook has been studied more.

You could still do the layover facility there.
 
jklo said:
Hilariously enough, there is no SB exit at the mall. Only NB. You can see the obvious intent of the mall in the first place. I think that's why Spit Brook has been studied more.

You could still do the layover facility there.
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Spit Brook is good enough of an exit. I’m more concerned with that Welcome to Massachusetts green and white sign. Bare bones indubitably
 
If new hampshire wont play ball theres still some rhode island locations that would serve the system well notably woonsocket and its extremely close proximity to the border and massive cheap housing stock. The ROW is already there and its a short distance down the franklin line.
 
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