Copley Place Expansion and Tower | Back Bay

[type001]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

?It?s too tall,? Jacquelin Yessian, chairwoman of the Neighborhood Association of the Back Bay, told the development team.

The developer replied "No it isn't, and you're obviously crazy. Next question."

 

[tommym96]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

HAHA She didn't say anything other than "it's too tall" ? Sounds like a rational argument she has there!

 

[Boston Needs A ShakeShack]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

This morning's meeting consisted of an animated shadow demonstration that could not have been more unspectuacular. Do people really care about shadows on the mall in the middle of december when no one in their right mind wants to be outside in December? Not to mention the fact that the Comm Ave Mall is treed anyway.

Marty Walz made a big stink about shadows on roof decks in the Back Bay. Is she serious?

The biggest issue to the CAC seemed to be a long shadow that gets cast down Dartmouth Street in December from Copley to the river.

I have to say though, the Wintergarden idea seems stupid. The roof will not be glass, and the wintergarden will be in the shadow of the tower. What exactly is the point of enclosing a park? Seems to me to be just a way for the mall to grab a public place and make in unattractive for lingerers and the homeless. Why not just refurbish the plaza so it's not butt fugly. If they want to enclose it, they may as well just build more retail there: better than a useless, stupid Wintergarden.

 

[castevens]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

I'd rather a bear garden

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

^ Check out The Fens.

 

[tobyjug]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

I have to say though, the Wintergarden idea seems stupid. The roof will not be glass, and the wintergarden will be in the shadow of the tower. What exactly is the point of enclosing a park?... useless, stupid Wintergarden.

According to Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary: "win-ter. n.... 4: a period of inactivity or decay."

Sounds like they got the name right.

 

[tmac9wr]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

?It?s too tall,? Jacquelin Yessian, chairwoman of the Neighborhood Association of the Back Bay, told the development team.

The developer replied "No it isn't, and you're obviously crazy. Next question."

Haha, it looks like these NIMBYs are starting to get lazy with their protest reasoning.

 

[aquaman]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

^ Check out The Fens.

particularly after closing time at Ramrod

 

[BostonSkyGuy]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

The fact remains that there will always be opposition to whatever project is proposed. It's to be excpected. I for one, am truly shocked that the only voice of concern was the height of the building. As long as the FAA doesn't have any problems with the building restricting flight paths of aircrafts, I don't see why height should be an issue. Especially where the largest buildings in the city already reside in this area. Now if they want to argue shadows, that's another thing. And height sometimes equals shadows. Whether or not that will be a valid argument or not, I'm sure we'll see in the coming days. After Kessel and Co. do their vast and imporant studies on shadows in the neighborhood.

 

[tocoto]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

I don't know the real numbers but assuming the shadow on Dartmouth lasts for 15 minutes, and Boston is cloudy 60% of the time in December there will be an average of 6 minutes of shadow per day on Dartmouth.

 

[Suffolk 83]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Can someone give us lay people an idea about what these complaints really mean? The BRA won't approve anything without community support? Not everyone likes everything so the BRA obviously approves things that some people complain about. So if a neighborhood association objects but BRA approves anyway... they sue? who? BRA and the developer? What sort of court precendents have been set in cases (if they exist) Yea I'm an idiot I know.

 

[a630]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

i dont know if all the terminology is the same in MA, but the BRA will do an environmental assessment of the project and determine if an EIR is necessary. (1) someone can sue the BRA if they feel that the BRA did not correclty assess the effects of the project and allowed the developer to proceed with some lesser declaration when they should have done an EIR. (2) the developer can challenge a request from the BRA to perform an EIR, (3) someone can sue the developer if they hire a consultant who believes the EIR's findings are false ...
any project this large is likely to trigger an EIR because of effects on existing aesthetic conditions (shadows and glare), infrastructure (more people on the road), geology and soils (impervious surfaces, excavation), utilities, etc etc. this is why things get scaled back: to lessen the amount of time and money spent on assessing environmental impacts, and to mitigate those impacts. a lot of 'mitigation' is done in the early parts of the development process, when the developer gauges what they can get away with so they dont have to go through more complicated hoops later. so ya, if someone gets too noisy about shadows, and it looks like a signicant impact, (significance is defined in environmental law, but i'm not getting my ceqa handbook out right now), the developer is going to think about chopping off a few floors. also someone can sue the bra on the grounds that the city rezones and this is not in accordance with the general plan. or the developer can sue if their development rights are vested (if that happens at approval or construction i dont know) and the bra requests that something changes. lots of potential lawsuits. generally parties involved navigate appropriately.

 

[Boston Needs A ShakeShack]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Can someone give us lay people an idea about what these complaints really mean? The BRA won't approve anything without community support? Not everyone likes everything so the BRA obviously approves things that some people complain about. So if a neighborhood association objects but BRA approves anyway... they sue? who? BRA and the developer? What sort of court precendents have been set in cases (if they exist) Yea I'm an idiot I know.

The BRA will make a scoping determination based on public comments. There will be an artcile 80 large project review process, and probably a review by the Boston Civic Design Commission. From what I've seen, the BRA sides with developers over the residents 99% of the time. The NABB can sue the developers, as the Beacon Hill Civic Association threatened to do to Suffolk to stop 20 Somerset, but it's doubtful.

 

[Suffolk 83]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

From what I've seen, the BRA sides with developers over the residents 99% of the time.

That seems contrary to most recent projects. see: Dainty Dot. Common sense tells me that if the developers of this thought they were going to get approval they wouldn't listen to neighbors. I can investigate on my own, but are there any recent examples locally of neighborhood assocations sueing the BRA or developers?

 

[a630]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

so mepa would not apply to this project?

 

[atlrvr]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Does anyone really think that BRA killed the original Dainty Dot proposal? The final plan was in the developer's back pocket the entire time, and neighborhood was the lackey, that saved him lots of money in preserving the building.

I think its a different case here, as Simon is immune to neighborhood politics. The have the direct line to the mayor while they hold key to his heart....more luxury retail.

Saving a historic building, bah, we got plenty of those, now a Fendi and a bigger NM than in D.C., hmmmm.....tell Jackie to shut the hell up this time, and I'll be sure to knock a couple of floors off the next proposal for MassPike Parcel 12.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Are you surprised by this? Welcome to the real world kid.

 

[atlrvr]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Surprised? What would surprise me, is if the city ever made the Taj Boston remove its illegal loading dock, solar trash cans were installed on Ruggles St, Pizzeria Regina had good service, and Storrow Dr gets repaired before someone gets killed......no, the development approval process does not qualify as surprising, rather something along the lines of its going to be windy in front to John Hancock even on a calm summer day.

I'll let the kid comment slide because I can only assume you were talking to my son who is just a couple of years younger than you, but I doubt he is surprised either.

 

[kz1000ps]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

I made it to the liberry this weekend and checked out the Project Notification Form:

There's no way this tower is 569ft.. they must be counting just the occupiable floors.

fourth floor:

fifth floor:

sixth floor, residential sky lobby:

looking east:

and looking north:

Shadow study, this one for the winter solstice at 12 PM.

I have a full set of shots of the shadow studies, so if you want to see the rest speak up.

 

[atlrvr]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

If you had zoomed in on those side elevations, you could probably see the actual height delineations.....a lot do this in feet above sea level, but they should have a ground floor height as well, and some 2nd grade math does the rest.