Crazy Transit Pitches

Its not my town , but my cousins once rural small quiet town. I live in the thick of the Urbanized Railroad Sprawl of North Jersey. The Classic Sprawl is focused around Automobiles , and encourages auto use over rail and Transit use. It accounts for 60% of the American population , although only 10% of the New England population lives in what I would call Auto Sprawl. New England has stuck to its Transit Sprawl roots which is more dense and controlled and promotes Transit / Alt Modes of Transportation over Auto. However most of these towns were built around the Railroads before 1930s...these days if Rail was built through area like that they would sprawled within 10 years...

Comm Ave at Wallingford Road in 1900:
CommAveWall1900%20.jpg

Today: http://goo.gl/maps/4SSgC

VS: Phillipsburg road in Goshen, NY (my hometown). http://goo.gl/maps/KTw2A

Both were farms.

One is sprawl, one is natural growth. Even in my home town if you scroll to the right you can see natural growth of the village with walkable neighborhoods with a corner store or two. The McMansions off Phillipsburg however require you to get in your damn car to go to your mailbox. And yes, I've watched people do it.
 
This. If you wish to preserve the wilderness, just don't build park-n-rides or stations where you don't want development.

I like a lot of your other ideas, Nexis4jersey. Any chance of a map?

I have to redo the Map...but in the mean time you can look at the New Jersey Transit / Metro North Master Plans , and no those Ridership numbers aren't inflated they're real. I should have the New England map by Saturday...

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=215312482559953359515.0004b90220720aded56a9&msa=0&ll=40.730608,-73.267822&spn=5.402253,13.392334

Line Name ------ Southern or Western Terminus---------Northern or Eastern Terminus----Length----Projected Ridership

Gateway Network --- Newark,New Jersey --- New York Penn Station --- 7.4 Miles --- 380,000+

West Shore line --- Hoboken,New Jersey ------ Newburgh,New York ---- 60 Miles --- 45,000

Old Piermont line --- Suffern,New York ------ Spring Valley,New York --- 7.4 Miles --- 6,400

Northwest Rail link --- Hamberg,New Jersey --- Ridgefield Park,New Jersey --- 60.2 Miles --- 25,000

Kingsland Branch --- Harrison,New Jersey --- Lydhurst,New Jersey --- 4.7 Miles --- 13,700

Pompton Branch --- Wayne,New Jersey --- Pompton JCT,New Jersey --- 6.7 Miles --- 5,200

West Side line --- New York Penn Station --- Spuyten Duyvil/Bronx,New York --- 9.6 Miles --- 18,000

Hell Gate line --- New York Penn Station --- New Rochelle,New York --- 19 Miles --- 35,900

West Trenton line --- West Trenton,New Jersey --- Bound Brook,New Jersey --- 28 Miles - 9,400

Lehigh Valley Extension of RVL --- Easton, Pennsylvania --- High Bridge,New Jersey --- 21 Miles --- 12,600

Lehigh Valley Extension of the Morristown line --- Easton, Pennsylvania --- Hackettstown,New Jersey --- 23 Miles --- 4,700

Lackawanna line --- East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania --- Port Morris,New Jersey --- 38 Miles --- 15,000

Amboy Branch (MOM Network)--- Bordentown,New Jersey --- South Amboy,New Jersey --- 33 Miles --- 45,000

Monmouth JCT line (MOM Network) --- South Brunswick,New Jersey --- Farmingdale,New Jersey --- 24.6 Miles --- 36,000

Matawan line (MOM Network) --- Freehold,New Jersey --- Matawan,New Jersey --- 12.6 Miles --- 15,800

Red Bank - Forked River Line (MOM Network) --- Forked River,New Jersey --- Red Bank,New Jersey --- 46 Miles --- 50,000

MOM Network Total --- 116 Miles --- 146-150,000 Daily Passengers

Mount Holly Branch -- Pennsuaken,New Jersey --- Mount Holly,New Jersey --- 14 Miles --- 12,000

Glassboro Line --- Glassboro,New Jersey --- Camden,New Jersey --- 18 Miles --- 25,000

Millville Extension --- Mllville,New Jersey --- Glassboro,New Jersey --- 23.6 Miles --- 15,600

Pennsville Branch --- Pennsville,New Jersey --- Woodbury,New Jersey --- 27 Miles --- 6,900

West Trenton Branch --- Trenton,New Jersey --- West Trenton,New Jersey --- 5.2 miles --- 13,800

Beacon / Maybrook line --- Beacon,New York ---- Shelton, Connecticut --- 74.8 Miles - 6,500

Cape Cod line --- Cape Cod,New Jersey --- Winslow,New Jersey --- 54 Miles --- 4,300

Current lines --- Length --- 2012 & 2030 Ridership Projections

Northeast Corridor --- 59 Miles --- 65,000 (2012) > 145,000 (2030)

North Jersey Coast line --- 45 Miles --- 20,300 (2012) > 45,700 (2030)

Atlantic City line --- 67 Miles --- 3,500 (2012) > 8,400 (2030)

RiverLINE --- 33 Miles --- 11,000 (2012) > 35,000 (2030)

Raritan Valley Line --- 44 Miles --- 15,000 (2012) > 30,000 (2030)

Morristown line --- 60 Miles --- 52,000 (2012) > 84,000 (2030)

Montclair - Boonton line --- 27 Miles --- 21,000 (2012) > 54,700 (2030)

Main line --- 29 Miles --- 9,700 (2012) > 24,000 (2030)

Bergen County line --- 14 Miles --- 6,200 (2012) > 17,800 (2030)

Gladstone Branch --- 21 Miles --- 4,200 (2012) > 6,100 (2030)

Port Jervis line --- 64 Miles --- 5,800 (2012) > 15,000 (2030)

Hudson line --- 68 Miles --- 49,000 (2012) > 75,000 (2030)

Harlem line --- 82 Miles --- 54,000 (2012) > 90,000 (2030)

New Haven line --- 60 Miles --- 118,000 (2012) > 160,000 (2030)

New Cannan Branch --- 6 Miles --- 4,200 (2012) > 7,000 (2030)

Danbury Branch --- 23 Miles --- 3,200 (2012) > 12,400 (2030)

Waterbury Branch --- 27 Miles --- 700 (2012) > 4,800 (2030)
 
But I wasn't referring to that, but to the notion of creating new subdivisions where no utilities existed previously. That means you have to bring the grid out there, which is expensive. TOD should really be about infill or development where there's already infrastructure of some sort, to make more efficient use of it.

This.
 

Plaistow strikes me as an exceptionally bad terminus. Doubly so since it's on the Downeaster Corridor - run it up to Exeter instead. Nothing between Plaistow and Exeter qualifies for a stop - honestly, I'm somewhat skeptical that Plaistow itself merits a stop.

Haverhill, Plaistow(?) Exeter, Newmarket, Durham/UNH, Dover, Somersworth(?), Rochester is a much better line extension - although it's hard to argue that anything past Exeter is still a 'commuter' rail operation. It'd be much better served as part of an NH network rather than anything MBTA. Were it me, I'd figure out how and what needs doing to 4-track Haverhill and make it a cross-platform transfer point. Hell, you could even go the other direction - outbound the line from Portsmouth over the Greenland/Great Bay ROW and up to Rochester or down to Haverhill for the transfer to Boston.

I'm not going to rehash the argument we've been having about HFD-PVD, but know that I think the craziest thing of all about your map is that you're still stubbornly refusing to acknowledge those two cities need a connection and that's all I'm going to say about that.
 

Seeing this laid out geographically now, I'm even more surprised that you aren't including a PVD-HFD link; you already have most of eastern Connecticut covered by CR; heck, you could even run it indirectly via Norwich by running tracks down from Providence through Coventry to Plainfield.

Not trying to rehash the argument, it just jumped out at me is all.

Also, just throwing a couple of ideas out there:
-add in a Grand Junction connector, so that some of your trains from out west can be run into North Station
-extend a branch of the Franklin line down to Woonsocket: tap into a Northern RI-BOS commuter market
 
Theres a limit to how many lines Googles allows , so I couldn't fit the New NEC in...this was also a Regional Rail map and not High Speed or Intercity Rail Map.
 
Seeing this laid out geographically now, I'm even more surprised that you aren't including a PVD-HFD link; you already have most of eastern Connecticut covered by CR; heck, you could even run it indirectly via Norwich by running tracks down from Providence through Coventry to Plainfield.

Not trying to rehash the argument, it just jumped out at me is all.

Also, just throwing a couple of ideas out there:
-add in a Grand Junction connector, so that some of your trains from out west can be run into North Station
-extend a branch of the Franklin line down to Woonsocket: tap into a Northern RI-BOS commuter market

Is there a movement to extend the Franklin line into RI , I know Milford has some traction.
 
Is there a movement to extend the Franklin line into RI , I know Milford has some traction.

I think I saw it way back when in the List of Suggestions That Anyone Could Make To The T that included a Red Line loop of South Boston and monorails (plural). So, in all likelihood, no probably not, at least not that I'm aware.

I could be wrong, of course, but still, I am not aware of any such movement.

As for the line limit on Google Maps: yep. Ran into that several years ago. Reason number 596 why Google Maps sucks.

One solution I have used successfully is just to create multiple maps (ie. Future MBTA Part I, Future MBTA Part II, etc), and open them all at the same time. It's a tad unwieldy, and Google Maps is yet more buggy when you do it. But it does basically work.
 
So this is not what I would have thought would be my first Crazy Transit Pitch... I have about a half dozen other complete proposals, most of which are quite a bit less crazy than this. I'll get them up here eventually, but for now, here's Riverside's Crazy MBTA.

As I described to Nexis4Jersey, this map has to be broken up into multiple parts and viewed simultaneously. Because Google Maps isn't working the way it's supposed to, I can't get part 3 to upload. Fortunately, there are only a few lines included on that map, which I will list later on.

In any case, here are parts 1 and 2:
Part 1: http://goo.gl/maps/Tk5uN
Part 2: http://goo.gl/maps/2F2ui

You'll need to save each part to "My Places," and then open them simultaneously. Or download them to Google Earth and open them together there.

Basically, I converted the inner D to Blue and filled out the system from there. I basically went as far out of the box as I felt like going, because why not? Only two other systems that I've developed are crazier than this; one is very elevated heavy, and the other was a what-if scenario that involved the Great Depression never happening, there being a heavy rail craze in Boston in the 1920's with multiple companies building competing lines, and the Tremont Street Subway being abandoned. Basically I wanted to create a London Underground for Metro Boston.

But aside from those two, this is my craziest set of proposals ever, and intentionally so. I freely admit that I have taken cues from several proposals posted here and elsewhere, though I believe I present a unique combination.

Service plan (more or less):

Red Line (HRT):
  • A: East Lincoln - Braintree via Park
  • B: East Lincoln - Braintree via Massachusetts
  • C: Boston Post/128 - Roslindale Village via Park (and a not shown Dorchester Avenue subway)
  • D: Boston Post/128 - Roslindale Village via Massachusetts

Orange Line (HRT):
  • West Medford - West Roxbury
  • Melrose Highlands - Readville
  • Northgate - Mattapan

Blue Line (HRT):
  • Lynn - Reservoir/Chestnut Hill Avenue (peak express)
  • Everett Square - Harvard (local)

Green Line (LRT):
  • A: Riverside - Woburn Center (peak express on Beacon)
  • B: Needham Junction - Watertown (local on Beacon)
  • C: Ashmont - Davis via Jamaica Plain and Charlestown
  • D: Ashmont - Bedford via Grove Hall
  • L: Dudley Loop (Dudley - Grove Hall - Ashmont - Morton - Forest Hills - Jamaica Plain - Huntington - Ruggles - Dudley, bidirectional)

Airport Line (HRT)
  • A: Watertown - Airport
  • B: Watertown - Dudley via South Boston (Dudley extension from Andrew via Uphams Corner not shown, curse you, Google Maps)

Crosstown Line (LRT)
  • North: Boston College - Northgate via Sullivan and Chelsea (Northgate extension also not shown)
  • South: Boston College - Northgate via Inner Belt and Chelsea

Indigo Line (EMU)
  • University Park/128 - North Station via Congress
  • Riverside - Charles/MGH via Commercial

Particular craziness I wish to comment on:
-The B Line is dead, long live the B Line: The Crosstown Line picks up the local Commonwealth Avenue traffic, which can then transfer to the Blue, Airport or Indigo Lines to head into the city. Brookline/Allston/Brighton residents who don't want the local service can walk to Beacon and take a peak express A line, or walk to Washington/Warren/Winchester Streets and hop on the Airport Line, or take the Indigo Line.
-The Riverside branch of the Indigo Line branches off of the MassPike into a subway under N. Beacon St, Brighton Ave and Commonwealth Ave to better serve Allston.
-The two branches of the Indigo Line (colored slightly differently on the map) actually only meet at South and North Stations, taking different alignments through downtown. The Indigo Lines run on 10 min peak headways, 20 min off peak. And yes, parts of the MassPike have been reclaimed to quadruple track the B&M inside of 128. Commuter and intercity rail express inside of 128. Headways are a little less frequent between Readville and University Park/128, since that section can only be triple tracked; some trains are short turned at Readville.
-Not shown is the Dorchester Avenue subway, which connects Andrew with Ashmont. This alignment was originally considered way back when and I've always wanted to use it. Stations at Crescent, Savin Hill (west of the current, which is abandoned), Freeport, Adams, Melville, King and Ashmont. Braintree trains still stop at the current JFK/UMass, in order to serve the school. The Dorchester Avenue alignment allows for a few more stops and runs more directly through the community.
-The Green Line peak expresses stop only at Reservoir, Coolidge Corner and Kenmore, before continuing on normally. The locals may or may not make all the stops the C currently makes; haven't decided yet.
-The Blue Line expresses stop only at Reservoir/Chestnut Hill Avenue (connected by a ped walkway a la Winter Street Concourse), Kenmore, Charlesgate, and Charles/MGH, before continuing on normally. And yes, the Highland Branch is triple tracked in here. And no, I have no idea how I would swing that. :p
-The Airport Line: I should probably make it LRT. But I want it to be HRT so badly. It connects Longwood Medical, the Pru, the John Hancock, Back Bay Station, South Station, the Seaport and the Airport. I have to think that would give it the ridership to be fully HRT.
-The Green Line under Washington Street is a subway, with stops at Dudley, Melnea Cass, Northampton, West Dedham, East Berkeley and Tufts Medical Center. A branch of the subway also runs to Ruggles and then to Huntington Avenue, where it continues until a portal at Heath Street. After Dudley/Heath, these lines are street running.

While I would certainly be in favor of a massive stimulus project designed to put vast numbers of Massachusettsers to work building all of the infrastructure needed to make this plan a reality, I, of course, do not mean to seriously advocate this system as a long-term goal of the MBTA. This is as much an exercise as anything else. Taking a single idea, in this case, "Blue eats D" and developing a logical, balanced system out from that, is something I really enjoy doing.

That said, I think there are some crazy proposals worth some consideration here. Using several "sickle" shaped lines instead of an Urban Ring (Blue to Harvard and Everett, Airport Line to Dudley), for one. Connecting Watertown to Downtown by going across Brookline, as opposed to down the MassPike or Commonwealth. Disconnecting the B line from the Central Subway. Running Blue expresses at least to Kenmore to relieve Central Subway crowding. Not going all the way up to 128 north of Boston. (There's a lot more suburbia up there than there is between Boston and 128 to the south.)

Thoughts?
 
Very cool, Riverside. I just tried overlaying my plan with yours and it appears that almost every route overlaps. Clearly we're on to something. ;)

The only parts I'm not so keen on are altering some of the existing routes (i.e. rerouting the current B Line over to Cambridge or eliminating the Ashmont branch of the Red Line) and having so many branches within a relatively small land area (the bazillion Green Line routings, the split Crosstown and Red Lines, six branches on the Orange Line...). I feel like branching only works well in outlying areas where it isn't as easily confused which line goes where. Having split service in the core depending on hours or alternating trains is likewise a tricky enterprise.

Just to show you what I mean by our maps overlapping significantly:

Here's my latest MBTA rapid transit for light and heavy rail (click for large map).


And a new tri-state agency for the Southeastern New England Regional Express Rail Network. (Current CR network is thick lines, future extensions are thin lines.)
 
Thanks, Omaja. I can't be sure how to take your comment about overlapping routes, so I'm going to go out on a limb and take it as a compliment! :)

But your point is well taken. My feeling is that there are only so many sensible transit corridors in the Metro Boston area, and so the question often is how to link them up. (For example, look at the MTA's 1940's plan to extend service northwest of Boston and compare it to modern-day proposals to extend the Red Line to Arlington and Lexington.)

I must admit, though, that my Crosstown Line was largely inspired by your Line 11, much more so than I was consciously aware at the time. Mea culpa. (Though, to be fair, my Crosstown Line serves Commonwealth, while yours serves the old A line route, mine includes a northern branch to service Union Square and northern Charlestown, and mine takes a slightly different route through Revere. But still, those differences are largely cosmetic.)

Quick sidenote: just to be clear, the Ashmont Branch is indeed eliminated, but is also replaced by a subway that serves almost the exact same locations as the current stations, and is in a better position to become a "spine" for the community of Dorchester. Clearly, that is possibly the most insane of all of the proposals in this map, and it is not one I'm likely to ever seriously advocate. That said, were it possible to do, I think it would provide better service than the current alignment.

I hear ya regarding the branching. But I think your argument works better for some situations than others:

Green Line: the way I look at it, there are 4 branches/"lines" (plus a non-downtown loop service). 4 southern branches feed into a downtown subway and then split out in 4 northern branches. There aren't any confusion permutations of service (unlike the Red Line, see below), there isn't any lack of clarity about downtown termini (unlike today), it's just straightforward "A-A, B-B, C-C and D-D."

Crosstown Line: I see what you mean. The way I had envisioned it, the Crosstown Line would be used more for local travel and feeding into larger (HRT) radial lines than long-distance travel. Almost like a half dozen bus lines strung together and converted to LRT. So it seemed to me that ease of understanding was somewhat less important since local riders would be familiar with the service anyway. To put it another way, it's not like most users (whom I assume to be largely local folk) confuse the 86 bus with the 87. But I see what you mean.

Orange Line: Similar deal to the Green Line; 3 lines. I'm not sure I'm really convinced that people would be that confused by that. Someone knows where they're going, they find it on the map, they look at the train they need to get there, and they take it. Folks who take the Green Line from North Station to Newton Center (or vice-versa) today are able to figure it out without explicit information from the T on how to do it, so I'm not sure a tri-Orange Line would be too confusing.

Blue Line: I agree that short-turning Lynn trains is more confusing than it's worth.

Red Line: I'll bite. As is, it's sorta kinda really totally ridiculous. Absolutely should be two different colored lines. (Actually, after posting, I realized that I could've made one more turn of the screw and ran the East Lincoln line down the Alewife Brook Pkwy and then down Concord Avenue to meet up with the other line at Harvard. Then there would be almost no shared trackage between the two services! EDIT: Ah, and you had the same idea with your Line 8! Again with the overlapping routes! ;))

The best solution to all of these problems, though (and I totally admit that they are, to varying degrees), I think, is the "New York City solution"; use numbers and letters to specify particular services and unite common services under a single color. So just as all three IRT Seventh Avenue services (the 1, 2, and 3) are colored red, all "Tremont Street Subway" services are colored green, all "Washington Street-Southwest Corridor" services are orange, etc. On maps and diagrams, each service would be shown with a different line, à la the NYC Subway map. People refer to services by their number or destination (or name, I guess; some are easy [Riveside Line, Melrose Line], others, not so much: [Wonky Line that goes to Harvard?]).

Obviously you can't do this practically on a Google Map, but I think it could be done, were Boston to develop such a complicated transit system.

Anyhow.

As usual, Omaja, your maps are a pleasure to view. Couple things I'm curious about. (After having typed these questions out, they sound smarmy. I really don't mean it like that at all; it's really just honest curiosity.)

What was your thought in branching 7A to Reservoir? Are you looking to have a better connection to Longwood Medical Area?

Didn't you have a more ambitious, "through/under the North End" routing for your Indigo Line before? What changed your mind?

This isn't so much honest curiosity as it is observation, but it seems to me that Cambridge and Somerville have really fantastic crosstown rapid transit networks (seriously, though, it's like a net up there, it's awesome), while Roxbury and Dorchester really miss out.

Love the updated RER map, though I'm curious why RIDOT RER E-4 doesn't go all the way down to Kingston, if not Westerly. Any thought on adding a Springfield network? Also, what's the thinking behind A-X, the Foxboro branch? PVD-FOX service, using Patriot Place as a Park-n-Ride for Providence commuters?
 
And a new tri-state agency for the Southeastern New England Regional Express Rail Network. (Current CR network is thick lines, future extensions are thin lines.)

No love for Springfield or Connecticut, Omaja? (Also, why not make the north half of the yellow line an extension of the green one, and roll the south half into the red? That severe U-shape doesn't really look good to me...)

I don't think a Worcester-Springfield Line is all that crazy... certainly, to me, it has a much larger day 1 value proposition than South Coast by an order of magnitudes, and if I had easy access to any kind of ridership numbers for the Peter Pan Bus or any other bus service connecting the two, I'm certain they'd support that. (Hell, express motorcoaches are already running between the two and that's a hell of a lot more than I can say for South Coast!)

Of course, that would have the net effect of creating an agency spanning four or even five states... though that may not be such a bad thing.
 
It depends , Diesel Light Rail can work with Low to Medium Densities and spread out populations. Where as Electric Light Rail requires Medium to High Densities to work , low densities won't get a good return investment. Subways work best with High to Ultra High Densities...or too connect Semi Dense areas with Ultra Dense areas.

so what does this formula put a city like lynn whose population density is about 15k/per square mile when excluding lynn woods. I mean to rely on busses and the commuter rail seems to be insane if you ask me when 7 square miles holds 100k people you would think the blue-line cutting through the city would be a no brainer..
 
Thanks, Omaja. I can't be sure how to take your comment about overlapping routes, so I'm going to go out on a limb and take it as a compliment! :)

It is a compliment!

I hear ya regarding the branching. But I think your argument works better for some situations than others:

The best solution to all of these problems, though (and I totally admit that they are, to varying degrees), I think, is the "New York City solution"; use numbers and letters to specify particular services and unite common services under a single color. So just as all three IRT Seventh Avenue services (the 1, 2, and 3) are colored red, all "Tremont Street Subway" services are colored green, all "Washington Street-Southwest Corridor" services are orange, etc. On maps and diagrams, each service would be shown with a different line, à la the NYC Subway map. People refer to services by their number or destination (or name, I guess; some are easy [Riveside Line, Melrose Line], others, not so much: [Wonky Line that goes to Harvard?]).

Obviously you can't do this practically on a Google Map, but I think it could be done, were Boston to develop such a complicated transit system.

I was thinking New York is almost an example of what not to do. It is an incredibly confusing system at first glance with the different letters and numbers that have common colors (though a little digging below the surface reveals more logic than one might first think).

The thing with having so many alternate routes and branches is that each one will be shortchanged to distribute traffic while, in most cases, the individual branches can likely handle much more frequent headways. That's why I'm a bigger fan of the continental Europe systems where lines are given different color/number combinations and, for the most part, follow unique routes.


What was your thought in branching 7A to Reservoir? Are you looking to have a better connection to Longwood Medical Area?


Basically, since traffic tends to drop off after Brigham, branching 7 to Reservoir provides better rush hour support for Line 6 as an alternate way to get to the busiest stations along the current D Line route.

Didn't you have a more ambitious, "through/under the North End" routing for your Indigo Line before? What changed your mind?

It could go either way, but I'm basically thinking the path of least resistance is along Atlantic Ave/Commercial Street.

This isn't so much honest curiosity as it is observation, but it seems to me that Cambridge and Somerville have really fantastic crosstown rapid transit networks (seriously, though, it's like a net up there, it's awesome), while Roxbury and Dorchester really miss out.

It's just a reality born from their more gridlike layouts. Also the crosstown routes in Roxbury and Dorchester are much shorter which would probably be better and more cheaply served by buses

Love the updated RER map, though I'm curious why RIDOT RER E-4 doesn't go all the way down to Kingston, if not Westerly. Any thought on adding a Springfield network? Also, what's the thinking behind A-X, the Foxboro branch? PVD-FOX service, using Patriot Place as a Park-n-Ride for Providence commuters?

The RIDOT network could definitely be extended - I'm not entirely sold on a lot of those extensions as it is. It's a lot of small-to-medium sized communities without a whole hell of a lot of demand as it is.

Springfield would be covered by a separate entity as intercity rail, not RER-style.

A-X and C-X are only for special events - mainly Pats games.

No love for Springfield or Connecticut, Omaja? (Also, why not make the north half of the yellow line an extension of the green one, and roll the south half into the red? That severe U-shape doesn't really look good to me...)

I don't think a Worcester-Springfield Line is all that crazy... certainly, to me, it has a much larger day 1 value proposition than South Coast by an order of magnitudes, and if I had easy access to any kind of ridership numbers for the Peter Pan Bus or any other bus service connecting the two, I'm certain they'd support that. (Hell, express motorcoaches are already running between the two and that's a hell of a lot more than I can say for South Coast!)

Of course, that would have the net effect of creating an agency spanning four or even five states... though that may not be such a bad thing.

This is an electrified express network for Greater Boston-Providence a la the S-Bahn in Germany or RER in France. Western Massachusetts and Connecticut would be outside the scope of such an operation and more in the realm of intercity rail a la France's SNCF or Germany's ICE.
 
The RIDOT network could definitely be extended - I'm not entirely sold on a lot of those extensions as it is. It's a lot of small-to-medium sized communities without a whole hell of a lot of demand as it is.

The RIDOT network shouldn't be characterized by hitting a lot of small/medium communities. The point of the RIDOT network is that, should it be made fully operational with lines to Woonsocket, Westerly, and Newport - all the lines officially under consideration - then the entire state will be networked and nobody will be more than 10 minutes from a commuter rail station, with the possible exception of some outlying homes in the northwest quarter of the state. That's huge, and that's doable because Rhode Island is a state 50 miles long by 35 miles wide.

Even when Newport is torpedoed by the South Coast money pit, most of the state will still enjoy '10 minutes or less to the train.' And if PVD-HFD commuter rail gets picked up, that'll close the hole in the northwest corner.

And yes, the lines are going to have to pass through some small towns to do that, but I don't see there being 40 different rail stations for 39 different towns. As long as we keep our eyes on the prize - the entire state could be wired into a network in a dozen stations or less, split across two lines, and five of those stations exist already.

This is an electrified express network for Greater Boston-Providence a la the S-Bahn in Germany or RER in France. Western Massachusetts and Connecticut would be outside the scope of such an operation and more in the realm of intercity rail a la France's SNCF or Germany's ICE.

I do believe that Springfield is just as much a part of Greater Boston as Providence is, and you will never convince me otherwise.

I brought up New Haven mostly because I'm of the opinion that the best lesson we can learn from New York's inter-agency throwdowns is that we should be trying to get everyone under the same management tree. While part of me loves the idea of special RIDOT or RIRR decorated trains, the larger part of me would prefer to see all New England commuter operations forcibly merged into a New England Railroad Administration.

I think the best lesson we can learn from the ceaseless infighting between the MTA and the MTA is that the less cooks we have stirring the sauce, the better off we'll be.
 
I do believe that Springfield is just as much a part of Greater Boston as Providence is, and you will never convince me otherwise.

I think the best lesson we can learn from the ceaseless infighting between the MTA and the MTA is that the less cooks we have stirring the sauce, the better off we'll be.

Springfield is nearly twice as far from Boston (90 miles) as Providence (50 miles) with a lot less development/population linking the two. Boston and Providence form one CSA while Springfield is its own MSA and more closely linked to Hartford than Boston.

I certainly agree, though, that a united regional rail operator would be ideal. SNCF operates the RER (most of it anyway), suburban and intercity trains in Paris and throughout France. I could definitely see the same model working well in the US. If only Amtrak were given proper funding with regional subsidiaries to manage the operations efficiently. That wouldn't change the scope of services for an RER network which would be Boston-centric, while lines like Boston-Springfield would be intercity.
 
Now, since I'm on a Green Line kick, time for something crazy!

The B Line could, conceivably, only go HRT if we elevated or buried it. Elevating it would result in plenty of people clutching pearls about the horror of a new El, but burying it means you can't really go past Packard's Corner and BC will sue the hell out of you for loss of transit.

Here's the thing, though. There's already an active ROW that I believe is in use as non-revenue moves from Cleveland Circle/Reservoir over to the B line at Chestnut Hill Avenue. So, we have an opportunity where we could do something like HRT the B line out to Packard's Corner, then punch through Union Square Allston to New Brighton Landing or Oak Square (I don't think there's a good ROW between the two, so it's one or the other) and start calling it the "A" Line again. Shift the B designation over to the current C Line, and connect Boston College - Chestnut Hill Avenue to Cleveland Circle. (Now you have a B-Line that goes to Boston College via Beacon Street. Very simple, very easy!)

Unfortunately, you'd have to bustitute service between Packard's Corner and Chestnut Hill Avenue, but such is life. To make up for that bustitution, we could send a new Green Line branch down Boylston Street to Chestnut Hill Village, replacing the 60 bus.
 
I really think that elevating the B Line out to the hill just before Warren Street would work quite well. Eliminating rail service along the densely populated corridor between Packard's Corner and Chestnut Hill Ave is a nonstarter of epic proportions.

I've probably showed this pic before, but this is what I see along the Comm Ave corridor:
886496269_57fa95923b.jpg
 

Back
Top