Copycat City, USA

nico said:
Are you saying Ablarc, that because something is planned in advance, it can?t be authentic?
No, I was careful to distinguish genuine planning (Back Bay) from gee-whiz, "creative" imagineering:

?the inherent falsehood of ?creating? the city.?
?All that vacant space in the Seaport District walking distance from the Convention Center ...and no one?s thought of zoning it into a reprise of the Combat Zone??...It doesn?t take creativity; it?s a natural.?
The zoning's not my idea (I don't believe much in zoning), but the prigs that run Boston seem to think it's necessary to contain sleaze. Better than "Banned in Boston", you know.

Is zoning, especially really ?natural? or ?genuine??
Nope.

You could argue that if zoning didn?t prohibit this so-called sleaze, than it would thrive, but I think you?d be underestimating how PC and sometimes lame Boston can be. Far too easily offended to go for another Combat Zone.
Unless lawyers forced the issue.

The fact is that the city has evolved, and it is no longer a blue-collar, rough-neck town.
Perhaps not as roughneck as it once was, but every Boston visit tells me: "this is the most working-class place I regularly visit."

At the same time that Boston has completely reinvented itself, VHS, DVD and now the Internet have come along rendering peep-shows and Porno Theaters obsolete.
Lap dancing on the Web is virtual; that's no substitute for the real thing. ;)

Whether we?re talking about maintaining a historic building, or creating fun and excitement, I think it?s difficult to define what is actually genuine.
If you can't tell it's phony, it's real. The banality and tedium in the Seaport is real.

Maybe we could ask it to move to the Internet.
 
ablarc said:
callahan said:
He feels that Boston is trying to buy cool (if that makes sense.)...

He uses Fort Point, China Town, The Theater District and Landsdown St. as evidence that the city and the developers have half assed, unoriginal ideas to make these areas trendy and hip. He laughs at the notion of recreating a mini Time Square or a mini SoHo instead of allowing Bostonians to create a feeling of their own originality in these neighborhoods.
I keep running into this generalization, and never once has it been accompanied by any concrete prescription. Seems harder to identify the solution than the problem.

Stellarfun seems to agree that the author sidesteps concrete answers:


stellarfun said:
To borrow a phrase from Spiro Agnew, the author comes across as a 'nabob of negativism'. He recites what he doesn't like, but offers no specifics

Well since the author won?t do it, forgive me if I give it a try:



A BETTER BOSTON

Though after it?s implemented even the most meticulous plan evolves a bit, you could divide Boston?s successful places broadly into two categories:

1. designed places that were master-planned formally, economically and socially, and built in a fairly short time, then largely preserved in amber. Examples include micro-regulated Back Bay, the highly-structured South End, and the Bulfinch vision for Beacon Hill. Interest through regulation and control. Beauty of primary importance and achieved through homogeneity.

2. natural places that evolved quite organically from social needs into an unforeseen form. This category includes heterogenous Harvard Square, the glorious chaos of the Financial District (skyscrapers and small buildings jostling willy-nilly on a medieval grid), the North End and Charlestown. Interest through diversity, beauty optional.

Both methods have yielded much-loved places.

Boston Magazine?s author is groping only semi-coherently with the fact that we now look for the city?s salvation in a third and patently doomed method: grafting gee-whiz, carnival-barker notions onto the city. These have as much genuine urbanity and staying-power you?d expect from such a source.

There?s no substance to such notions; they?re a Coney Island of the mind -- but a Coney Island that?s been sanitized by prudes.

First problem might be that neither the author, nor the planners and developers --nor perhaps we enthusiasts-- are willing to acknowledge the inherent falsehood of ?creating? the city.

Las Vegas was ?created.? Disney World was ?created.? The new Times Square was ?created,? and locally Faneuil Hall Marketplace was ?created.?

The North End --at least yesterday?s North End, before the proposal to ?creatively? close Hanover to traffic-- was not so much a ?creation? as it was a spontaneous manifestation, therefore unplanned; even its present yuppification can be seen as that.

Also spontaneous are the gay cavalcades on Charles Street and the South End, the chic promenading on Newbury, the scene in Harvard Square (even today), the student bustle out Commonwealth Avenue and Allston, the yuppie throngs at Coolidge Corner and Davis Square, the hetero-ethnic mix in Jamaica Plain, even the thinning daytime throngs at Washington and Winter Streets (some time ago renamed ?Downtown Crossing? in a yucky attempt to ?create? something that spontaneity stubbornly resisted).

It?s clear these places are defined by people more than by features of their buildings; if we want to bring back the Theatre District, we need to start by bringing back the people.

Another common thread in the above list: all are gentrified, are headed towards gentrification, or wish they were (Downtown).

Contrast that with the districts that were slain by planners: Scollay Square, the West End, City Square, the Combat Zone, the rowdy old working Waterfront of sailors and fishermen, Washington Street with its El, and unsanitary Quincy Market in its meatpacking days: each in its own way represented something genuine and spontaneous and still grittily fascinating (because genuine) even in its death throes. They were defined not by the gentry but by the proletariat.

Those who remember them do so with nostalgia; they were real places.

But unless we?re hypocrites we need to recognize that what we lionize about Scollay Square is precisely what led to its zealous execution by the planners and reformers of the city: its low-class sleaze.

Simultaneously vital and seamy, Scollay Square was frequented for its whiff of the naughty, its promise of sin. This was also true of the Combat Zone and the old rough-and-ready Waterfront of sailors? bars, the aptly-named City Square, and the shadowy netherworld that teemed beneath the Washington Street El.

It?s what we?re trying inexpertly to reference with all those proposed flashing signs. We want Hopper?s world noir, where those signs pointed atmospherically the way to flesh and sin. What do you think that neon referred to, anyway, when it flashed ?ROOMS?? You could rent those rooms by the hour.

When Quincy Market was ?created? (imagineered?) into Faneuil Hall Marketplace, its svengali Ben Thompson composed a weighty tome of shalls and shall-nots calculated to produce a fresh, tasteful, new look that would resonate with the upper middle class and the sharpies that would give his creation its success. Gentrification by the taste-meister.

Simultaneously, he saw to it that a sprinkling of the old meat market?s gamey butchers were subsidized into the re-imagined market, their role being to maintain a gloss of authenticity, grit and historical continuity. They?re all gone now, along with the meticulous stylebook Thompson authored to maintain the project?s initially non-plastic character; it?s now clearly a suburban mall with a few semi-urban frills.

Only suburbanites think it?s part of the city.

Yet a genuine market seems an essential urban component; though London may have lost Covent Garden to festival marketplacehood, Berwick Street and a dozen others soldier on and thrive. Just so, in Boston we still have Haymarket.

If you catalog urban components in New York, London, San Francisco and Boston, you find they all have a Chinatown, an Italian district, ghettoes, ritzy sectors, markets, bohemian districts, artists? quarters, student territory, music, theatre and nighttime entertainment zones --and places people go looking for a little sin.

Boston holds its own in all but the last two categories.

Time was, Boston held its own in these too. Into the blocks around Washington, Stuart, Tremont and Boylston were packed so many entertainment venues that the streets hopped till 2am nightly. The broadway stage productions were there then as now, but they were a small part of the huge nightly draw. Never shuttered, Ben Sack?s cinemas played movies round the clock, richly supplemented by the magnetic draw of the porno palaces, the peepshows, the flashing neon glory of the Naked Eye, the Pussy Galore Stag Bar and a dozen others.

Sure there were hookers (even cathouses!); but the market hasn?t vanished, it?s just moved to the escort services and the suburbs, where it contributes nothing to Boston?s urban vitality. Naive folks think we can retrieve the vitality by re-?creating? the electric signs that went along with all this.

Didn?t happen in Times Square --a place few New Yorkers frequent-- and it won?t happen here.

Meanwhile, conventioneers flock to South Boston, grateful they?re away from home and hoping for a little you-know-what. And you know what? There ain?t none.

All that vacant space in the Seaport District walking distance from the Convention Center ...and no one?s thought of zoning it into a reprise of the Combat Zone??

It doesn?t take creativity; it?s a natural.





Specific enough, stellarfun?
Yes ablarc, specific enough.

The ACC will probably never let BC and the Gahdin host the conference basketball tournament because there are not enough titty bars in Boston.

I am not being facetious in saying that.

Does Boston need a sleaze, honky tonk section? Absolutely. At least San Francisco has kept most of its; the O'Farrell continues with shows that would be banned in Boston. Carol Doda's on Broadway (San Francisco's Broadway) unfortunately has become a sports bar, although it should be a national historic monument for the most titillating death in American history. As for several other clubs and bars on Broadway, they seem to be more at the mercy of the slippery slope of crumbling hillsides than the neighborhood sin patrol. And never in Boston would you see an Ivy-educated porn entrepreneur (B&D and S&M no less) buying a National Guard armory and converting it into a production studio. A Boston equivalent of the Folsom St Fair on Newbury St.? Never.

The problem of having sanitized Boston into an Ivory Snow purity (sans Marilyn Chambers) where could/would you locate a new raffish quarter where consenting adults can frolic and play?

Some other comments: Boston's new convention center will not be as transforming of its surroundings as has the Moscone in SFO, but is ahead of Javits in NYC.

A 'problem' with ethnic neighborhoods is they tend to lose their authenticity. Chinatown in San Francisco has become increasingly commercial and tourist-oriented.

San Francisco has done better at keeping its retail centered on Union Square than has Boston with Downtown Crossing.

I don't think tourists bother going to Canary Wharf, which I suppose you could say is London's equivalent to the future South Boston waterfront.
 
stellarfun said:
The problem of having sanitized Boston into an Ivory Snow purity (sans Marilyn Chambers) where could/would you locate a new raffish quarter where consenting adults can frolic and play?

How about Revere Beach?
 
Ron Newman said:
How about Revere Beach?
Too far to get home at 2am. Can you imagine the cab fare to your Back Bay hotel? You'd have to stay the night.

Seaport has the space and the location.

.
 
Ron Newman said:
stellarfun said:
The problem of having sanitized Boston into an Ivory Snow purity (sans Marilyn Chambers) where could/would you locate a new raffish quarter where consenting adults can frolic and play?

How about Revere Beach?

I think Revere Beach went condo long ago. But with nearby Wonderland going to the dogs, there's a possible space for an enterprising developer.

Regarding my previous citations of San Francisco 'scenes':

For the history of the O'Farrell, see
http://www.ofarrell.com/welframe.html
(No mention is made that one Mitchell brother killed the other.)

For the Folsom St Fair, see the FAQ page:
http://www.folsomstreetevents.org/fair-faq.php

For why Carol Doda's Condor club should be on the National Register of Historic Places, see:
http://mistersf.com/notorious/index.html?notcondor03.htm

For the National Guard armory, which is listed on the National Register of Historic Places, see:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/baycitynews/archive/2007/01/09/kink09.DTL

For those complaining about architectural banality in the seaport area, the Hilton hotel at Canary Wharf:
hilton-canary-wharf-hotel-london-img1-400.jpg
 
Ron Newman said:
How about Revere Beach?

Not one of your best ideas, Ron...Conventioneers aren't gonna ride out to the end of the Blue Line to see a set of fake titties...You may as well put a few clubs in Davis Square (about the same distance from the convention center, convenient to the Red Line)...

If Boston had the balls, there'd be a few gentlemen's clubs baked into the faux-city we're building on the South Boston Waterfront...It's the only rational place to sew these important threads of any truly urban fabric...
 
Getting back to the original subject of this thread, I wonder: if architects are willing to design mediocre buildings/spaces, and if developers are willing to pay for these designs, and if city agencies (BRA) are willing to approve the designs, how can the construction of mediocre architecture be prevented (and should it be)? In a free market democracy, is a city agency like the BRA responsible for policing the aesthetics of design? Is that any different than NIMBYs who force design changes based on their own subjective wishes/demands?
 
DevilDog said:
...if architects are willing to design mediocre buildings/spaces, and if developers are willing to pay for these designs, and if city agencies (BRA) are willing to approve the designs, how can the construction of mediocre architecture be prevented (and should it be)?
Presently this is done in historic districts. The aesthetic gauntlet you have to run is daunting indeed and it sometimes squelches creativity, thereby unintentionally promoting mediocrity. On the other hand, it prevents truly awful things from being built. The mechanism is a committee (when isn't it these days?).

In a free market democracy, is a city agency like the BRA responsible for policing the aesthetics of design?
Yes, and they'll tell you they're enforcing the people's will.

Is that any different than NIMBYs who force design changes based on their own subjective wishes/demands?
The historic district committees and the BRA will tell you without blinking that they aren't subjective and they have no wishes but to serve the public by applying objective standards based on truth.

You can believe them, and I have a bridge you might be interested in buying.
 
Beton Brut said:
If Boston had the balls, there'd be a few gentlemen's clubs baked into the faux-city we're building on the South Boston Waterfront...It's the only rational place to sew these important threads of any truly urban fabric...
The truth unvarnished.
 
As we all know, views and perceptions change with time. A design or plan that may be considered offensive today may not be considered as such many years from now (and vice versa). I would love to know how Boston?s Custom House Tower was perceived when it was first built. A 151 m tower built on top of a 4-story existing building amid a sea of buildings no higher than 5-10 stories. Did people recoil or applaud? Was it considered an out-of-place monstrosity or beautiful and progressive? Almost 100 years later, it is one of Boston?s most-loved buildings. Likewise, the repetitive, almost production-line-like architecture of Boston?s 3-decker neighborhoods of the early 1900s, which was reviled in the ?progressive? 1950s-1970s as mundane (mediocre?), is now celebrated as classic vernacular architecture. So time changes nearly everything. We built a far-from-mediocre City Hall in Boston four decades ago, which the majority of people now seem to hate. Would we be happier now if a less-striking (more mediocre) city hall had been built?
 
DevilDog said:
So time changes nearly everything. We built a far-from-mediocre City Hall in Boston four decades ago, which the majority of people now seem to hate. Would we be happier now if a less-striking (more mediocre) city hall had been built?
No, it would still be hated. People always hate all forty year old architecture (40-60, actually). Penn Station was in that age range when it bit the dust, and there were few who rose to defend it.

It's just historic inevitability.
 
Will people hate the Hancock Tower ten years from now? I hope not.
 
The problem isn't necessarily the age, it is the way it kept. A lot of these 40 year old structures that have been demolished weren't maintained properly, City Hall included (another problem with City Hall is that horrific plaza in front). Assuming that buildings such as the Hancock and Prudential are maintained properly, there shouldn't be any movement to replace them.
 
Very true, ablarc. That is oftentimes a much better alternative, especially if the building has any significance. However, if the owner let the building get to that condition in the first place, there is a good chance that they won't want to put the money into the building to give it an extensive rehab.
 
^ Time to sell it to a new and better owner.



(Like finding a good home for a pet.)
 
Back to strippers. Davis Sq.'s red line is no more convenient than Revere Beach's Blue Line. Revere Beach is already full of little dive bars, and I think that locals are more likely to go to Revere, with it's dog and horse tracks (and according to Deval...a Casino) for T&A, than Davis Sq. Also, Revere already has the Squire, and easy access to Rt. 1 strip clubs.

Also, I think more strip clubs would do just fine where they are now downtown/china town/theater district. If the Dainty Dot doesn't get developed, that whole area would make a great red-light district.
 
nico said:
I think more strip clubs would do just fine where they are now downtown/china town/theater district. If the Dainty Dot doesn't get developed, that whole area would make a great red-light district.
All true enough, though unrealistic when faced with Chinatown opposition. Doubtless the Zone disturbed the wives, as those clubs had substantial Chinese patronage.

At the Seaport, you can build a nice clean, easy-to-patrol district with its own population center for the strippers and their ilk to be close to their customer base at the Convention Center.

Throw in a couple of small, discreet hotels (rooms by the day, week or hour).
 
The author of this article is Boston Magazine staff writer, Joe Keohane.

"I love this town," says Keohane, former editor of the Weekly Dig, "but it kills me sometimes. Never in history has a city so enamored of its own greatness been so willing to settle for mediocrity when it comes to deciding what gets built where."
A laser dissection of Boston's present reality. Hope it doesn't eventually put us in a league with Buffalo, Cleveland or Baltimore.
 

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