Crazy Transit Pitches

Brattle Loop

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Thank you. And it would more sense if NSRL was implemented as EWNSRL with one tunnel across the harbor up the other part of the old GJ ROW through Eastie
I know this is Crazy Transit Pitches, but I think that a dedicated harbor crossing for the Eastern Route to access the NSRL (rather than using the main trunk via the current route) is going to fail the cost-benefit calculus pretty hard. Kicking Reading off to the Orange Line eliminates any conflicts with the Eastern at their junction north of Sullivan, and paying the going rate for grade crossing eliminations in Chelsea to speed up that leg of the current route is going to be way cheaper than a water crossing.

I've no particular objection to Eastern having its own leg off the NSRL, I just tend to doubt it can justify the cost over and above the main NSRL project cost.
 

Charlie_mta

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RE: the discussion on HRT to Everett. It could be done at least a lot closer to Everett by rerouting the Orange Line, not branching it. Here's my idea, with stations as orange circles. The Orange Line tracks from Sullivan to Wellington would be retained and serve as a non-revenue access to the Wellington Yards, which would remain in place. The large parking lot on th e east side of the Wellington station could be used for riverside residential/office development. The only political issue I see with this is the displacement of the Northern Strand Community Trail along the segment taken over by the OL reroute,

 

Brattle Loop

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RE: the discussion on HRT to Everett. It could be done at least a lot closer to Everett by rerouting the Orange Line, not branching it. Here's my idea, with stations as orange circles. The Orange Line tracks from Sullivan to Wellington would be retained and serve as a non-revenue access to the Wellington Yards, which would remain in place. The large parking lot on th e east side of the Wellington station could be used for riverside residential/office development. The only political issue I see with this is the displacement of the Northern Strand Community Trail along the segment taken over by the OL reroute,
So...elimination of the quite-new Assembly station to build a brand-new one (because it's probably impossible to swing over to Everett from the current alignment)? Addition of a stop serving basically only the casino and the shopping center, elimination of Wellington (surrounded by transit-oriented development) and its garage in favor of a harder-to-access alternative, and one that if anything has less density around it, adding yet another station further north (where density is screwed by the water to the west), then crossing into Malden and building a massive new viaduct because by that time you're on the wrong side of the Commuter Rail?

Forget displacing the trail, screwing over the big TOD hub at Wellington, throwing money away for a new Assembly station, then brute-forcing a line out of its way to (rather poorly) serve Everett to the detriment of the existing line will bring a massive political backlash. This one's probably dead on arrival.
 

Charlie_mta

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So...elimination of the quite-new Assembly station to build a brand-new one (because it's probably impossible to swing over to Everett from the current alignment)? Addition of a stop serving basically only the casino and the shopping center, elimination of Wellington (surrounded by transit-oriented development) and its garage in favor of a harder-to-access alternative, and one that if anything has less density around it, adding yet another station further north (where density is screwed by the water to the west), then crossing into Malden and building a massive new viaduct because by that time you're on the wrong side of the Commuter Rail?

Forget displacing the trail, screwing over the big TOD hub at Wellington, throwing money away for a new Assembly station, then brute-forcing a line out of its way to (rather poorly) serve Everett to the detriment of the existing line will bring a massive political backlash. This one's probably dead on arrival.
Actually I agree with you. All points are vaild. I wish they had built the OL here (as I show it) originally circa 1970 instead of the western route they implemented.
 

Brattle Loop

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Actually I agree with you. All points are vaild. I wish they had built the OL here (as I show it) originally circa 1970 instead of the western route they implemented.
Certainly would have been different. As a "what could have been" it's definitely an interesting thought exercise, even if it's prospects as a transit pitch are probably pretty poor even for Crazy Transit Pitches standards (mostly because that ship sailed when they built it the way they did in the 70s).
 

tysmith95

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A more reasonable transit pitch would be an infill somewhere between wellington and Malden Center.

Encore should have a bridge to Assembly.
 

Brattle Loop

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A more reasonable transit pitch would be an infill somewhere between wellington and Malden Center.

Encore should have a bridge to Assembly.
ROW is four-track width south of around Oakland Street in Malden, so probably enough room to shove a station in there somewhere without massive complications. Build it south of Medford Street with an entrance on Medford (or taking some of the light industrial on the west side of the ROW for a small parking lot and a bus driveway) would give easy access to a lot of surrounding density.

Agreed about the Assembly bridge, though I'd add that if Encore wants it, they can probably afford to pay for it too.
 

Tallguy

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Actually I agree with you. All points are vaild. I wish they had built the OL here (as I show it) originally circa 1970 instead of the western route they implemented.
If you extended GJ GL up from Sullivan, through Assembly, and possibly to Malden, that might not be half bad(or run a 3 min freq 50% each way)
 

Brattle Loop

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If you extended GJ GL up from Sullivan, through Assembly, and possibly to Malden, that might not be half bad(or run a 3 min freq 50% each way)
To where, though? The only available ROWs for anything coming out of Sullivan are the Eastern Route, the Orange Line/Western Route, the Saugus Branch off the Eastern at Everett, and the SL3. I can't see any significant obstacles to LRT on the Saugus Branch apart from the numerous grade crossings (which, to be fair, are only annoying rather than prohibitive on LRT), though whether it's worth potentially sacrificing frequencies on a Green Line-converted SL3 is something that would have to be considered. Anything along the Western is possibly physically impossible as long as the Reading Line track is there, and it's also probably redundant to the higher-capacity Orange Line trunk. If the GL's capacity was enough for the SL3 and the Saugus Branch, that would look fairly interesting, though.
 

Tallguy

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To where, though? The only available ROWs for anything coming out of Sullivan are the Eastern Route, the Orange Line/Western Route, the Saugus Branch off the Eastern at Everett, and the SL3. I can't see any significant obstacles to LRT on the Saugus Branch apart from the numerous grade crossings (which, to be fair, are only annoying rather than prohibitive on LRT), though whether it's worth potentially sacrificing frequencies on a Green Line-converted SL3 is something that would have to be considered. Anything along the Western is possibly physically impossible as long as the Reading Line track is there, and it's also probably redundant to the higher-capacity Orange Line trunk. If the GL's capacity was enough for the SL3 and the Saugus Branch, that would look fairly interesting, though.
I was responding to Charlie MTAs proposal to send the OL up to Sweetser then north on the old Saugus ROW to re-attach in Malden. I was suggesting ways to mitigate the loss of service for Assbly/Wellington by either splitting service between MC and S'van down both ROWs or by pushing the GL up to replace OL at Assby/Well.(added benefit- a cheap Rivers edge station and maybe push it into Medford as much as possible)
Its not as good as service out to Revere, but......
 

Brattle Loop

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I was responding to Charlie MTAs proposal to send the OL up to Sweetser then north on the old Saugus ROW to re-attach in Malden. I was suggesting ways to mitigate the loss of service for Assbly/Wellington by either splitting service between MC and S'van down both ROWs or by pushing the GL up to replace OL at Assby/Well.(added benefit- a cheap Rivers edge station and maybe push it into Medford as much as possible)
Its not as good as service out to Revere, but......
Got it, thank you. I'd call it significantly less than ideal, but not necessarily more so than the norm for the crazier end of Crazy Transit Pitches :)
 

Tallguy

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Getting across the river could be interesting. Probably involve a half mile of viaduct
 

The EGE

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A more reasonable transit pitch would be an infill somewhere between wellington and Malden Center.

Encore should have a bridge to Assembly.
That Edgeworth / Rivers Edge station has been proposed periodically since at least 1945. I'm not super bullish on it; you'd need a lot of TOD to make it worthwhile, since the existing neighborhoods could be serve with improved 97 and 108 buses. You need some space for low-density land uses like the city yard; I'd rather see TOD focused around existing transit like Malden Center south of Centre Street.
 

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