County Re-alignment

[DominusNovus]

There's a few threads that touch on this, but not really directly. While this is more than just Boston, I figure the city would be such a huge part of any such idea that this is the best place for it.

My proposal is that the state should look at re-aligning the various counties in the state to more accurately match reality. The most obvious problem areas are those around Boston - the intersection of Suffolk, Norfolk, and Middlesex counties.

Now, I know that, in general, New England states have incredibly weak county governments so it doesn't make all that much of a difference at the moment. However, I figure that, if the county lines actually made sense, then, after the dust settles, it could be looked into whether or not to endow the new counties with some actual authority.

As a basic proposal:

Simple
- The western counties up to Worcester would stay the same. Possibly split Hampshire county between Hampden and Franklin; perhaps with a few fringe towns going to Berkshire and Worcester.
- Barnstable, Dukes, and Nantucket stay the same or possibly merged together.
- Bristol could be roughly the same, with a few towns shifting along the edges.

Complicated
- Suffolk county would, more or less, include the towns on the 128 beltway. Quincy, Milton, Dedham, Needham, Wellesely, Weston, Waltham, Lexington, Woburn, Stoneham, Melrose, Saugus, Lynn, Swamscott, as the outer edges.
- Norfolk would take the northern parts of Plymouth county (Hingham and its neighbors)
- Middlesex would shed a few border towns to Essex (such as the Readings and Wakefield) or gain a few to the north. Basically, I'd like to see all of 93 in one or the other. Middlesex might also shed a few of its western towns to Worcester.

Thoughts?

 

[George_Apley]

I like it, and it would lead to more political coordination in the metro-area. However, the cities and towns involved would put up a monumental political fight over the loss of power. The state would too. Giving power to counties requires the municipalities and the state to relinquish powers they've always had. New England is a provincial land. Last bastion and staunch defender of direct-democracy. It's rooted deeply in our regional culture. Woe to those who mess with Belmont's right to its own self-determination.

 

[Digital_Islandboy]

There's a few threads that touch on this, but not really directly. While this is more than just Boston, I figure the city would be such a huge part of any such idea that this is the best place for it.

My proposal is that the state should look at re-aligning the various counties in the state to more accurately match reality. The most obvious problem areas are those around Boston - the intersection of Suffolk, Norfolk, and Middlesex counties.

Now, I know that, in general, New England states have incredibly weak county governments so it doesn't make all that much of a difference at the moment. However, I figure that, if the county lines actually made sense, then, after the dust settles, it could be looked into whether or not to endow the new counties with some actual authority.

As a basic proposal:

Simple
- The western counties up to Worcester would stay the same. Possibly split Hampshire county between Hampden and Franklin; perhaps with a few fringe towns going to Berkshire and Worcester.
- Barnstable, Dukes, and Nantucket stay the same or possibly merged together.
- Bristol could be roughly the same, with a few towns shifting along the edges.

Complicated
- Suffolk county would, more or less, include the towns on the 128 beltway. Quincy, Milton, Dedham, Needham, Wellesely, Weston, Waltham, Lexington, Woburn, Stoneham, Melrose, Saugus, Lynn, Swamscott, as the outer edges.
- Norfolk would take the northern parts of Plymouth county (Hingham and its neighbors)
- Middlesex would shed a few border towns to Essex (such as the Readings and Wakefield) or gain a few to the north. Basically, I'd like to see all of 93 in one or the other. Middlesex might also shed a few of its western towns to Worcester.

Thoughts?

Suffolk County would be too large. Their Register of deeds would be ginormous and their superior court building I don't even want to try to fathom the work-load there.
A suffolk that large would need that big 20+ story building (Middlesex County Superior) that lies derelict in East Cambridge back in service again. I think it might make sense to have a Suffolk North and Suffolk South. The amount of building plans, and turn-over in terms of condos, and names changing on properties due to students in a Suffolk County that would take a huge building if all those places were in one. I do agree the counties in Massachusetts need to be redesign/redrawn since almost all of the county governments in Mass. were disbanded.
I def think Cambridge should be in Suffolk County. It makes no sense in Cambridge people going to serve jury duty in Woburn when Boston is much closer.

 

[DominusNovus]

I like it, and it would lead to more political coordination in the metro-area. However, the cities and towns involved would put up a monumental political fight over the loss of power. The state would too. Giving power to counties requires the municipalities and the state to relinquish powers they've always had. New England is a provincial land. Last bastion and staunch defender of direct-democracy. It's rooted deeply in our regional culture. Woe to those who mess with Belmont's right to its own self-determination.

I agree that the smaller cities and towns would be concerned, and I happen to agree with many of those concerns. I am by no means a regionalist as many are (such as supporting the idea of annexing the entire beltway).

Thats why my initial proposal is to just re-align the counties, without any other changes. Therefore, there's no real loss of power, since the counties still have no power. After that, I would suggest devolving power down from the state in a few cases, before taking power from the municipalities; both to give the locals more voice in those particular decisions, and to give the county governments time to learn how to actually do stuff.

 

[Roxxma]

Suffolk County would be too large. Their Register of deeds would be ginormous and their superior court building I don't even want to try to fathom the work-load there.

The current functions of the registries of deeds and court districts wouldn't have to change. They had already been turned over to the Commonwealth by the time Middlesex and Suffolk counties were abolished in the 1990s. There's no reason for the state not to continue its operation of the Courts and registries of deeds. As a matter of fact, it would make more sense that the remaining county operated registries of deeds (Operations of the Courts have been out of county hands for decades now) be turned over to the Commonwealth for the sake of standardization.

 

[Ron Newman]

I think moving deeds records from one registry to another, after a major realignment of counties, would be nightmarish.

 

[Digital_Islandboy]

The current functions of the registries of deeds and court districts wouldn't have to change. They had already been turned over to the Commonwealth by the time Middlesex and Suffolk counties were abolished in the 1990s. There's no reason for the state not to continue its operation of the Courts and registries of deeds. As a matter of fact, it would make more sense that the remaining county operated registries of deeds (Operations of the Courts have been out of county hands for decades now) be turned over to the Commonwealth for the sake of standardization.

I meant in the sense the amount of paper that a Suffolk County plus "Quincy, Milton, Dedham, Needham, Wellesely, Weston, Waltham, Lexington, Woburn, Stoneham, Melrose, Saugus, Lynn, Swamscott". That would include Cambridge, Somerville, Newtown, Watertown, etc.

That is going to generate a lot of paper on an annual basis. At least with Middlesex you have a few municipalities that will generate a lot of paperwork coupled with more sleepy towns like Wayland. I think a Suffolk North and Suffolk South would be needed.

 

[Digital_Islandboy]

I think moving deeds records from one registry to another, after a major realignment of counties, would be nightmarish.

Just put a cut off date. Records before Dec, 31, 1999 would be in old county seats. Charlestown & Brighton used to be in Middlesex before annexation by Boston/Suffolk.

Norfolk Country is still in business and is somewhat dynamic.

 

[Arlington]

Since counties have basically been abolished, I don't see how any problems matter enough to be worth the cost of the fix.

 

[omaja]

Yeah, I'm also not sure what a county realignment would accomplish? Unless we're talking about wholesale city-county government consolidations?

Now Boston annexing all of the cities within/around 128... that would be a game changer. Give the former cities something like the status municipal arrondissements have in Paris which affords local control over many of the items people would quibble about losing local control over.

 

[George_Apley]

^ He is talking about returning to a county government structure. The problem with that, or with Boston annexation is always going to be: how do you sell the cities and towns on that? What possible carrots are you waving at them to start a process that will ultimately remove power from the sacrosanct town-meeting? The county level scheme might be more feasibly done in phases, with powers from the state devolving first. Of course, getting the Commonwealth to pass this plan in the first place is almost laughable on its face.

As for annexation/some sort of arrondissement setup, the question is again, why the hell would cities and towns in the metro-area willingly give the Mayor of Boston budgetary power over their local affairs?

 

[underground]

Just about the only selling point would be consolidating administrative services to get some monetary and/or streamlining gains. That might look half way interesting to the Chelsea's of the world, but probably isn't much for the Brookline's.

I think the more interesting question is, what's the metro area going to look like in 10-20 years as demographics change. If empty nester's continue to leave the burbs for the city, young families continue staying in the city, more young professionals move in, and cheap housing options continue to move farther away from downtown, what's Boston's tax base like and what are the burb's tax bases like? Depending on the skew, consolidation could suddenly look a lot more interesting for the burbs.

 

[George_Apley]

^ Depends on the 'burb. I'm thinking of the 128-belt of towns with great school systems that are going to be destinations for upper-middle class families for decades. Short of something dramatic changing that calculus, they won't give up their status to join Boston for administrative benefits.

 

[bobthebuilder]

One of the biggest things that I think could be improved by a more regional authority is the taxi system, but could this be accomplished without annexation/realignment?

I think it was mentioned before in this thread, but the different towns around Boston, operate similarly to the Boroughs of NYC, and I think that transportation between the towns should operate as such. One regulatory authority overseeing the different cab companies, one color scheme, and standardized practices. It can be nearly impossible to hail a cab because you can't tell which ones are actually open, and they never like to take you from Boston -> Cambridge or Sommerville or Brookline because they can't (legally) get a return fare.

 

[George_Apley]

^ In the current system, it would either have to be a state agency like the MBTA with member municipalities, or run through some sort of partnership between the munis involved.

 

[davem]

^ In the current system, it would either have to be a state agency like the MBTA with member municipalities, or run through some sort of partnership between the munis involved.

A municipal pact of sorts was what I had in mind originally. A full on county would be too heavy and an unnecessary added layer of regulation.

Instead, an organization similar to the T (member cities vote to join, pay a fee to be in it) would be far better. Then we could have regional cooperation on taxis, hubway, and whatever else is either over complicated or over expensive doing as separate towns. It would probably save money in the end too; instead of Boston, Cambridge, Revere, Chelsea, Brookline, Somerville, etc all having their own hackney division, those resources can fund this organization.

Encompassing 128 would be too large, it would be more effective if it was just the urban ring cities.

 

[bobthebuilder]

^ In the current system, it would either have to be a state agency like the MBTA with member municipalities, or run through some sort of partnership between the munis involved.

I would think that making it a state run agency might be inefficient, similar to the MBTA. The state needs to worry about statewide issues, and the municipalities about local issues. So this makes the case for a regional governing authority, but as we've discussed there are seemingly more challenges with that then worth while. So a partnership might make the most sense, but how do you facilitate that? I'm not sure how the taxis are regulated in the other towns, but would it have to be a committee of the heads of each regulatory authority with an elected chair of said committee?

How about breaking out a division of the MassDot, for just the Boston Metro area that would take control of transportation within that area.

It seems to me that the transportation is something that really needs to be managed on a regional level, and is inefficient at the state level, and is too complicated for individual muni's to manage.

 

[Arlington]

Ok, well, if we could get less silliness on trash collection, and better allocation and procurement on fire, & police it would be worth it. County level government works great in Maryland (which has the purest version I'm aware of, and happens to be where I spent my first 18 years).

But, man, entrenched town interests are basically textbook perfect examples of petty special interests and I don't see how you get them to give up their interests in zoning and schools.

 

[underground]

^ Depends on the 'burb. I'm thinking of the 128-belt of towns with great school systems that are going to be destinations for upper-middle class families for decades. Short of something dramatic changing that calculus, they won't give up their status to join Boston for administrative benefits.

I don't know, man. I'm not saying we're headed back to a pre-WWII world, but there's a decided shift in housing patterns that could have a major impact on tax base, and therefor a major impact on school funding. Add that to cheap housing and cheap gas more or less drying up. But yeah, getting the Newton's and Brookline's as they currently are to join Boston as it currently is? Not happening.

 

[davem]

I don't know, man. I'm not saying we're headed back to a pre-WWII world, but there's a decided shift in housing patterns that could have a major impact on tax base, and therefor a major impact on school funding. Add that to cheap housing and cheap gas more or less drying up. But yeah, getting the Newton's and Brookline's as they currently are to join Boston as it currently is? Not happening.

Newton and Brookline wouldn't have to. They are very old, heavily urbanized suburbs. You could copy/paste Brookline into the middle of nowhere and it would be its own functioning city no problem.

Its more the post WWII sprawl towns that are going to have major issues if the demographic shift continues at its current pace. The older ones with transportation links and a dense village center (or multiple centers) will be just fine.