Crazy Transit Pitches

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is that yes people will own cars, but not needing the car every time you leave the house or not needing a car for every adult in the house (we'll be going from 2 cars to 1 car and an ebike when my car lease is up) makes a huge difference.
Exactly. My family and I live car light in an outer neighborhood. I would think this would still be possible if we moved out of the city. TOD and better bike infrastructure (especially as e-bikes take off) make car light living in the suburbs very possible.
 
The 0.25-0.5 mile radius around a CR station is a remote extension of the city. It should either be a walkable village/town center or a park-and-ride. Trying to mix the 2 is the worst of both worlds.
Garage parking spaces for commuters under/attached to TOD don't work for you? Why? They work in Beverly.
 
Putting your bike on the subway is probably the perfect (and quickest) way to get downtown for pretty much everyone on the Red Line. It's a real shame this will be less practical once trains are crowded at rush hours again.

Here's an idea: lengthen twenty or so red line sets to nine cars. The ninth car is set up as a bike cairrage, with racks for about forty bicycles. This ninth car has a few seats but no doors, and is only accessible via a walk-through gangway from the 8th car.
 
I don't know, that seems like it would mean lots of waiting for the "right train" to come along. I'd rather see a couple of bike racks at one end of each car. They do this in L.A., and it works quite well. The problem with bikes during crush load operating hours is that it is hard to keep the bike stable. It's not a big deal if the car is empty, but with lots of standing room passengers, it creates some injury risk. Make it easy to safely stow a bike and that problem goes away.
 
Here's an idea: lengthen twenty or so red line sets to nine cars. The ninth car is set up as a bike cairrage, with racks for about forty bicycles. This ninth car has a few seats but no doors, and is only accessible via a walk-through gangway from the 8th car.

Two-thirds of the Red Line terminals don't have loops (and I didn't think Ashmont's was used for regular turnarounds) so it'd be literally impossible to keep them on one specific end. I suppose you could have them all on, say, the south end of the train (last car going northbound, first going southbound, though good luck keeping that consistent, and have fun running the length of the platform with a bike when a 'backwards' set comes along) but then it'd be necessary for them to have cabs, and they'd have to outfit all of the southbound tunnels with screens a car length past the end of the platform so the operator could see when they're closing the doors.

HenryAlan's suggestion of bike racks seems far less operationally problematic, requires no new cars, and would be much easier, much cheaper, and seems to me far more sensible.
 
I don't know, that seems like it would mean lots of waiting for the "right train" to come along. I'd rather see a couple of bike racks at one end of each car. They do this in L.A., and it works quite well. The problem with bikes during crush load operating hours is that it is hard to keep the bike stable. It's not a big deal if the car is empty, but with lots of standing room passengers, it creates some injury risk. Make it easy to safely stow a bike and that problem goes away.
BART's new cars also have standardized racks in every car. From the mockup:
IMG_3011-640x426.jpg


That's pretty much a reference example to how it would work on Red/Orange/Blue. It was definitely a missed opportunity to not spec this as standard in the CRRC order, as it's increasingly becoming standard on other systems nationwide to have it as an every-car or every-other-car amenity. No need to marginalize by making a "special" bike car...just work it into the regular capacity mix like wheelchair berths became a regular thing. Hell, we already standardize it on Commuter Rail in the vestibules of every new and rebuilt bi-level car...2 bikes per vestibule x 2 vestibules per car = 4 bikes per car. Once this next new order set of Rotems retires some single-levels it should be made universal practice that every train is equipped with some rack-equipped coaches, even if it'll take another 1-2 fleet renewal pulses to make it an every-car thing. Once it's an every-car thing, there'll probably be no need anymore for the skunkworks-conversion specialty bike cars. And we better remember to order rack-equipped Type 10's when the time comes, because bikes on light rail is also increasingly becoming a standard amenity.

Besides, specialty bike cars...in addition to being inconvenient to hunt-and-peck for...are exclusionary by nature for segregating riders. If we truly want to increase bike shares, we need to--with all due flexibility--accommodate carry-on bikes at all times as much as interior capacity will allow. Every Commuter Rail vestibule end, every HRT car, and every single 'stretched' Type 10 next-gen LRV should sport interior racks for at least 2-3 bikes so this gets normalized. It's not a big ask as the space requirements per-car aren't large and they can be rigged up to seamlessly double as standee areas or wheelchair berths when not in use by bikes.
 
Here's an idea: lengthen twenty or so red line sets to nine cars. The ninth car is set up as a bike cairrage, with racks for about forty bicycles. This ninth car has a few seats but no doors, and is only accessible via a walk-through gangway from the 8th car.

Sounds like a disaster for dwell times.
 
Putting your bike on the subway is probably the perfect (and quickest) way to get downtown for pretty much everyone on the Red Line. It's a real shame this will be less practical once trains are crowded at rush hours again.

Here's an idea: lengthen twenty or so red line sets to nine cars. The ninth car is set up as a bike cairrage, with racks for about forty bicycles. This ninth car has a few seats but no doors, and is only accessible via a walk-through gangway from the 8th car.
Good transit practices from around the world suggest you want difficult to maneuver items like bicycles, strollers, wheel chairs as close to the doors as possible, with as little need to navigate through standing and seated passengers as possible.
 
In addition, the best way would be for the bike racks to always be in the same spot on every train set, so that you could clearly mark on each platform where cyclists would need to wait to board to make hanging up/locking up the bikes as fast and easy as possible.

The principle, by the way, is the same for wheelchair seating and strollers.
 
In addition, the best way would be for the bike racks to always be in the same spot on every train set, so that you could clearly mark on each platform where cyclists would need to wait to board to make hanging up/locking up the bikes as fast and easy as possible.

The principle, by the way, is the same for wheelchair seating and strollers.
Or the same location (door set) in every car, if demand is high enough. Spreads out the access and dwell time hit.
 
"Yellow Line" subway:

1: Take over the Braintree Branch of the Red Line from Columbia Junction
2: Stops at Andrew, Broadway and South Station Under Under.
3: Congress Street Subway, connections to State and Haymarket(?)
4: Tunnel under the Charles River
5: Stop at Navy Yard/Spaulding Hospital
6: Tunnel under the Mystic River
7: Stop at Chelsea Under
8: More subway on to Everett and possibly Malden Center Under.
 
"Yellow Line" subway:

1: Take over the Braintree Branch of the Red Line from Columbia Junction
2: Stops at Andrew, Broadway and South Station Under Under.
3: Congress Street Subway, connections to State and Haymarket(?)
4: Tunnel under the Charles River
5: Stop at Navy Yard/Spaulding Hospital
6: Tunnel under the Mystic River
7: Stop at Chelsea Under
8: More subway on to Everett and possibly Malden Center Under.

Um..okay...

I don't think existing Braintree Branch riders will be wild about their connections to the Orange, Green, and Silver lines being degraded (especially Green where you'd be inherently going from a directly-upstairs connection to all lines to a longer walk to some of the lines). Any of them who happen to be going to, say, Cambridge, will be extra angry. (Though the worst politics of a plan of this nature might be from the people losing their one-seat ride to their life-saving treatment at MGH, because that's the kind of framing that gets politicians motivated.) If you're talking about duplicating the Dorchester Tunnel from Columbia Junction to the vicinity of South Station you'd be baking in a massive tunneling cost plus duplicating three stations just to avoid outright service reductions (and one of those three is a massive transfer station).

Would the Congress Street Tunnel have stops other than in the vicinity of State and Haymarket? I'd suggest Post Office Square, in part because there's plenty of room there. Haymarket in particular is going to be tricky, with the confluence of the Orange and Green Line tunnels right there. The amount of space available around Canal Street is minimal between the GL tunnel, the OL tunnel, and the O'Neill Tunnel, meaning this new subway's going to have to be deeper, which makes the transfer problem worse. Not entirely sure what route you had in mind north of there, but to get to Charlestown and then Chelsea it'd be two water crossings at the going rate for those tunnels, then a choose-your-own-adventure of tunnel boring to Everett and points north.

Having presented the reflexive-NIMBY argument (though with a possibly-unrealistic lack of scandalized horror), I'll unpack this a bit.

I don't have any issue with the effort to provide rapid transit service to Charlestown, Everett, and Chelsea as such, some of which would fill the role last filled by the Charlestown Elevated. And I'll happily give credit to an idea for serving Everett that doesn't decimate service to the major bus terminal at Malden Center by branching the Orange Line south of there. The only "Crazy" that applies to that particular section of this Transit Pitch is the cost for that much tunneling. I'd argue it would require some good numbers from a properly-conducted study (of the kind that MassDOT has of late not been inclined to do without sandbagging) to justify it. Chelsea in particular would benefit significantly from a Green Line-based Urban Ring, which would be significantly cheaper, and it's likely that Everett could glom off that pretty well with better bus service feeding GL frequencies on the Ring. But while we can debate how best to serve these areas, there's definitely merit in serving them.

I have a bigger problem with the southern half of the proposal. Severing the Braintree Branch from the downtown core and Cambridge is a service reduction. Your pitch claws some of that back in terms of the downtown core and transfers to the other lines at the cost of duplicating a three-station stretch of the Dorchester Tunnel and an entire new subway down Congress that will by definition require longer transfers to at least two lines than the current transfers. (Orange would be longer at State than DTX because of where the stations are, Haymarket would have to be deeper because that's the only place there's room to shiv a tunnel.) That's still worse service than today for anyone who's not going to the immediate vicinity of State and/or Haymarket. But it's still better than the Cambridge problem, where what's now a one-seat ride turns into a forced transfer somewhere (JFK/UMass? I suppose at least it would end the mad scramble to the correct platform brought on by Malfunction Junction's bizarre design.) in exchange for a one-seat to what I assume (in the absence of studies) is a less-in-demand destination set.

As for the Congress Street Tunnel itself, I'm ambivalent. Congress Street is, of course, one of the more viable options for additional subway construction to alleviate congestion on the existing system. I'm just not sure how much this particular project would do that. It'd take anyone transferring to Braintree away from DTX (off of Orange, they'd have to go to State? Haymarket? One hopes Haymarket because at least they could be separated out from the Blue transfers at State) and away from Park (from Green, they'd have to go to Haymarket). But you'd add transfers from the DTX-Cambridge end of the current Red Line who would have to transfer somewhere (ideally JFK, probably South) so some of those gains would be lost. I do appreciate that building this would mean Baker and company couldn't keep pushing the ludicrous Congress Street alignment for the NSRL, so that I do like.

I like the idea of serving the northern communities you mentioned with better transit. That's a good goal. I don't even particularly hate the idea of doing it with a tunnel if the numbers support it and/or the costs can be kept down (cue laughter from anyone old enough to remember the Big Dig in all its expensive, disruptive glory). I don't hate the idea of a Congress Street subway. I just don't see why the Braintree Branch is part of this at all. Absent a major demand pattern I don't know about it, its forced inclusion dramatically drives up the cost (for duplicating the Dorchester Tunnel) and forces service reductions (and additional costs to partially mitigate them) on existing riders. Hell, it's Crazy Transit Pitches, why not go from Congress to somewhere that doesn't have service? Swing over to the Seaport and at least have something other than the dead-ending Silver Line? Find a way to swing around under the Fort Point Channel to get under Washington Street and provide a proper replacement for the El? Or my particular favorite, pop up somewhere around Cabot and eat the Fairmount Line? I think that would be a better menu of options to chew over without the drawbacks of a massive disruption to an existing service pattern.

(Oh, and in full sincerity, thank you for the post. This thread's been a little too quiet lately.)
 
I don't think existing Braintree Branch riders will be wild about their connections to the Orange, Green, and Silver lines being degraded (especially Green where you'd be inherently going from a directly-upstairs connection to all lines to a longer walk to some of the lines).

I have to beg to disagree that this is a service downgrade for folks on the Braintree branch. Even though they loose their one-seat ride to MGH, their service frequency doubles overnight. If they want to get to MGH, they can change to the Red Line at JFK, Andrew or Broadway.
 
Ooh, but that *is* a good idea.

Or just do a cut and cover under the Fairmount Line, preserving the RR right of way on top for a NEC bypass (I know freight has also been mentioned for the Fairmont Line, too).
 
Or just do a cut and cover under the Fairmount Line, preserving the RR right of way on top for a NEC bypass (I know freight has also been mentioned for the Fairmont Line, too).

I forgot about CSX's trackage rights, didn't I?

It's Crazy Transit Pitches, let's go with the tunnel option if it's to be Fairmount. 🙃
 
I have to beg to disagree that this is a service downgrade for folks on the Braintree branch. Even though they loose their one-seat ride to MGH, their service frequency doubles overnight. If they want to get to MGH, they can change to the Red Line at JFK, Andrew or Broadway.

I still think it is. Additional frequencies is a service increase, but anyone who doesn't presently have to transfer being forced to now transfer is not likely to see that as a benefit even if the trains on the branch itself run more frequently. It's still an additional inconvenience that doesn't presently exist. Not that it would necessarily mean it's a bad idea to do, mind you, just that the current riders who would be impacted probably wouldn't like it and might get shouty about it. (Which, again, there are tradeoffs in public transportation policy, sometimes people get the short end of the stick, I just tend to flag things where there might be significant political/PR problems that could harm or scuttle a project that perhaps could be avoided entirely. Or, as you suggest, possibly the greater frequencies on-net improve things enough to offset the impact to the people who now have to transfer, which is a selling point but not quite the same as not being a downgrade to those specific passengers.)
 
Or just do a cut and cover under the Fairmount Line, preserving the RR right of way on top for a NEC bypass (I know freight has also been mentioned for the Fairmont Line, too).
If you're talking about having to go over the Fairmount Line I presume you mean the part that goes to the Seaport? If so, there is already a bridge in place for that. It is used to access the Cabot Facility from the Red Line.
 
If you're talking about having to go over the Fairmount Line I presume you mean the part that goes to the Seaport? If so, there is already a bridge in place for that. It is used to access the Cabot Facility from the Red Line.

So, I had read Brattyle Loop's comment about eating the Fairmount Line around Cabot as going in the southward direction towards Hyde Park, and thus bringing real subway service to some very underserved neighborhoods in the city. You are right if he meant using it into the Seaport (which I want to say might not even be possible in a Crazy Transit pitch thread due to various issues). If we are going Southward, though, I'd have to think doing a two-track cut and cover would have to be dirt cheap as I can't imagine there being much utility work to do in the ROW. Maybe combine it with a track shutdown to also electrify and upgrade the top rail to support Amtrak/Acela and HSR (along with Regional Rail).
 
So, I had read Brattyle Loop's comment about eating the Fairmount Line around Cabot as going in the southward direction towards Hyde Park, and thus bringing real subway service to some very underserved neighborhoods in the city. You are right if he meant using it into the Seaport (which I want to say might not even be possible in a Crazy Transit pitch thread due to various issues). If we are going Southward, though, I'd have to think doing a two-track cut and cover would have to be dirt cheap as I can't imagine there being much utility work to do in the ROW. Maybe combine it with a track shutdown to also electrify and upgrade the top rail to support Amtrak/Acela and HSR (along with Regional Rail).

I was spitballing options for the south end with Fairmount as an idea. My initial idea was just to rapid transit-ify Fairmount, but I'd forgotten about the freight rights, so it couldn't cannibalize the surface ROW. Being Crazy Transit Pitches I'm fine with tunneling under the Fairmount surface ROW.

The Seaport commentary in my original post was unrelated to anything Fairmount. That was purely me looking at various potential places to send a Congress Street Tunnel other than Braintree. Not as ideal a Seaport Transit Pitch as Green + Silver in the Transitway, but that's a different thread.
 

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